the problem with communism and the Pacific regions

[AfterTheFall]

...

now you see, this seems like a problem to me, nations spawning in regions that aren't inclusive and accommodating to them
pacific regions receive a lot, an endless stream of new nations, and they should give something... courtesy, courtesy towards all nations and all regions, instead they choose to leverage the privilege they have been given to harass other regions and nations.

...

why is it so hard to make myself understood, details don't matter, it's the principle that matters.
region X was invaded by region Y, Y gets hundreds of new members with no effort, X gets none unless they seek them out, this isn't even remotely fair, it shouldn't happen.

again, details don't matter, how many times this happened doesn't matter, what matters is that it happened so it's not some theoretical "what if"

[Jar Wattinree]

...

now you see, this seems like a problem to me, nations spawning in regions that aren't inclusive and accommodating to them
pacific regions receive a lot, an endless stream of new nations, and they should give something... courtesy, courtesy towards all nations and all regions, instead they choose to leverage the privilege they have been given to harass other regions and nations.

You joined the wrong game to play because parody politics is what we play.

[PodracingFan]

I think I am a bit confused on your point?

The Pacifics are indeed slightly mechanically different with nation spawns (a difference being negated even more in the F/S update, as far as I am aware). If you have an issue with the policies of any of these GCRs, the best way is to get involved and speak up for your view, especially in the democratic regions. However, to claim there is some sort of unfair advantage is ridiculous because the nations running the GCRs got there with the support of others in the region. That is just how the game works.

So, is your stance that these GCRs shouldn't be the same as other regions?

[One Small Island]

-snip-

Nobody is having a hard time understanding you. You think it's a bad thing that the pacifics (which is a term you are misusing because it's pretty obvious you mean the large GCRs in general) aren't open and welcoming regions to anyone and everyone who joins the game. You think it's a bad thing that they take the time to help raid regions that are fascists. You would rather they throw open their doors and welcome the fascists into their regions thereby exposing their trans, gay, and otherwise-vulnerable members to the hatred and vitriol that fascists inevitably bring with them. You want them to cater to the worst people on the site because you feel that by virtue of the fact that they are the places where nations spawn they somehow owe it to the game to make sure that hateful, bigoted, and harmful people feel welcome somewhere on the site.

Everybody understands this is what you are arguing for.

But, and here's the sticky bit:

You're wrong.

Your ideal of the GCRs being completely open and tolerant to all people would make the game a significantly worse place. If you think really, really hard on it, I think you'll be able to figure out why welcoming hateful and harmful people into communities filled with those that they hate and wish to harm is a bad thing, and why it is a good thing that the largest regions in the game have taken a firm stance against those hateful and harmful people, and have put their words into action by helping remove those hateful and harmful people from the game whenever possible.

[The Church of Satan]

Again ignoring the argument related to non-NS political views that the OP is making, I strongly dissent from this statement.

Since through a massive historical misjudgement the Pacifics do exist and are a founding grounds for all nations, all nations have an interest in how they are run. There is nobody on this site (class nations excluded) whose NS career does not involve a Pacific.

Since new nations are not founded in an empty holding zone before they join a real region, the only reasonable option is for all players of NS to be given a say on the "laws and policies" of how the commons are operated, rather than consolidating power around a clique of endotarters.

The old Francoist obfuscations about "Userites" were a highly effective wedge to divide the parties rightfully interested in the operation of the Pacifics on the basis of how closely those parties aligned with the views of the Francoists themselves. There is little reason to give any further credibility to their years-old lies.

Whether or not a given region is communist, in this case two (maybe three) is hardly relevant because he thinks all of the regions involved in the raid are communist, including the feeders. He doesn't even understand the regions he's criticizing. He is ignorant of the political structure of the feeders. It's not like anyone kept him out of them either. He could have became a citizen in any of them and ran for a position in any of them, like every Average Joe in Gameplay does. Instead, he decided to whine about false perceived inequities that he was allegedly barred from participating in. The only person responsible for those so-called inequities is he himself.

now you see, this seems like a problem to me, nations spawning in regions that aren't inclusive and accommodating to them
pacific regions receive a lot, an endless stream of new nations, and they should give something... courtesy, courtesy towards all nations and all regions, instead they choose to leverage the privilege they have been given to harass other regions and nations.

Those nations get protections under the respective region's laws. You'd know that if you bothered to learn literally anything about the feeder regions. That doesn't mean those nations are coddled, of course. They have to abide by the region's laws and policies. That's how rules work. -_-

why is it so hard to make myself understood, details don't matter, it's the principle that matters.
region X was invaded by region Y, Y gets hundreds of new members with no effort, X gets none unless they seek them out, this isn't even remotely fair, it shouldn't happen.

again, details don't matter, how many times this happened doesn't matter, what matters is that it happened so it's not some theoretical "what if"

And with those tens of thousands of nations at their disposal, it took the militaries of each of those dozen or so regions to raid your region. They don't have each and every player in their region to count on. They only get the ones that decide to participate, which is less than 1% of the 10,000 or so nations each feeder region has. That's right! Each feeder region that raided yours could only muster less than 1% of their region's population to attack. And guess what? It's rather common for user-created regions to muster a greater percentage of their forces because a larger percentage of their population is more active. The feeders larger population is, from an offensive military viewpoint, completely irrelevant. But go ahead and whine about it if it makes you feel better.

[Refuge Isle]

...

why is it so hard to make myself understood, details don't matter, it's the principle that matters.
region X was invaded by region Y, Y gets hundreds of new members with no effort, X gets none unless they seek them out, this isn't even remotely fair, it shouldn't happen.

It's probably hard for you to communicate your ideas because you're coming into the game with a very loose and inaccurate understanding of the game and trying to preach to people who have a little firmer grasp.

What in the world are you thinking happens in invasions? That raiders target a region and all of those targetted players flock to their discord server, eyes exploding with hearts, anime style? That it's a forbidden win button to watch the recruits roll in?

There is only one game-created region whose military alignment is raider right now. It is Osiris, a resurrector, home to a shitload of inactivity, and three updaters with six layers of cross membership with other raider orgs. While GCRs can have a number of pilers, the vast bulk of NationStates militaries, especially in active updaters, come from UCRs. User-created regions spend thousands of hours every year on telegramming new accounts (IN FEEDERS) to join their cause, and have very specialised abilities because of it. Abilities like destroying the regions of nations that have proto-nazi flags and incredibly racist RMBs. Very tragic.

[The North Polish Union]

Since through a massive historical misjudgement the Pacifics do exist and are a founding grounds for all nations, all nations have an interest in how they are run. There is nobody on this site (class nations excluded) whose NS career does not involve a Pacific.

Says the person not in a Game Created Region. You chose to move out, you lose any “right” you claim to have regarding how a Pacific region is governed.

Since new nations are not founded in an empty holding zone before they join a real region, the only reasonable option is for all players of NS to be given a say on the "laws and policies" of how the commons are operated, rather than consolidating power around a clique of endotarters.

Ibid.

Not so. You have clearly thoroughly digested the ancient fantasy that simply being good at endotarting or being close enough to someone else good at endotarting gives one the right to administer the GCR as they see fit. My point is that, since GCRs unfortunately do exist, they ought to be administered by NS's whole playerbase as a common good rather than the petty fiefdoms of several oligarchic cliques.

The old Francoist obfuscations about "Userites" were a highly effective wedge to divide the parties rightfully interested in the operation of the Pacifics on the basis of how closely those parties aligned with the views of the Francoists themselves. There is little reason to give any further credibility to their years-old lies.

For a so-called userite, you're quite determined to continue demonstrating why you are politically obsolete. I’m sure not even these newfangled Frontiers are gonna take you in.

This is a pure ad hominem and has nothing at all to do with anything I said. Despite the talk about my obsolescence, it does look like there's at least one other thing than myself that hasn't changed in the past decade-plus, and that's the proclivity of the NPObots to utilize attacks on their opponents rather than having a defensible position of their own. Perhaps someday the NPOs tactics will change and then I really might become politically obsolete, but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.

Again ignoring the argument related to non-NS political views that the OP is making, I strongly dissent from this statement.

Since through a massive historical misjudgement the Pacifics do exist and are a founding grounds for all nations, all nations have an interest in how they are run. There is nobody on this site (class nations excluded) whose NS career does not involve a Pacific.

Since new nations are not founded in an empty holding zone before they join a real region, the only reasonable option is for all players of NS to be given a say on the "laws and policies" of how the commons are operated, rather than consolidating power around a clique of endotarters.

The old Francoist obfuscations about "Userites" were a highly effective wedge to divide the parties rightfully interested in the operation of the Pacifics on the basis of how closely those parties aligned with the views of the Francoists themselves. There is little reason to give any further credibility to their years-old lies.

Whether or not a given region is communist, in this case two (maybe three) is hardly relevant because he thinks all of the regions involved in the raid are communist, including the feeders. He doesn't even understand the regions he's criticizing. He is ignorant of the political structure of the feeders. It's not like anyone kept him out of them either. He could have became a citizen in any of them and ran for a position in any of them, like every Average Joe in Gameplay does. Instead, he decided to whine about false perceived inequities that he was allegedly barred from participating in. The only person responsible for those so-called inequities is he himself.

While your assessment of OP's position seems correct to me the issue is that your rebuttal to this was the assertion that "The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions."

While this statement may be correct from a practical perspective considering how the Pacifics operate currently, it is only correct because the Pacifics have operated on the assumption that their ruling juntas have the right to operate the region as a private dominion from which both intra- and inter-regional power can be extracted for the junta's benefit.

While UCRs may reasonably be thought of in these terms, as executive authority derives solely from the founder from whom and by whom all other trappings of governance depend, the Pacifics do not fit these criteria. They are inorganic quasi-regions, existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else. Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site.

Once again, I reiterate that this has nothing to do with OP's specific complaints about a specific operation, but that the grievances on which OP's claims rest are perfectly legitimate and should be of grave concern to all players even if OP has decided to draw a nonsensical and unsympathetic conclusion from the basic issues. If anything a cursory examination belies OP's claim that the Pacifics are communist (to the extent that one views such real-life political distinctions as meaningful for NS regions, which I typically do not, but will indulge here for the sake of illustration). Were the Pacifics communist they would operate in a way that could somewhat be described as "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Instead each Pacific acts like a gluttonous madman, seeking to absorb ever more resources to itself. I can think of next to nothing on this site more rapaciously anti-communist than the Pacific governments are in practice.

[Veszcota]

As has been said a number of times in the thread already, the influx of new nations to Feeders has no bearing on the active and leading players in those regions choosing to take part in anti-fascist operations, etc. etc. Additionally, anyone with any experience, even cursory, interacting with the players in those regions will tell you that most in leadership are not communists (in either the IRL or RP sense).

If you'd like to take up the banner of "Feeders ought to abolished" as a form of mechanical suggestion, OP, click here for Technical, where you can make a thread suggesting as much, though I wouldn't bother at the moment if I were you. The Frontiers and Strongholds update is no doubt being prioritized as a way of alleviating the nation discrepancy between the feeder regions and user-created-regions, and while I don't personally have much in the way of optimism about it, it's close to being released, while any other kind change to where nations spawn into the game would no doubt take much longer to realize if it was even considered.

[Jar Wattinree]

This is a pure ad hominem and has nothing at all to do with anything I said. Despite the talk about my obsolescence, it does look like there's at least one other thing than myself that hasn't changed in the past decade-plus, and that's the proclivity of the NPObots to utilize attacks on their opponents rather than having a defensible position of their own. Perhaps someday the NPOs tactics will change and then I really might become politically obsolete, but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.

Lol k

[The Church of Satan]

While your assessment of OP's position seems correct to me the issue is that your rebuttal to this was the assertion that "The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions."

While this statement may be correct from a practical perspective considering how the Pacifics operate currently, it is only correct because the Pacifics have operated on the assumption that their ruling juntas have the right to operate the region as a private dominion from which both intra- and inter-regional power can be extracted for the junta's benefit.

While UCRs may reasonably be thought of in these terms, as executive authority derives solely from the founder from whom and by whom all other trappings of governance depend, the Pacifics do not fit these criteria. They are inorganic quasi-regions, existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else. Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site.

Once again, I reiterate that this has nothing to do with OP's specific complaints about a specific operation, but that the grievances on which OP's claims rest are perfectly legitimate and should be of grave concern to all players even if OP has decided to draw a nonsensical and unsympathetic conclusion from the basic issues. If anything a cursory examination belies OP's claim that the Pacifics are communist (to the extent that one views such real-life political distinctions as meaningful for NS regions, which I typically do not, but will indulge here for the sake of illustration). Were the Pacifics communist they would operate in a way that could somewhat be described as "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Instead each Pacific acts like a gluttonous madman, seeking to absorb ever more resources to itself. I can think of next to nothing on this site more rapaciously anti-communist than the Pacific governments are in practice.

The feeders not having founders doesn't preclude them from regional sovereignty. And need I remind you, three of the feeders are democracies (TNP, TSP, TEP.) Anyone with the skills, citizenship, and a demonstrated loyalty to the region can reach the lofty heights of feeder delegate.

"Oh, shit! Word? For real?"

That's right! No junta there. TWP and TP may not be democracies, but it's not comparably difficult to reach delegate there either. If you got the skills, just work up to it. If you don't, then work hard to develop the skills. Then you work your way up the ladder, prove some degree of loyalty to the region, and you're in. Nobody is gonna hand anyone a feeder on a silver platter just because someone feels entitled to it, or because to do otherwise would be "unfair." This may be a game, but you still gotta earn stuff in it. Especially in the GCRs.

Quasi regions? Seriously? The Pacific is an OG region. Nothing quasi about that. That means all the feeders, with whom they share a common purpose, are OG regions as well. They're the first kind of region. Technically speaking, UCRs are the odd duck here. Feeders are the World Turtle, carrying the UCRs upon its back.

[Balstogifia]

No... They really don't. The game functions the exact same way for everyone. Communist regions do not receive any special tools to allow them to raid fascist regions. I will admit, this is a new complaint I have never heard before....

The game functions favor the clique currently in charge of the Pacific regions. It could be covert fascists, invading regions because "they seemed like communists to me", and then communists would complain. But a different clique would face a tremendous challenge to garner support for a regime change, because they don't get new members out of nowhere, they have to work to get them and Pacific regions make it harder.

"WELCOME TO THE WEST PACIFIC

Let's get you settled in to your new home.

Step 1 - visit page=tgsettings and change Recruitment to "block all."

Step 2 - head over to page=un and join the World Assembly. Follow the prompts and check your email!

Step 3 - go to Overthinkers and click the 'Endorse Overthinkers' button."

My suggestion: enforced neutrality for the Pacific regions, no embassies, not tags, no ejections, no welcome telegram, WA Delegate can edit the World Factbook Entry but there would be an uneditable introductory part.

I think no ejections is a bit far but other than that yeah

[Haganham]

While your assessment of OP's position seems correct to me the issue is that your rebuttal to this was the assertion that "The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions."

While this statement may be correct from a practical perspective considering how the Pacifics operate currently, it is only correct because the Pacifics have operated on the assumption that their ruling juntas have the right to operate the region as a private dominion from which both intra- and inter-regional power can be extracted for the junta's benefit.

While UCRs may reasonably be thought of in these terms, as executive authority derives solely from the founder from whom and by whom all other trappings of governance depend, the Pacifics do not fit these criteria. They are inorganic quasi-regions, existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else. Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site.

Once again, I reiterate that this has nothing to do with OP's specific complaints about a specific operation, but that the grievances on which OP's claims rest are perfectly legitimate and should be of grave concern to all players even if OP has decided to draw a nonsensical and unsympathetic conclusion from the basic issues. If anything a cursory examination belies OP's claim that the Pacifics are communist (to the extent that one views such real-life political distinctions as meaningful for NS regions, which I typically do not, but will indulge here for the sake of illustration). Were the Pacifics communist they would operate in a way that could somewhat be described as "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Instead each Pacific acts like a gluttonous madman, seeking to absorb ever more resources to itself. I can think of next to nothing on this site more rapaciously anti-communist than the Pacific governments are in practice.

The feeders not having founders doesn't preclude them from regional sovereignty. And need I remind you, three of the feeders are democracies (TNP, TSP, TEP.) Anyone with the skills, citizenship, and a demonstrated loyalty to the region can reach the lofty heights of feeder delegate.

"Oh, shit! Word? For real?"

That's right! No junta there. TWP and TP may not be democracies, but it's not comparably difficult to reach delegate there either. If you got the skills, just work up to it. If you don't, then work hard to develop the skills. Then you work your way up the ladder, prove some degree of loyalty to the region, and you're in. Nobody is gonna hand anyone a feeder on a silver platter just because someone feels entitled to it, or because to do otherwise would be "unfair." This may be a game, but you still gotta earn stuff in it. Especially in the GCRs.

Quasi regions? Seriously? The Pacific is an OG region. Nothing quasi about that. That means all the feeders, with whom they share a common purpose, are OG regions as well. They're the first kind of region. Technically speaking, UCRs are the odd duck here. Feeders are the World Turtle, carrying the UCRs upon its back.

If you think the feeders are democracies get together some friends and try to vote in a new leader.

[The Church of Satan]

If you think the feeders are democracies get together some friends and try to vote in a new leader.

Three of them hold democratic elections regularly for their executive and judicial branches. Citizenship instantly makes you a member of their legislative branches. Yup, citizenship let's you propose and vote on changes to their laws. I vote in TNPs elections myself. Ran in one not too long ago as well. Illusion shattered. The light of truth shines in. Who's next?

[PhilTech]

Do you know what the greatest contributor to every game-created region's big numbers is? It's players that stay where they are and only answer issues. They contribute nothing to their regions. Which is fine. It's how they want to play and there's nothing wrong with that.

I feel attacked!

[The North Polish Union]

While your assessment of OP's position seems correct to me the issue is that your rebuttal to this was the assertion that "The legitimate governments of the Pacifics have their own respective laws and policies. It's not your place to dictate how they run their regions."

While this statement may be correct from a practical perspective considering how the Pacifics operate currently, it is only correct because the Pacifics have operated on the assumption that their ruling juntas have the right to operate the region as a private dominion from which both intra- and inter-regional power can be extracted for the junta's benefit.

While UCRs may reasonably be thought of in these terms, as executive authority derives solely from the founder from whom and by whom all other trappings of governance depend, the Pacifics do not fit these criteria. They are inorganic quasi-regions, existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else. Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site.

Once again, I reiterate that this has nothing to do with OP's specific complaints about a specific operation, but that the grievances on which OP's claims rest are perfectly legitimate and should be of grave concern to all players even if OP has decided to draw a nonsensical and unsympathetic conclusion from the basic issues. If anything a cursory examination belies OP's claim that the Pacifics are communist (to the extent that one views such real-life political distinctions as meaningful for NS regions, which I typically do not, but will indulge here for the sake of illustration). Were the Pacifics communist they would operate in a way that could somewhat be described as "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Instead each Pacific acts like a gluttonous madman, seeking to absorb ever more resources to itself. I can think of next to nothing on this site more rapaciously anti-communist than the Pacific governments are in practice.

The feeders not having founders doesn't preclude them from regional sovereignty.

This isn't the claim I was making. Feeders are in a unique position from any other founderless regions and their lack of founders doesn't factor into my viewpoint at all. See from my previous post "Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site."

And need I remind you, three of the feeders are democracies (TNP, TSP, TEP.) Anyone with the skills, citizenship, and a demonstrated loyalty to the region can reach the lofty heights of feeder delegate.

"Oh, shit! Word? For real?"

That's right! No junta there. TWP and TP may not be democracies, but it's not comparably difficult to reach delegate there either. If you got the skills, just work up to it. If you don't, then work hard to develop the skills. Then you work your way up the ladder, prove some degree of loyalty to the region, and you're in. Nobody is gonna hand anyone a feeder on a silver platter just because someone feels entitled to it, or because to do otherwise would be "unfair." This may be a game, but you still gotta earn stuff in it. Especially in the GCRs.

All this assumes that there exists a legitimate form of regional government for a feeder, whether that be more democratic or more authoritarian. In reality the assumption that a legitimate form of regional feeder government can exist ought to be rejected; its irrelevant TNP, TSP, and TEP permit nations to indulge in endotarting with extra steps while TP and TWP restrict that more heavily. In all cases the franchise is only extended to nations in the region, rather than nations having a stake in the operation of the region for the sake of game health (i.e. all nations residing in UCRs). Any feeder 'government' whose function is anything short of an all-regional coalition facilitating the movement of new nations to genuine communities to the greatest extent possible is nothing less than the basest for of oligarchic plunder.

Quasi regions? Seriously? The Pacific is an OG region. Nothing quasi about that. That means all the feeders, with whom they share a common purpose, are OG regions as well. They're the first kind of region. Technically speaking, UCRs are the odd duck here. Feeders are the World Turtle, carrying the UCRs upon its back.

Yes, quasi-regions, as in regions "existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else". Age cannot possibly legitimate them in the same sense that UCRs are legitimate region. Furthermore, the "World Turtle" analogy cannot support the position that the existing system of feeder governments is beneficial. If feeders are the World Turtle, why would we trust the turtle's health to parties that care only for themselves while harming the rest of the world?

[Equai]

If you are going to be butthurt that fascist regions are being raided and invaded forcing them to not be fascist anymore then this is wrong place for you to be on. ‚The Pacific regions aren't communist, not even slightly. Just because some of them are anti-fascist doesn't make them communist, it makes them have common sense that fascism is bad.

[The Church of Satan]

This isn't the claim I was making. Feeders are in a unique position from any other founderless regions and their lack of founders doesn't factor into my viewpoint at all. See from my previous post "Since all regions and the players in them depend on the Pacifics for their own continued regional health (recruitment) it is nonsensical to assert that the Pacifics then should be administered by a tiny self-interested group who persistently refuse to operate them in a way that benefits the balance of players on the site."

All this assumes that there exists a legitimate form of regional government for a feeder, whether that be more democratic or more authoritarian. In reality the assumption that a legitimate form of regional feeder government can exist ought to be rejected; its irrelevant TNP, TSP, and TEP permit nations to indulge in endotarting with extra steps while TP and TWP restrict that more heavily. In all cases the franchise is only extended to nations in the region, rather than nations having a stake in the operation of the region for the sake of game health (i.e. all nations residing in UCRs). Any feeder 'government' whose function is anything short of an all-regional coalition facilitating the movement of new nations to genuine communities to the greatest extent possible is nothing less than the basest for of oligarchic plunder.

Yes, quasi-regions, as in regions "existing at the will of the site administration to serve a function (for new nations to be founded) and little else". Age cannot possibly legitimate them in the same sense that UCRs are legitimate region. Furthermore, the "World Turtle" analogy cannot support the position that the existing system of feeder governments is beneficial. If feeders are the World Turtle, why would we trust the turtle's health to parties that care only for themselves while harming the rest of the world?

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world. Anyone too lazy to so much as register an account on the regional forums forfeits the right to govern. Because if they can't make the minimum amount of effort, then they aren't fit to govern. They don't deserve it. Their region is better off without their hypocritical input. They lack determination and commitment. Without those, one cannot govern. They cannot take up the responsibility. They don't even know the responsibility.

[AfterTheFall]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world.

of course admirers of communism would turn out the biggest hypocrites
this is like someone sitting on a pile of money (tens of thousands of nations already there), getting more money from the government each day while others are getting none, and then saying "yes, I'm only concerned about my own finances, as I should be, you'd rather I was out on the street starving for others' sake?"

[The Church of Satan]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world.

of course admirers of communism would turn out the biggest hypocrites
this is like someone sitting on a pile of money (tens of thousands of nations already there), getting more money from the government each day while others are getting none, and then saying "yes, I'm only concerned about my own finances, as I should be, you'd rather I was out on the street starving for others' sake?"

Your analogy would work if other regions weren't able to freely recruit from the feeders. The feeders are part of NationStates' free market structure, as the enormous supermarket with everything you want, everything you don't want, and a few things you didn't know you wanted. If you wanna break up the supermarket because you're jealous of its success, then maybe you're the communist. >_>

[Equai]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world.

of course admirers of communism would turn out the biggest hypocrites
this is like someone sitting on a pile of money (tens of thousands of nations already there), getting more money from the government each day while others are getting none, and then saying "yes, I'm only concerned about my own finances, as I should be, you'd rather I was out on the street starving for others' sake?"

This analogy is comparing humans sexuality to a seatbelts level stupid. I really have no idea why are you so pressed over this. If its because you made your own region and no one joined then the issue isn't "communism in Pacific regions" then your region having nothing to offer. additionally if your concern is size and mingling with the raider side of the community you overestimate the numbers. As others said The Pacifics are feeder regions where new players spawn, most of those new players don't give a damn about raiding/defending mechanics. Most of them answer issues and have fun on either G7 or roleplay forum. While yes the Pacifics maybe have "advantage" of new players automatically being in one of them other regions have even bigger advantage of being centered around certain topic, ideology or set of topics. Furthermore, new players are flooded with recruitment emails from other, more interesting regions, so invested players either move right away or explore and then move away.

And after reading all your "arguments" I still really fail to see:
-why are so this much pressed over the issue of the Pacifics operating like any other region?
-what communism has to do with it?
-why should they be ordered to allow literal fascist ideologies in their regions?

[Jar Wattinree]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world. Anyone too lazy to so much as register an account on the regional forums forfeits the right to govern. Because if they can't make the minimum amount of effort, then they aren't fit to govern. They don't deserve it. Their region is better off without their hypocritical input. They lack determination and commitment. Without those, one cannot govern. They cannot take up the responsibility. They don't even know the responsibility.

I have a dream!

That one day every player in this nation building simulator will control their own destiny. A simulator of the truly free, dammit. A simulator of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee; where the law changes to suit the individual non-native Pacifican who doesn't even participate in these Pacific regions to begin with, not the other way around like logic and commonsense so inconveniently dictates. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the nonexistent people who believe they should control the Pacifics instead of the ones already there! Where every non-native player who again doesn't reside in the Pacifics, not even as issue answerers, is free to think, to act for themselves!

[twenty eight words redacted for profanity]

The Pacific regions are diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving them - we need to pull them out by the roots, wipe the slate clean. BURN THEM DOWN! And from the ashes, new blank empty feeder regions and completely ignoring the meta shakeup in a month or two with Frontiers and Strongholds will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak governments already residing in them will be purged because nobody cares about them and the strongest userite will thrive - free to live as they see fit. They'll make the Pacific regions great again!

[Imperial Pravus]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world. Anyone too lazy to so much as register an account on the regional forums forfeits the right to govern. Because if they can't make the minimum amount of effort, then they aren't fit to govern. They don't deserve it. Their region is better off without their hypocritical input. They lack determination and commitment. Without those, one cannot govern. They cannot take up the responsibility. They don't even know the responsibility.

I have a dream!

That one day every player in this nation building simulator will control their own destiny. A simulator of the truly free, dammit. A simulator of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee; where the law changes to suit the individual non-native Pacifican who doesn't even participate in these Pacific regions to begin with, not the other way around like logic and commonsense so inconveniently dictates. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the nonexistent people who believe they should control the Pacifics instead of the ones already there! Where every non-native player who again doesn't reside in the Pacifics, not even as issue answerers, is free to think, to act for themselves!

[twenty eight words redacted for profanity]

The Pacific regions are diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving them - we need to pull them out by the roots, wipe the slate clean. BURN THEM DOWN! And from the ashes, new blank empty feeder regions and completely ignoring the meta shakeup in a month or two with Frontiers and Strongholds will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak governments already residing in them will be purged because nobody cares about them and the strongest userite will thrive - free to live as they see fit. They'll make the Pacific regions great again!

Standing here I realize you were just a meme trying to make history

[PhilTech]

So you're saying the health of The Pacific's themselves is completely irrelevant? You'd prefer that the feeders were an empty wasteland if it meant redistributing their residents to UCRs? What makes you think the people who run the feeders are all self-interested? They're focused on their own region's, as they should be. They have no obligation to the health of the other regions out there. The game does quite fine without the feeder governments trying to turn themselves into empty husks for the sake of the world. Anyone too lazy to so much as register an account on the regional forums forfeits the right to govern. Because if they can't make the minimum amount of effort, then they aren't fit to govern. They don't deserve it. Their region is better off without their hypocritical input. They lack determination and commitment. Without those, one cannot govern. They cannot take up the responsibility. They don't even know the responsibility.

I have a dream!

That one day every player in this nation building simulator will control their own destiny. A simulator of the truly free, dammit. A simulator of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee; where the law changes to suit the individual non-native Pacifican who doesn't even participate in these Pacific regions to begin with, not the other way around like logic and commonsense so inconveniently dictates. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the nonexistent people who believe they should control the Pacifics instead of the ones already there! Where every non-native player who again doesn't reside in the Pacifics, not even as issue answerers, is free to think, to act for themselves!

[twenty eight words redacted for profanity]

The Pacific regions are diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving them - we need to pull them out by the roots, wipe the slate clean. BURN THEM DOWN! And from the ashes, new blank empty feeder regions and completely ignoring the meta shakeup in a month or two with Frontiers and Strongholds will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak governments already residing in them will be purged because nobody cares about them and the strongest userite will thrive - free to live as they see fit. They'll make the Pacific regions great again!

I..no.. WE can make that happen.

Apes togiter strung.

[Repitilysia]

I have a dream!

That one day every player in this nation building simulator will control their own destiny. A simulator of the truly free, dammit. A simulator of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee; where the law changes to suit the individual non-native Pacifican who doesn't even participate in these Pacific regions to begin with, not the other way around like logic and commonsense so inconveniently dictates. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the nonexistent people who believe they should control the Pacifics instead of the ones already there! Where every non-native player who again doesn't reside in the Pacifics, not even as issue answerers, is free to think, to act for themselves!

[twenty eight words redacted for profanity]

The Pacific regions are diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving them - we need to pull them out by the roots, wipe the slate clean. BURN THEM DOWN! And from the ashes, new blank empty feeder regions and completely ignoring the meta shakeup in a month or two with Frontiers and Strongholds will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak governments already residing in them will be purged because nobody cares about them and the strongest userite will thrive - free to live as they see fit. They'll make the Pacific regions great again!

"Maybe I was wrong about you..."

"Am I finally getting through? I'll rid this game of pointless communists, Jack."

"I was wrong. You're not whiny -- you're bat-(doo doo) insane!" (Yeets the dude with facts and logic)

"Making the mother of all 'inclusive democracies' here, Jack. Can't fret over every red."

"Not when you're 'accommodating the nations', right? What do you know about 'the nations'? You didn't join the region. You've never even followed our rules. You don't know what it's like to fight and raid and endorse just to have your region survive..."

"But your region did survive! Through sheer number of nations, following your own set of antifa rules. With your own overpowered WA delegates, you took back your region!"

"And now I'll take yours."

[Imperial Pravus]

I have a dream!

That one day every player in this nation building simulator will control their own destiny. A simulator of the truly free, dammit. A simulator of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee; where the law changes to suit the individual non-native Pacifican who doesn't even participate in these Pacific regions to begin with, not the other way around like logic and commonsense so inconveniently dictates. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the nonexistent people who believe they should control the Pacifics instead of the ones already there! Where every non-native player who again doesn't reside in the Pacifics, not even as issue answerers, is free to think, to act for themselves!

[twenty eight words redacted for profanity]

The Pacific regions are diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving them - we need to pull them out by the roots, wipe the slate clean. BURN THEM DOWN! And from the ashes, new blank empty feeder regions and completely ignoring the meta shakeup in a month or two with Frontiers and Strongholds will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak governments already residing in them will be purged because nobody cares about them and the strongest userite will thrive - free to live as they see fit. They'll make the Pacific regions great again!

"Maybe I was wrong about you..."

"Am I finally getting through? I'll rid this game of pointless communists, Jack."

"I was wrong. You're not whiny -- you're bat-(doo doo) insane!" (Yeets the dude with facts and logic)

"Making the mother of all 'inclusive democracies' here, Jack. Can't fret over every red."

"Not when you're 'accommodating the nations', right? What do you know about 'the nations'? You didn't join the region. You've never even followed our rules. You don't know what it's like to fight and raid and endorse just to have your region survive..."

"But your region did survive! Through sheer number of nations, following your own set of antifa rules. With your own overpowered WA delegates, you took back your region!"

"And now I'll take yours."

The Pacific is a democracy. We elect a WA Delegate every 12 hours on the dot. Thats more elections than the US has and as an American i know a thing or two about democracy.