John Brown: Hero or Terrorist?

[The Great Nevada Overlord]

In the great history of America, not one person was so enthusiastic about his ideals than John Brown.

John Brown (May 9, 1800 – December 2, 1859) was an American abolitionist leader. First reaching national prominence for his radical abolitionism and fighting in Bleeding Kansas, he was eventually captured and executed for a failed incitement of a slave rebellion at Harpers Ferry preceding the American Civil War.

An evangelical Christian of strong religious convictions, Brown was profoundly influenced by the Puritan faith of his upbringing. He believed that he was "an instrument of God", raised up to strike the "death blow" to American slavery, a "sacred obligation". Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement, believing it was necessary to end American slavery after decades of peaceful efforts had failed. Brown said repeatedly that in working to free the enslaved, he was following Christian ethics, including the Golden Rule as well as the U.S. Declaration of Independence, which states that "all men are created equal" He stated repeatedly that in his view, these two principles "meant the same thing".

Brown first gained national attention when he led anti-slavery volunteers and his own sons during the Bleeding Kansas crisis of the late 1850s, a state-level civil war over whether Kansas would enter the Union as a slave state or a free state. He was dissatisfied with abolitionist pacifism, saying of pacifists, "These men are all talk. What we need is action – action!". In May 1856, Brown and his sons killed five supporters of slavery in the Pottawatomie massacre, a response to the sacking of Lawrence by pro-slavery forces. Brown then commanded anti-slavery forces at the Battle of Black Jack and the Battle of Osawatomie.

In October 1859, Brown led a raid on the federal armory at Harpers Ferry, Virginia (today West Virginia), intending to start a slave liberation movement that would spread south; he had prepared a Provisional Constitution for the revised, slavery-free United States that he hoped to bring about. He seized the armory, but seven people were killed and ten or more were injured. Brown intended to arm slaves with weapons from the armory, but only a few slaves joined his revolt. Those of Brown's men who had not fled were killed or captured by local militia and U.S. Marines, the latter led by Robert E. Lee. Brown was tried for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, the murder of five men, and inciting a slave insurrection. He was found guilty of all charges and was hanged on December 2, 1859, the first person executed for treason in the history of the United States.

The Harpers Ferry raid and Brown's trial, both covered extensively in national newspapers, escalated tensions that led, a year later, to the South's long-threatened secession and the American Civil War. Southerners feared that others would soon follow in Brown's footsteps, encouraging and arming slave rebellions. He was a hero and icon in the North. Union soldiers marched to the new song "John Brown's Body", that portrayed him as a heroic martyr. Brown has been variously described as a heroic martyr and visionary, and as a madman and terrorist.

I think of John Brown as a hero who probably did more harm than good.

After his stints, the idea that the northern states wouldn't hold the southern states at gun point was out of the equation for the south.
John Brown's violence against the Dixie sent a message that abolitionists were fed up and were ready to take up arms, which the south would mirror.

Not saying that a peaceful abolition would have happened, but more people were open to the idea before Brown.

But also he did the right thing, saw the writing on the wall, and should be an example of both heroism and how extremist ideology can go both ways.

[Ifreann]

America needs John Brown to come back and finish freeing the slaves.

[Floofybit]

America needs John Brown to come back and finish freeing the slaves.

Such as?

[American Legionaries]

In the great history of America, not one person was so enthusiastic about his ideals than John Brown.

John Brown (May 9, 1800 – December 2, 1859) was an American abolitionist leader. First reaching national prominence for his radical abolitionism and fighting in Bleeding Kansas, he was eventually captured and executed for a failed incitement of a slave rebellion at Harpers Ferry preceding the American Civil War.

An evangelical Christian of strong religious convictions, Brown was profoundly influenced by the Puritan faith of his upbringing. He believed that he was "an instrument of God", raised up to strike the "death blow" to American slavery, a "sacred obligation". Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement, believing it was necessary to end American slavery after decades of peaceful efforts had failed. Brown said repeatedly that in working to free the enslaved, he was following Christian ethics, including the Golden Rule as well as the U.S. Declaration of Independence, which states that "all men are created equal" He stated repeatedly that in his view, these two principles "meant the same thing".

Brown first gained national attention when he led anti-slavery volunteers and his own sons during the Bleeding Kansas crisis of the late 1850s, a state-level civil war over whether Kansas would enter the Union as a slave state or a free state. He was dissatisfied with abolitionist pacifism, saying of pacifists, "These men are all talk. What we need is action – action!". In May 1856, Brown and his sons killed five supporters of slavery in the Pottawatomie massacre, a response to the sacking of Lawrence by pro-slavery forces. Brown then commanded anti-slavery forces at the Battle of Black Jack and the Battle of Osawatomie.

In October 1859, Brown led a raid on the federal armory at Harpers Ferry, Virginia (today West Virginia), intending to start a slave liberation movement that would spread south; he had prepared a Provisional Constitution for the revised, slavery-free United States that he hoped to bring about. He seized the armory, but seven people were killed and ten or more were injured. Brown intended to arm slaves with weapons from the armory, but only a few slaves joined his revolt. Those of Brown's men who had not fled were killed or captured by local militia and U.S. Marines, the latter led by Robert E. Lee. Brown was tried for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, the murder of five men, and inciting a slave insurrection. He was found guilty of all charges and was hanged on December 2, 1859, the first person executed for treason in the history of the United States.

The Harpers Ferry raid and Brown's trial, both covered extensively in national newspapers, escalated tensions that led, a year later, to the South's long-threatened secession and the American Civil War. Southerners feared that others would soon follow in Brown's footsteps, encouraging and arming slave rebellions. He was a hero and icon in the North. Union soldiers marched to the new song "John Brown's Body", that portrayed him as a heroic martyr. Brown has been variously described as a heroic martyr and visionary, and as a madman and terrorist.

I think of John Brown as a hero who probably did more harm than good.

After his stints, the idea that the northern states wouldn't hold the southern states at gun point was out of the equation for the south.
John Brown's violence against the Dixie sent a message that abolitionists were fed up and were ready to take up arms, which the south would mirror.

Not saying that a peaceful abolition would have happened, but more people were open to the idea before Brown.

But also he did the right thing, saw the writing on the wall, and should be an example of both heroism and how extremist ideology can go both ways.

Hero or terrorist?

Yes.

[Necroghastia]

Who is your favorite fearless hero, who is your favorite fearless herooo~!

[Ifreann]

America needs John Brown to come back and finish freeing the slaves.

Such as?

What do you mean, "Such as?"

[Floofybit]

Such as?

What do you mean, "Such as?"

What slaves? Trafficked humans? Slaves in other countries?

[Floofybit]

Who is your favorite fearless hero, who is your favorite fearless herooo~!

That would mean after he was hung... He has 8 lives. Where is he now?

[A-10]

He was an insane person who helped start the civil war and kept violence going on in Kansas.

Despite his noble intentions his actions brought harm to the country

[Ifreann]

What do you mean, "Such as?"

What slaves? Trafficked humans? Slaves in other countries?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

He was an insane person who helped start the civil war and kept violence going on in Kansas.

Despite his noble intentions his actions brought harm to the country

Slavery brought harm to the country.

[Saiwana]

I haven't seen much evidence that John Brown was ever insane, except perhaps for the Harper's Ferry raid that was too grandiose in scale and logistically was too hard to pull off. During the "bleeding Kansas" portion of his life anyway- he backed a morally righteous cause. He successfully retaliated against a pro-slaver massacre of his kin and backed the Abolition side in Kansas, which ultimately won out. John Brown was one of the greats, ahead of his time.

While I'm sure that back then, there were a lot of excuses and factors biasing great portions of people to want to permit slavery, it was already on its way out in that it couldn't remain viable.

[A-10]

He was an insane person who helped start the civil war and kept violence going on in Kansas.

Despite his noble intentions his actions brought harm to the country

Slavery brought harm to the country.

Obviously slavery brought harm into America.

But he was terrible and reckless with his plans. Other abolitionists like Douglass saw his plans as foolish. So he did more harm than good.

[Galactic Powers]

What slaves? Trafficked humans? Slaves in other countries?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

He was an insane person who helped start the civil war and kept violence going on in Kansas.

Despite his noble intentions his actions brought harm to the country

Slavery brought harm to the country.

I’m assuming you are referring to the “except as a punishment” part of the 13th?

[Floofybit]

What slaves? Trafficked humans? Slaves in other countries?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

He was an insane person who helped start the civil war and kept violence going on in Kansas.

Despite his noble intentions his actions brought harm to the country

Slavery brought harm to the country.

What slavery?

[A-10]

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

Slavery brought harm to the country.

What slavery?

(Misunderstood what the post was talking about, ignore this post.)

[Ifreann]

Slavery brought harm to the country.

Obviously slavery brought harm into America.

But he was terrible and reckless with his plans. Other abolitionists like Douglass saw his plans as foolish. So he did more harm than good.

He didn't do any harm to the country. He might have done more good, but that doesn't mean that he did harm.

---

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

Slavery brought harm to the country.

I’m assuming you are referring to the “except as a punishment” part of the 13th?

Correct.

---

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

Slavery brought harm to the country.

What slavery?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

[Northern Seleucia]

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

---

Slavery brought harm to the country.

What slavery?

I think he's referring to FPI, which is basically a government corporation that pays prisoners like, 23 cents to a dollar something in prison jobs.

[Galiantus III]

What slaves? Trafficked humans? Slaves in other countries?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

I never cease to be amazed at how desperately far left extremists try to discredit the successes of abolitionists and the civil rights movement. True colors on full display, here.

You are obviously referring to how the 13th amendment allows for criminals to be punished by being subject to slavery or involuntary servitude. I see nothing wrong with the idea that people who harm the rights of rights of others implicitly forfeit some of their own analogous rights: A person who steals should be compelled as much as possible to restore what they stole, and cover the cost of all resources they consumed in their theft. A person who deprives others of their liberty, via kidnapping, rape, slavery, etc. should have their own liberty deprived - indeed, their victims would be justified in taking their lives in order to escape exploitation. And a person who kills or attempts to kill other people should be considered eligible for the death penalty, depending on the specific circumstances and the burden of proof.

In short, suggesting that slavery is still technically legal because the state is allowed to use it as punishment is like suggesting that murder is still legal because of the death penalty. The slavery of innocent people has been totally abolished, and that is the entire point.

[Northern Seleucia]

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

I never cease to be amazed at how desperately far left extremists try to discredit the successes of abolitionists and the civil rights movement. True colors on full display, here.

You are obviously referring to how the 13th amendment allows for criminals to be punished by being subject to slavery or involuntary servitude. I see nothing wrong with the idea that people who harm the rights of rights of others implicitly forfeit some of their own analogous rights: A person who steals should be compelled as much as possible to restore what they stole, and cover the cost of all resources they consumed in their theft. A person who deprives others of their liberty, via kidnapping, rape, slavery, etc. should have their own liberty deprived - indeed, their victims would be justified in taking their lives in order to escape exploitation. And a person who kills or attempts to kill other people should be considered eligible for the death penalty, depending on the specific circumstances and the burden of proof.

In short, suggesting that slavery is still technically legal because the state is allowed to use it as punishment is like suggesting that murder is still legal because of the death penalty. The slavery of innocent people has been totally abolished, and that is the entire point.

Wow. Nice argument, and I agree to the fullest.

[Galactic Powers]

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

I never cease to be amazed at how desperately far left extremists try to discredit the successes of abolitionists and the civil rights movement. True colors on full display, here.

You are obviously referring to how the 13th amendment allows for criminals to be punished by being subject to slavery or involuntary servitude. I see nothing wrong with the idea that people who harm the rights of rights of others implicitly forfeit some of their own analogous rights: A person who steals should be compelled as much as possible to restore what they stole, and cover the cost of all resources they consumed in their theft. A person who deprives others of their liberty, via kidnapping, rape, slavery, etc. should have their own liberty deprived - indeed, their victims would be justified in taking their lives in order to escape exploitation. And a person who kills or attempts to kill other people should be considered eligible for the death penalty, depending on the specific circumstances and the burden of proof.

In short, suggesting that slavery is still technically legal because the state is allowed to use it as punishment is like suggesting that murder is still legal because of the death penalty. The slavery of innocent people has been totally abolished, and that is the entire point.

This is mostly the view I hold I believe. Although I’m admittedly not researched enough into the topic. I will hopefully fix that soon, but the idea of it doesn’t anger me in anyway. Id assume its application isn’t perfect though since it’s America.


On the topic of John Brown, I’d say it’s not as complicated. He definitely did more good than bad. Yes he killed people and caused violence, but sometimes it’s justified. In the case of slavery, I’d say it was.

[Exarkyon]

Anti-hero.
The ends do not justify the means, and the intended ends (which Brown did not achieve) definitely do not justify the means.
The plan was also definitely not thought through adequately. There was no way it would go as intended.

[Floofybit]

Obviously slavery brought harm into America.

But he was terrible and reckless with his plans. Other abolitionists like Douglass saw his plans as foolish. So he did more harm than good.

He didn't do any harm to the country. He might have done more good, but that doesn't mean that he did harm.

---

I’m assuming you are referring to the “except as a punishment” part of the 13th?

Correct.

---

What slavery?

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

I can read. I want to know to what SPECIFIC slavery you were referring to.

[Xenon Prime]

Sometimes a terrorist is the hero.

[Neutraligon]

He didn't do any harm to the country. He might have done more good, but that doesn't mean that he did harm.

---

Correct.

---

The continuing practice of slavery in America, obviously. It was never abolished, just limited.

I can read. I want to know to what SPECIFIC slavery you were referring to.

It has already been mentioned by other posters, namely that convicted criminals can be enslaved.

[Floofybit]

I can read. I want to know to what SPECIFIC slavery you were referring to.

It has already been mentioned by other posters, namely that convicted criminals can be enslaved.

Ah, I thought they were referring to something else.