[PASSED] Recognising Academic Qualifications and Skills

[Markanite]

Recognising Academic Qualifications and Skills

Category: Education and Creativity | Category: Educational| Proposed by: Markanite

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Recognising Academic Qualifications and Skills

The World Assembly,

Recognising that many professionals seek to work across borders and would strongly benefit from international, mutual recognition of their qualifications;

Aware, however, that - in the absence of comprehensive regulation - some of these professionals may be denied access to the international job market for arbitrary reasons such as where they originally plied their trade; and

Convinced that fair, clear and non-arbitrary procedures for the international recognition of job titles and responsibilities must be enacted with due haste;

Hereby enacts the following provisions:

1. Every member state ("member state" is defined as any member nation or political subdivision which oversees professional qualifications) shall designate a singular body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practice a particular profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make 'official' determinations in that member state.
   
2. Each regulator must:
   
   1. identify those professions which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without profession-specific qualifications (hereinafter "regulated professions");
   2. for each regulated profession, identify those overseas profession-specific qualifications which are as rigorous (meaning as thorough and as detailed) as, or more rigorous than, the equivalent qualifications in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIb qualifications"); and
   3. regularly update the lists of regulated professions and Article IIb qualifications, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.
3. No person may be barred from practicing a regulated profession or regulated vocation in a member state, simply because they do not hold the necessary qualifications for that job, if:
   
   1. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
   2. they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.
4. Where a person seeks to practice a regulated profession in a member state, but their overseas qualifications are determined by that member state's regulator not to be Article IIb qualifications, they may appeal that determination to that regulator. Such appeals must be conducted fairly and without prejudice.
5. Member states may organise or subdivide their regulator offices to complement their system of government.
6. All member states are required to submit detailed information on the levels of qualifications in their education systems to their designated regulator, including:
   
   1. the types of qualifications that correspond to each level of qualification;
   2. the grading and degree classification system deployed in their member state; and
   3. changes to previously submitted information.

Co-authored by Tinhampton and The Ice States

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Link to related repeal legislation: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=533204

The World Assembly,

Recognising that many professionals seek to work across borders and would strongly benefit from international, mutual recognition of their qualifications;

Aware, however, that - in the absence of comprehensive regulation - some of these professionals may be denied access to the international job market for arbitrary reasons such as where they originally plied their trade; and

Convinced that fair, clear and non-arbitrary procedures for the international recognition of job titles and responsibilities must be enacted with due haste;

Hereby enacts the following provisions:

1. Every member state ("member state" is defined as any member nation or political subdivision which oversees professional qualifications) shall designate a singular body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practice a particular profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make 'official' determinations in that member state.
   
2. Each regulator must:
   
   1. identify those professions which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without profession-specific qualifications (hereinafter "regulated professions");
   2. for each regulated profession, identify those overseas profession-specific qualifications which are as rigorous as, or more rigorous than, the equivalent qualifications in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIb qualifications"); and
   3. regularly update the lists of regulated professions and Article IIb qualifications, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.
3. A person may only practice a regulated profession in a member state if:
   
   1. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
   2. they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.
4. Where a person seeks to practice a regulated profession in a member state, but their overseas qualifications are determined by that member state's regulator not to be Article IIb qualifications, they may appeal that determination to that regulator. Such appeals must be conducted fairly and without prejudice.
5. Member states may organise or subdivide their regulator offices to complement their system of government.

Co-authored by Tinhampton

The World Assembly,

Noting the need for an accredited body or regulatory authority to ensure the recognition of academic qualifications across the world,

OBSERVING that standards of academic institutions vary widely across nations,

PERTURBED that preconceived unvalidated notions about the quality of academic titles may reduce the employability of highly skilled individuals,

ATTESTING that a system clarifying the quality and level of education received would be of great benefit to both individuals and their prospective employers,

CONCERNED that a lack of regulation in this area can lead to individuals being refused access to their accreditation process based solely on their location of study,

HIGHLIGHTING the need to have confidence that professionals delivering services are qualified, wherever they develop their knowledge,

Hereby,

INSTRUCTS each nation to establish a ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ to make provisions for international individuals who meet the academic or skills thresholds for employment to have their qualifications recognised,

EMPOWERS said ‘National Regulators for Educational Attainment’ with the purpose of determining whether individuals are entitled to practise a specified profession as if they had earned the qualification or experience in that World Assembly member state,

REITERATES that practising certain professions can require, among other things, the recognition of professional qualifications and that reciprocal arrangements on the recognition of professional qualifications with international partners will be conducted by all World Assembly member states,

ENABLES said ‘National Regulators for Educational Attainment’ to identify which overseas qualifications or overseas experience fall short of equivalency to qualifications in the home nation,

URGES member states to introduce measures that will embed transparency in regulatory practices and decisions,

DECLARES that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will have the autonomy to assess qualifications, and to pursue arrangements with counterparts in other nations in the interests of their professions,

DETERMINES that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will establish provisions for sharing information with international counter-parts,

STATES that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will make provisions for charging nominal fees to applicants for academic accreditation,

ASSERTS that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will maintain and publish reports on their financial activities in line with the financial laws of the nation in which they are established

AFFIRMS that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will enable applicants to appeal determinations on qualifications without prejudice.

The World Assembly,

Recognising that many seek to work across borders and would strongly benefit from international, mutual recognition of their skills and/or qualifications;

Aware, however, that - in the absence of comprehensive regulation - some workers may be denied access to the international job market for arbitrary reasons such as where they originally plied their trade; and

Convinced that fair, clear and non-arbitrary procedures for the international recognition of job titles and responsibilities must be enacted with due haste;

Hereby enacts the following provisions:

1. Every member state ("member state" is defined as any member nation or political subdivision which oversees feasibility to practice vocations and professional qualifications) shall designate a body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practise a particular vocation or profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make official determinations on the validity and transferability of qualifications, skills or trainings that an individual has gained in another member state.
2. Each regulator must:
   
   1. identify those professions which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without profession-specific qualifications (hereinafter "regulated professions");
   2. for each regulated profession, identify those overseas profession-specific qualifications which are as rigorous as, or more rigorous than, the equivalent qualifications in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIb qualifications"); and
   3. regularly update the lists of regulated professions and Article IIb qualifications, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.
   4. identify those vocations which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without specific requirements which can include training or previous experience (hereinafter "regulated vocations");
   5. for each regulated vocation, identify overseas vocation-specific qualifications, training or previous experience which equate to the required standards in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIe requirements"); and
   6. regularly update the lists of regulated vocations and Article IIe requirements, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.
3. No person may be barred from practicing a regulated profession or regulated vocation in a member state, simply because they do not hold the necessary qualifications for that job, if:
   
   1. a. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific overseas qualifications they hold to be Article IIb qualifications, or the relevant vocation-specific qualifications, training, and experiences they have obtained overseas to meet Article IIe requirements, as appropriate, or
   2. they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession or vocation, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas or meet any Article IIe requirements.
4. Where a person seeks to practice a regulated profession in a member state but their overseas qualifications are determined by that member state's regulator not to be Article IIb qualifications, or they seek to practice a regulated vocation in a member state but their overseas qualifications, previous experience or training are determined by that regulator not to meet Article IIe requirements, they may appeal that determination to that regulator. Such appeals must be conducted fairly and without prejudice.
5. Member states may organise or subdivide their regulator offices to complement their system of government.

[Tinhampton]

You make nine arguments in your repeal. This one satisfies the eighth (on appeals procedures). How does it avoid the pitfalls of the other eight?

[Markanite]

Thanks for looking through this!

I. The current resolution does not ensure parity of treatment of potential applicants; applicants can apply to any number of “national or supranational” organisations none of which are regulated by any single authority to ensure fairness and acceptable standards

This resolution aims to make one single National Regulator, set up the member state whereas the other legislation is open ended and allows for others to be made.

II. The wording of the law is vague which enables exploitation by the “institutes of accreditation”, instead the aims of the resolution could be better achieved by establishing a new regulator with clear delineated powers

The powers are detailed throughout the legislation, namely being determination of viability of the course, making international agreements, ensuring appeals and then providing support for those going through the process.

III. There is no provision to establish who will staff “institutes of accreditation” or determine the validity of academic achievement; unregulated and potentially unknowledgeable entities could determine the quality and experience of the workforce resulting in a detrimental effect on the populace and the economy of member nations

IV. The established “institutes of accreditation” are not sufficiently empowered to, following the vetting process, help potential applicants nor can they provide applicants with knowledge of national laws, customs or rules and regulations

These two, I thought would be covered by the law as a whole however I see that its not clear enough. I'll have a look at how I can make the resultant support for applicants better and to look at the staffing of the national regulator.

V. This legislation empowers any individual with the ability to create an “institute of accreditation” without proper checks and balances, resultantly conflicting judgements on the parity of educational qualifications could occur

This is covered by: "INSTRUCTS each nation to establish a ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’. However, as with the last point below, I might change that to make it clearer and avoid confusion.

VI. Failure to ensure “institutes of accreditation” report on their financial activities could potentially enable these institutions to misuse any public funds they are entitled too

This is intended to be covered by "ASSERTS that ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ will maintain and publish reports on their financial activities in line with the financial laws of the nation in which they are established"

VII. Currently, the resolution fails to determine how “institutes of accreditation” are to be regulated or held accountable by any noted body or regulatory authority, nor is there provision for the national government or even the World Assembly to oversee this process

With the establishment of only one National Regulator, then these would report to the government and be monitored by the member state as per "URGES member states to introduce measures that will embed transparency in regulatory practices and decisions,"

VIII. This resolution fails to grant applicants recourse to appeal determinations on qualifications, working contrary to the aims of the resolution

Covered as you've stated.

IX. The current process is open to exploitation from foreign powers who could potentially wish to accredit their courses whilst not ensuring parity of education which fundamentally undermines the goals of this resolution

This is intended to be covered by: "INSTRUCTS each nation to establish a ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ to make provisions for international individuals who meet the academic or skills thresholds for employment to have their qualifications recognised,"

If that is too vague, I could tweak the language to ""INSTRUCTS each nation to establish a ‘National Regulator for Educational Attainment’ which can solely make provisions for international individuals..."

[Tinhampton]

Thanks for the responses. I still feel like this hews too close to RAA in a few regards, however. Do consider the following, if and when you can.

I am infamous for proposal rewrites, by the way. You may cite Tinhampton as a co-author if you believe my contributions to be of sufficient value. You are not under any obligation to adopt this as your new draft, in part or in whole.

The World Assembly,

Recognising that many professionals seek to work across borders and would strongly benefit from international, mutual recognition of their qualifications;

Aware, however, that - in the absence of comprehensive regulation - some of these professionals may be denied access to the international job market for arbitrary reasons such as where they originally plied their trade; and

Convinced that fair, clear and non-arbitrary procedures for the international recognition of job titles and responsibilities must be enacted with due haste;

Hereby enacts the following provisions:

I. Every member state shall designate a singular body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practice a particular profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make such determinations in that member state.

II. Each regulator must:
a. identify those professions which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without profession-specific qualifications (hereinafter "regulated professions");
b. for each regulated profession, identify those overseas profession-specific qualifications which are as rigorous as, or more rigorous than, the equivalent qualifications in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIb qualifications"); and
c. regularly update the lists of regulated professions and Article IIb qualifications, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.

III. A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if:
a. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
b. while in that member state, they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.

IV. Where a person seeks to practice a regulated profession in a member state, but their overseas qualifications are determined by that member state's regulator not to be Article IIb qualifications, they may appeal that determination to that regulator. Such appeals must be conducted fairly and without prejudice.

Now to see how my proposal meets the nine points you outline in the repeal. (And, to an extent, what I think about the ones I'm not terribly convinced by.)

1. Article III applies to everybody who seeks to practice a certain regulated profession in a member state, wherever they are from.
2. I... hope the new draft fulfils this point. I'm not exactly in the best place to be marking (sorry!) my own homework.
3. Staffing is left unstated in this draft. On the whole, it's rather unusual to explain who should staff national committees; it's certainly against the rules to explain staffing of WA committees.
4. I'm not sure where the regulator is supposed to support people. Its job is to verify overseas qualifications, and exclude those whose qualifications do not match domestic standards (subject to appeal, of course).
5. As with the original, this establishes a single regulator in each nation.
6. I don't feel like corruption by regulators is such an issue that it warrants repeal of GA#146 to any degree. Committees in the WA are assumed to be magically impartial and squeaky-clean.
7. Regulators that don't follow Article III will face non-compliance proceedings under GA#390 and #440.
8. The draft establishes an appeals procedure, as in the original.
9. Article I meets the concerns you outlined in the above post.

[Markanite]

Thanks for the responses. I still feel like this hews too close to RAA in a few regards, however. Do consider the following, if and when you can.

I am infamous for proposal rewrites, by the way. You may cite Tinhampton as a co-author if you believe my contributions to be of sufficient value. You are not under any obligation to adopt this as your new draft, in part or in whole.

The World Assembly,

Recognising that many professionals seek to work across borders and would strongly benefit from international, mutual recognition of their qualifications;

Aware, however, that - in the absence of comprehensive regulation - some of these professionals may be denied access to the international job market for arbitrary reasons such as where they originally plied their trade; and

Convinced that fair, clear and non-arbitrary procedures for the international recognition of job titles and responsibilities must be enacted with due haste;

Hereby enacts the following provisions:

I. Every member state shall designate a singular body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practice a particular profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make such determinations in that member state.

II. Each regulator must:
a. identify those professions which, by law, cannot be practiced in their nation without profession-specific qualifications (hereinafter "regulated professions");
b. for each regulated profession, identify those overseas profession-specific qualifications which are as rigorous as, or more rigorous than, the equivalent qualifications in that nation (hereinafter "Article IIb qualifications"); and
c. regularly update the lists of regulated professions and Article IIb qualifications, and publish the most up-to-date versions of those lists.

III. A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if:
a. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
b. while in that member state, they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.

IV. Where a person seeks to practice a regulated profession in a member state, but their overseas qualifications are determined by that member state's regulator not to be Article IIb qualifications, they may appeal that determination to that regulator. Such appeals must be conducted fairly and without prejudice.

Now to see how my proposal meets the nine points you outline in the repeal. (And, to an extent, what I think about the ones I'm not terribly convinced by.)

1. Article III applies to everybody who seeks to practice a certain regulated profession in a member state, wherever they are from.
2. I... hope the new draft fulfils this point. I'm not exactly in the best place to be marking (sorry!) my own homework.
3. Staffing is left unstated in this draft. On the whole, it's rather unusual to explain who should staff national committees; it's certainly against the rules to explain staffing of WA committees.
4. I'm not sure where the regulator is supposed to support people. Its job is to verify overseas qualifications, and exclude those whose qualifications do not match domestic standards (subject to appeal, of course).
5. As with the original, this establishes a single regulator in each nation.
6. I don't feel like corruption by regulators is such an issue that it warrants repeal of GA#146 to any degree. Committees in the WA are assumed to be magically impartial and squeaky-clean.
7. Regulators that don't follow Article III will face non-compliance proceedings under GA#390 and #440.
8. The draft establishes an appeals procedure, as in the original.
9. Article I meets the concerns you outlined in the above post.

Firstly, apologies for how long this has taken me to respond to. Busy few weeks!

Thank you so much for spending so much time on this, this is definitely more succinct than my draft. I hadn't considered using the sections as you've done, that makes it flow a lot better and demonstrates how some of the points were superfluous. Are you sure about being the co-author? We could do it the other way around with you as the author and I can be co-author?

[Tinhampton]

Are you sure about being the co-author? We could do it the other way around with you as the author and I can be co-author?

I insist that you take this project forward as author. It's your idea in the first place, not mine! thanks for reading and taking onboard my draft; I'm very much looking forward to the next episodes of this R&R.

As a side note: please remove the colon from your spoiler title in the OP. It'll make the spoiler display properly.

[Markanite]

Thanks again!

Bumping this to see if anyone else has any thoughts?

[Hulldom]

Full support.

[Maricela Gutierrez]

Every member state shall designate a singular body which shall determine whether individuals who are qualified to practice a particular profession in another country would be so qualified in that member state (hereinafter a "regulator"). No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make such determinations in that member state.

Ms. Gutierrez: "No other entity may make such determinations? What if there's a watchdog organization that wishes to dispute the regulator's findings by making their own determinations and comparisons? Maybe the World Assembly should specify these are 'official determinations' or 'legally enforceable determinations'?"

A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if

...

b. while in that member state, they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.

Ms. Gutierrez: "I think I understand the goal here, but isn't there a distance learning loophole? One of the members of my fan club could move to a member state with stricter qualifications than mine for, say, medicine, but take a correspondence course from my nation, while they are in that other member state. Do you see what I mean? A person can be in a given member state but obtain qualifications for the profession from institutions in a different member state. Article three-bee seems like it should target the source of the qualification instead of the residence of the person."

[Markanite]

Ms. Gutierrez: "No other entity may make such determinations? What if there's a watchdog organization that wishes to dispute the regulator's findings by making their own determinations and comparisons? Maybe the World Assembly should specify these are 'official determinations' or 'legally enforceable determinations'?"

Mr. Dizra: We thank Ms. Gutierrez for her time, consideration and insights. The clause has been amended to ensure other determinations can be made in the interests of scrutiny whereas only the regulator can make official determinations.

Ms. Gutierrez: "I think I understand the goal here, but isn't there a distance learning loophole? One of the members of my fan club could move to a member state with stricter qualifications than mine for, say, medicine, but take a correspondence course from my nation, while they are in that other member state. Do you see what I mean? A person can be in a given member state but obtain qualifications for the profession from institutions in a different member state. Article three-bee seems like it should target the source of the qualification instead of the residence of the person."

Mr. Dizra: The person in question would be more than welcome to get a qualification in a different member state through distance learning, however there is no guarantee that it would be recognised as an equivalent qualification in the member state they reside in. The member state where they are residing would be empowered to make a determination on that qualification and see if it matches the standard. In the example you mentioned, if the member state is stricter, then it is likely the qualification wouldn't be recognised and the loophole wouldn't exist.

[Markanite]

Bumping this, I think I'm going to submit these soon

[Imperium Anglorum]

A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if... while in that member state, they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession...

Why does it matter whether I am abroad when my professional licence is approved?

[Barfleur]

"We have two questions. First, in Article I, does each profession have its own regulator, or is each nation limited to one and only one? If the latter, I strongly suggest changing to the former, or at least allowing nations the ability to decide. Second, Article IV provides for an appeal to the regulator when the regulator issues an adverse ruling. How would that work, seeing as there is only 'a singular body' capable of making such determinations? With these points addressed, Barfleur would support this proposal."

OOC: I suggest using list format; that just makes the text more readable.

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: I suggest using list format; that just makes the text more readable.

OOC. Concurred. The indents are aesthetic.

"We have two questions. First, in Article I, does each profession have its own regulator, or is each nation limited to one and only one? If the latter, I strongly suggest changing to the former, or at least allowing nations the ability to decide. Second, Article IV provides for an appeal to the regulator when the regulator issues an adverse ruling. How would that work, seeing as there is only 'a singular body' capable of making such determinations? With these points addressed, Barfleur would support this proposal."

The plain reading to me implies one regulator per industry. I'm not sure how that would integrate with a federal nation.

[Markanite]

OOC: Adding the list formatting, what do you think? I think you're right about it looking a lot better! Thanks for the heads up.

A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if... while in that member state, they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession...

Why does it matter whether I am abroad when my professional licence is approved?

This was to provide additional clarity to the points above it, so that it is clear who can practice a regulated profession. So in the case above, a person can practice in the new nation if they obtained the qualification while they were in their original nation (and it is approved under IIb). I hope I've interpreted your question correctly there.

"We have two questions. First, in Article I, does each profession have its own regulator, or is each nation limited to one and only one? If the latter, I strongly suggest changing to the former, or at least allowing nations the ability to decide. Second, Article IV provides for an appeal to the regulator when the regulator issues an adverse ruling. How would that work, seeing as there is only 'a singular body' capable of making such determinations? With these points addressed, Barfleur would support this proposal."

Article 1 establishes a national regulator (overarching body), however the operation of that regulator is left open-ended to provide flexibility in practice. The national regulator can have committees for each industry, i.e Medical Industry, Education,. Should I make that more clear?

For Article IV, In addition to the committees above, there would be an appeals committee to regulate/validate the reasons for the original committees' ruling.

The plain reading to me implies one regulator per industry. I'm not sure how that would integrate with a federal nation.

The regulator would be at the Federal Level and it's rulings would be then enforced at a state level. So the Federal regulator would rule that a medical degree is compliant with Article IIb. Then at a state level they would accept that qualification as eligibility to practice the profession.

[Barfleur]

OOC: Adding the list formatting, what do you think? I think you're right about it looking a lot better! Thanks for the heads up.

Why does it matter whether I am abroad when my professional licence is approved?

This was to provide additional clarity to the points above it, so that it is clear who can practice a regulated profession. So in the case above, a person can practice in the new nation if they obtained the qualification while they were in their original nation (and it is approved under IIb). I hope I've interpreted your question correctly there.

"We have two questions. First, in Article I, does each profession have its own regulator, or is each nation limited to one and only one? If the latter, I strongly suggest changing to the former, or at least allowing nations the ability to decide. Second, Article IV provides for an appeal to the regulator when the regulator issues an adverse ruling. How would that work, seeing as there is only 'a singular body' capable of making such determinations? With these points addressed, Barfleur would support this proposal."

Article 1 establishes a national regulator (overarching body), however the operation of that regulator is left open-ended to provide flexibility in practice. The national regulator can have committees for each industry, i.e Medical Industry, Education,. Should I make that more clear?

For Article IV, In addition to the committees above, there would be an appeals committee to regulate/validate the reasons for the original committees' ruling.

OOC: I understand what you are saying now, but that it not apparent in the text, which is what would actually be enacted as law. You should clarify that member nations can in fact subdivide their regulator offices as they desire.

The plain reading to me implies one regulator per industry. I'm not sure how that would integrate with a federal nation.

The regulator would be at the Federal Level and it's rulings would be then enforced at a state level. So the Federal regulator would rule that a medical degree is compliant with Article IIb. Then at a state level they would accept that qualification as eligibility to practice the profession.

OOC: It makes more sense, in my opinion, to define "member nation" as any member nation or political subdivision which has the recognition of professional qualifications in its competence. So if a federal or confederal nation chooses to leave that up to each state/province, then it would be logical that each of those subdivisions would have a separate office. If recognition is a devolved matter, why does that change when we are talking about international recognition?

[States of Glory WA Office]

A person may only practice a profession which is a regulated profession in a member state if

Neville: 'We would advise that 'A person may only practice a regulated profession in a member state if' would read better. Otherwise, we see no issue with supporting this proposal.'

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: Adding the list formatting, what do you think? I think you're right about it looking a lot better! Thanks for the heads up.

Why does it matter whether I am abroad when my professional licence is approved?

This was to provide additional clarity to the points above it, so that it is clear who can practice a regulated profession. So in the case above, a person can practice in the new nation if they obtained the qualification while they were in their original nation (and it is approved under IIb). I hope I've interpreted your question correctly there.

If I took the bar exam for the state of New York and then left for a honeymoon in Campania, during which my professional licence was approved, I would not be "in that member state" when the I obtain the qualification.

Also, what is your thinking on the heterogeneity of different laws? Eg Louisiana's legal licensure is, for good reason, different from that of New York due to French jus civile influence.

[Markanite]

Circling back to earlier posts:

I've added "("member state" is defined as any member nation or political subdivision which oversees professional qualifications) " to article one to provide additional clarification.

Additionally, I've added Article 5 which provides members with a flexibility to organise their regulator to fit their political institutions.

V. Member states may organise or subdivide their regulator offices to complement their system of government.

Thoughts on the wording? I'm hoping that provides enough flexibility to retain the nature of the bill but allow for fluidity in organisation.

OOC: Adding the list formatting, what do you think? I think you're right about it looking a lot better! Thanks for the heads up.



This was to provide additional clarity to the points above it, so that it is clear who can practice a regulated profession. So in the case above, a person can practice in the new nation if they obtained the qualification while they were in their original nation (and it is approved under IIb). I hope I've interpreted your question correctly there.

If I took the bar exam for the state of New York and then left for a honeymoon in Campania, during which my professional licence was approved, I would not be "in that member state" when the I obtain the qualification.

Also, what is your thinking on the heterogeneity of different laws? Eg Louisiana's legal licensure is, for good reason, different from that of New York due to French jus civile influence.

In reference to the being abroad question, I think we've got confused between living abroad and then travelling. For instance, in the example quoted above, you would be living in New York (therefore a resident with a fixed abode there) but visiting Campania. Although your physical being is resident in Campania, your fixed abode is still in New York.

Would: "they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession in that member state" that rectify the problem? That takes out the physical location aspect?

[Markanite]

Also, what is your thinking on the heterogeneity of different laws? Eg Louisiana's legal licensure is, for good reason, different from that of New York due to French jus civile influence.

With the added flexibility above, allowing member states to determine the organisation of their regulators, that will allow for the heterogeneity of different laws to be catered for.

So if Louisiana wanted different qualifications or standards to practice law, their regulator would determine that only certain qualifications are viable to practice law as it is a regulated profession. Another state like New York could likewise rule differently.

[Markanite]

Going back to this, hopefully going to submit soon if anyone else has any comments or questions!

[Markanite]

I'll be looking to submit this in the next few days due to the recent passing of Repeal: Recognising Achievements Act (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=533204)

Any other thoughts on this before I submit?

[Cessarea]

Minister Feathers-of-Burgundy tapped his cheek pensively, thinking about the proposal at hand.

"The proposal is certainly ready for submission, but I am somewhat concerned as to the vague criteria of what constitutes a 'fair' appeal process, as laid out in item IV. Is there not any way to more definitively assure the fairness of that process by, say, mandating certain minimum criteria for the consideration of the regulator, such as technology or differences in member nation's economic models? I do not know exactly what an expanded item IV would look like, but it seems to me that it is the 'weak link' of this proposal, so to speak."

[The Ice States]

I broadly support this, although I have some comments.

No entity in any member state other than the regulator may make 'official' determinations in that member state.

Why official in quotes? What does it mean to be official? Determinations of what?

A person may only practice a regulated profession in a member state if:

1. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
2. they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.

I think it may be worth explicitly stating that a person cannot be barred from practicing the profession on the grounds of lacking necessary qualifications if they hold an Article IIb qualification. I would suggest this rewrite,

No person may be barred, on the grounds of lacking necessary qualifications, from practicing a regulated profession in a member state if:

1. that member state's regulator deems the relevant profession-specific qualifications they hold overseas to be Article IIb qualifications, or
2. they obtain the qualifications required to practice that profession, even if they do not hold any relevant Article IIb qualifications overseas.

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Does clause I mandate that there is a single body to handle all professional qualifications, thereby prohibiting there from being, for example, one body for medicine and another for law? If so, why? If not, this should be made clearer.)