Gun Control 2023 - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

by **Greater Cesnica** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:36 pm

Hey there! Welcome to the fifth edition of the Gun Control Thread! For this edition, I've opted to split the OP into focusing on two separate ideas. Firstly, check out the new poll! Looking forward to the results :)

Important context on the new ATF pistol brace rule: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/pistol-b ... d-the-atf/

Secondly, below you can find a map showing a constantly updated status map for permitless concealed carry carry in the U.S, and specific details about each state. You can also find the latest iteration of this data at this link.

FBI Crime Statistics (Table 20) - Murder by State, Types of Weapons, 2019

Gonna fill this OP up with more content pretty soon :)

Previous Gun Control thread.

by **Floofybit** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:49 pm

First. I'm not actually great with guns, so that's all I have to say. I will say though, that I'm against banning guns

Edit: I forgot I ever said this lol

by **Greater Cesnica** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:56 pm

Floofybit wrote:First. I'm not actually great with guns, so that's all I have to say. I will say though, that I'm against banning guns

And that's good!

by **Pax Nerdvana** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:00 pm

Smells like Hoppe’s No 9

by **Zanderlock** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:00 pm

As somebody who does not own a gun seeing as how they are a 16-year-old, I will take great pleasure when, inevitably, I come back to this thread in about 2 days or so and watch a bunch of people yelling at each other over a political simulator while the other 98% of us just watch in pity and amazement.

"We LiVe iN A SoCiETy!"

by **-Astoria-** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:04 pm

Q: I live in a state that has an SBR ban…so what now?

A: The ATF refuses to comment on state laws and suggests you speak to the attorney general of your state for next steps. That said, if you submit any Form 1 in a state with an SBR ban, the application will be denied by the ATF.

So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?

by **Greater Cesnica** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:05 pm

Zanderlock wrote:As somebody who does not own a gun seeing as how they are a 16-year-old, I will take great pleasure when, inevitably, I come back to this thread in about 2 days or so and watch a bunch of people yelling at each other over a political simulator while the other 98% of us just watch in pity and amazement.

"We LiVe iN A SoCiETy!"

Well there's no such thing as live and let live anymore, unfortunately.

by **Greater Cesnica** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:06 pm

-Astoria- wrote:So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Yes.

-Astoria- wrote:Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?

Well the ATF is looking to fuck over gun owners, not shield them. That's why they brought out this new rule.

by **American Legionaries** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:18 pm

-Astoria- wrote:
Q: I live in a state that has an SBR ban…so what now?

A: The ATF refuses to comment on state laws and suggests you speak to the attorney general of your state for next steps. That said, if you submit any Form 1 in a state with an SBR ban, the application will be denied by the ATF.

So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?

The problem is that this isn't a new law. There's no bill that makes these things illegal all of a sudden that could have a grandfather clause attached. The bill that makes these "rifles" all illegal was passed nearly a century ago, this is just the ATF suddenly deciding that they were actually wrong before, and that now they have divined the truth of how rifles work, and your "braced pistol" is actually an illegally acquired SBR and neither the ATF, or you knew it all this time.

by **Techocracy101010** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:26 pm

we need to dismantle the atfe and nfa.

by **American Legionaries** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:31 pm

Techocracy101010 wrote:we need to dismantle the atfe and nfa.

We need to dismantle the NFA for sure, what the ATF needs is prosecution.

by **-Astoria-** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:36 pm

American Legionaries wrote:The problem is that this isn't a new law. There's no bill that makes these things illegal all of a sudden that could have a grandfather clause attached. The bill that makes these "rifles" all illegal was passed nearly a century ago, this is just the ATF suddenly deciding that they were actually wrong before, and that now they have divined the truth of how rifles work, and your "braced pistol" is actually an illegally acquired SBR and neither the ATF, or you knew it all this time.

If so, then they certainly took their sweet time to come to that realisation.

I don't suppose they're going to institute a buyback programme any time soon, either.

by **Nanatsu no Tsuki** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:44 pm

——-redacted——- Wrong gun thread. Sorry.

by **Ancient Poland** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:01 pm

Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.

by **Arengin Union** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:02 pm

Miller v Bonta decision is nearing for hopefully this week, I'm extremely excited to see how this all turns out and if the 9th Circuit will try some bullshit.

by **Grinning Dragon** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:14 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.

NO!

by **Ancient Poland** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:15 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.

NO!

It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

by **American Legionaries** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:19 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:NO!

It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

How would these things be ineffective?

by **Ancient Poland** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:20 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

How would these things be ineffective?

Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.

by **American Legionaries** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:22 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
How would these things be ineffective?

Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.

Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.

by **Ancient Poland** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:23 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.

Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.

If that's the goal of Biden and Co., then they're even crazier than I thought.

by **Grinning Dragon** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:26 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:NO!

It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".

by **American Legionaries** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:27 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.

If that's the goal of Biden and Co., then they're even crazier than I thought.

Indeed.

by **Ancient Poland** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:29 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".

So, your take is all gun laws should be repealed? Including the ones enacted in 1986, 1968, 1935?

by **Grinning Dragon** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:30 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".

So, your take is all gun laws should be repealed? Including the ones enacted in 1986, 1968, 1935?

YES. Fuck gun control.

Gun Control 2023 - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

Which state will adopt permitless concealed carry next?

Gun Control 2023 - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

I Am Calling It Now!

Who is online