NATION

PASSWORD

Gun Control 2023 - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which state will adopt permitless concealed carry next?

North Carolina
13
65%
Nevada
7
35%
 
Total votes : 20

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8980
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Gun Control 2023 - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:36 pm

Hey there! Welcome to the fifth edition of the Gun Control Thread! For this edition, I've opted to split the OP into focusing on two separate ideas. Firstly, check out the new poll! Looking forward to the results :)

Important context on the new ATF pistol brace rule: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/pistol-b ... d-the-atf/

Secondly, below you can find a map showing a constantly updated status map for permitless concealed carry carry in the U.S, and specific details about each state. You can also find the latest iteration of this data at this link.

Image

  • Alabama (PC-21)
  • Alaska (PC-21)
  • Arizona (PC-21)
  • Arkansas (PC-18)
  • Florida (PC-21)
  • Georgia (PC-21 years old or 18 for military)
  • Idaho (PC-18)
  • Indiana (PC-18)
  • Iowa (PC-21)
  • Kansas (PC-21)
  • Kentucky (PC-21)
  • Louisiana (PC-21) effective July 4th, 2024
  • Maine (PC-21)
  • Mississippi (PC-21)
  • Missouri (PC-19 or 18 for military)
  • Montana (PC-18)
  • Nebraska (PC-21)
  • New Hampshire (PC-18)
  • North Dakota (PC-18)
  • Ohio (PC-21)
  • Oklahoma (PC-21 or 18 for military)
  • South Carolina (PC-18)
  • South Dakota (PC-18)
  • Tennessee (PC-18)
  • Texas (PC-21)
  • Utah (PC-21)
  • Vermont (PC-18)
  • West Virginia (PC-21)
  • Wyoming (PC-21)

FBI Crime Statistics (Table 20) - Murder by State, Types of Weapons, 2019

Gonna fill this OP up with more content pretty soon :)

Previous Gun Control thread.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:36 pm, edited 16 times in total.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
My IFAK and Booboo Kit Starter Guide!
novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

User avatar
Floofybit
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8720
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:49 pm

First. I'm not actually great with guns, so that's all I have to say. I will say though, that I'm against banning guns

Edit: I forgot I ever said this lol
Last edited by Floofybit on Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Compass: Northwest
Reformative Authoritarian Pacifist
Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male furry who really, really, really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
My political test results
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8980
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:56 pm

Floofybit wrote:First. I'm not actually great with guns, so that's all I have to say. I will say though, that I'm against banning guns

And that's good!
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
My IFAK and Booboo Kit Starter Guide!
novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

User avatar
Pax Nerdvana
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15726
Founded: May 22, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:00 pm

Smells like Hoppe’s No 9
The Internet killed gun control.
Profile
Quotes
We Will Not Comply
They can’t stop the Signal
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin or a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on stuff you want in a gun

User avatar
Zanderlock
Envoy
 
Posts: 203
Founded: Nov 07, 2022
Ex-Nation

I Am Calling It Now!

Postby Zanderlock » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:00 pm

As somebody who does not own a gun seeing as how they are a 16-year-old, I will take great pleasure when, inevitably, I come back to this thread in about 2 days or so and watch a bunch of people yelling at each other over a political simulator while the other 98% of us just watch in pity and amazement.

"We LiVe iN A SoCiETy!"
Titles, Awards, And Other Achievements
Certified Laforeia Defender And Duck Loyalist QUACK
Professional Dumbass
Government Approved Joke Understanding Degree (Can Understand And Make Jokes)
Certified Meme Poster (Not Necessarily GOOD)
Master’s Degree In Cringe
I only have 7 lines, and have counted. In advance for any reports that could be made.

User avatar
-Astoria-
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5537
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby -Astoria- » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:04 pm

Q: I live in a state that has an SBR ban…so what now?

A: The ATF refuses to comment on state laws and suggests you speak to the attorney general of your state for next steps. That said, if you submit any Form 1 in a state with an SBR ban, the application will be denied by the ATF.

So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?
                                                      Republic of Astoria | Pobolieth Asdair                                                      
Bedhent cewsel ein gweisiau | Our deeds shall speak
IC: FactbooksLocationEmbassiesFAQIntegrity | OOC: CCL's VP • 9th in NSFB#110/10: DGES
 ⌜✉⌟ TV1 News | 2023-04-11  ▶ ⬤──────── (LIVE) |  Headlines  Winter out; spring in for public parks • Environment ministry announces A₤300m in renewables subsidies • "Not enough," say unions on A₤24m planned Govt cost-of-living salary supplement |  Weather  Liskerry ⛅ 13° • Altas ⛅ 10° • Esterpine ☀ 11° • Naltgybal ☁ 14° • Ceirtryn ⛅ 19° • Bynscel ☀ 11° • Lyteel ☔ 9° |  Traffic  ROADWORKS: WRE expwy towards Port Trelyn closed; use Routes P294 northbound; P83 southbound 

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8980
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:05 pm

Zanderlock wrote:As somebody who does not own a gun seeing as how they are a 16-year-old, I will take great pleasure when, inevitably, I come back to this thread in about 2 days or so and watch a bunch of people yelling at each other over a political simulator while the other 98% of us just watch in pity and amazement.

"We LiVe iN A SoCiETy!"

Well there's no such thing as live and let live anymore, unfortunately.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
My IFAK and Booboo Kit Starter Guide!
novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8980
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:06 pm

-Astoria- wrote:So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Yes.
-Astoria- wrote:Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?

Well the ATF is looking to fuck over gun owners, not shield them. That's why they brought out this new rule.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
My IFAK and Booboo Kit Starter Guide!
novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

User avatar
American Legionaries
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12448
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:18 pm

-Astoria- wrote:
Q: I live in a state that has an SBR ban…so what now?

A: The ATF refuses to comment on state laws and suggests you speak to the attorney general of your state for next steps. That said, if you submit any Form 1 in a state with an SBR ban, the application will be denied by the ATF.

So this means that if one happens to have an existing firearm abruptly change status as a result, they would no longer be able to keep it in such states?

Sounds like a bit of a glaring error in terms of federal-state relations: could a grandfather clause (or non-retroactivity) not be put to avoid this scenario?


The problem is that this isn't a new law. There's no bill that makes these things illegal all of a sudden that could have a grandfather clause attached. The bill that makes these "rifles" all illegal was passed nearly a century ago, this is just the ATF suddenly deciding that they were actually wrong before, and that now they have divined the truth of how rifles work, and your "braced pistol" is actually an illegally acquired SBR and neither the ATF, or you knew it all this time.

User avatar
Techocracy101010
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1298
Founded: May 04, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Techocracy101010 » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:26 pm

we need to dismantle the atfe and nfa.

User avatar
American Legionaries
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12448
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:31 pm

Techocracy101010 wrote:we need to dismantle the atfe and nfa.


We need to dismantle the NFA for sure, what the ATF needs is prosecution.

User avatar
-Astoria-
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5537
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby -Astoria- » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:36 pm

American Legionaries wrote:The problem is that this isn't a new law. There's no bill that makes these things illegal all of a sudden that could have a grandfather clause attached. The bill that makes these "rifles" all illegal was passed nearly a century ago, this is just the ATF suddenly deciding that they were actually wrong before, and that now they have divined the truth of how rifles work, and your "braced pistol" is actually an illegally acquired SBR and neither the ATF, or you knew it all this time.

If so, then they certainly took their sweet time to come to that realisation.

I don't suppose they're going to institute a buyback programme any time soon, either.
                                                      Republic of Astoria | Pobolieth Asdair                                                      
Bedhent cewsel ein gweisiau | Our deeds shall speak
IC: FactbooksLocationEmbassiesFAQIntegrity | OOC: CCL's VP • 9th in NSFB#110/10: DGES
 ⌜✉⌟ TV1 News | 2023-04-11  ▶ ⬤──────── (LIVE) |  Headlines  Winter out; spring in for public parks • Environment ministry announces A₤300m in renewables subsidies • "Not enough," say unions on A₤24m planned Govt cost-of-living salary supplement |  Weather  Liskerry ⛅ 13° • Altas ⛅ 10° • Esterpine ☀ 11° • Naltgybal ☁ 14° • Ceirtryn ⛅ 19° • Bynscel ☀ 11° • Lyteel ☔ 9° |  Traffic  ROADWORKS: WRE expwy towards Port Trelyn closed; use Routes P294 northbound; P83 southbound 

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 203770
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:44 pm

——-redacted——- Wrong gun thread. Sorry.
Last edited by Nanatsu no Tsuki on Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Ancient Poland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Dec 05, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Ancient Poland » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:01 pm

Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.
Last edited by Ancient Poland on Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your resident leftist with a side of pro-gun views and real gender equality, not contrived equity.
I reject your morality and substitute my own.
Maturity is not conformity to societal expectations, but honest self examination and deliberate defiance of false imperatives, regardless of the consequences.

User avatar
Arengin Union
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8858
Founded: Feb 23, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Arengin Union » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:02 pm

Miller v Bonta decision is nearing for hopefully this week, I'm extremely excited to see how this all turns out and if the 9th Circuit will try some bullshit.
"I do as I please"
-King Abraham Markev final words before jumping into a cage to fight a lion.

Proud member of the Federation of Allies

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11110
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:14 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.

NO!
Last edited by Grinning Dragon on Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ancient Poland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Dec 05, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Ancient Poland » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:15 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:Codify the bump stock ban. Impose an NFA style fee or whatever, but make it more nominal than in 1935, have a national registry of AR-15s, do a waiting period for all firearms, and leave it at that. Even that won't really solve anything, but neither would a ban. This will shut people up for a while, at least until the next shooting, but at least it might slow the momentum for more gun control and any push for confiscation. The irony is that far more handguns are used in actual violent crimes than so-called "assault weapons" or whatever.

NO!


It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"
Last edited by Ancient Poland on Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your resident leftist with a side of pro-gun views and real gender equality, not contrived equity.
I reject your morality and substitute my own.
Maturity is not conformity to societal expectations, but honest self examination and deliberate defiance of false imperatives, regardless of the consequences.

User avatar
American Legionaries
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12448
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:19 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:NO!


It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"


How would these things be ineffective?

User avatar
Ancient Poland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Dec 05, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Ancient Poland » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:20 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"


How would these things be ineffective?


Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.
Your resident leftist with a side of pro-gun views and real gender equality, not contrived equity.
I reject your morality and substitute my own.
Maturity is not conformity to societal expectations, but honest self examination and deliberate defiance of false imperatives, regardless of the consequences.

User avatar
American Legionaries
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12448
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:22 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
How would these things be ineffective?


Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.


Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.

User avatar
Ancient Poland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Dec 05, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Ancient Poland » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:23 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
Because we're already so awash in guns now that nothing would work. Even if they went crazy with confiscation, all it would get them was a bloodbath.


Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.


If that's the goal of Biden and Co., then they're even crazier than I thought.
Your resident leftist with a side of pro-gun views and real gender equality, not contrived equity.
I reject your morality and substitute my own.
Maturity is not conformity to societal expectations, but honest self examination and deliberate defiance of false imperatives, regardless of the consequences.

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11110
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:26 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:NO!


It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".

User avatar
American Legionaries
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12448
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:27 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Sounds like a success if your goal is a bloodbath.


If that's the goal of Biden and Co., then they're even crazier than I thought.


Indeed.

User avatar
Ancient Poland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Dec 05, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Ancient Poland » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:29 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Ancient Poland wrote:
It represents the extreme limit of what gun control I can tolerate. Nothing further than that. Especially since I'm convinced that it will be highly ineffective. Frankly unenforceable. Then we can point to it and say, "See, it didn't work, did it? How about we quit while we're ahead?"

Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".


So, your take is all gun laws should be repealed? Including the ones enacted in 1986, 1968, 1935?
Your resident leftist with a side of pro-gun views and real gender equality, not contrived equity.
I reject your morality and substitute my own.
Maturity is not conformity to societal expectations, but honest self examination and deliberate defiance of false imperatives, regardless of the consequences.

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11110
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:30 pm

Ancient Poland wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:Congratulations, now you've got even more shit unconstitutional laws fucking over the citizenry while the crims just laugh at the dumb assess complying, mean while what took a few moments to put into law is going to take years to undo. I don't know if you haven't noticed but when govt gets a piece of more and more power, they sure as hell ain't gonna give it up, the goal should be repealing every damn gun law on the books not to add more and say "well that didn't work".


So, your take is all gun laws should be repealed? Including the ones enacted in 1986, 1968, 1935?

YES. Fuck gun control.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 0rganization, Herador, Ifreann, Kaumudeen, Saint Kanye, Shrillland, Statesburg, The Jamesian Republic, Tiami, Umeria, Zetaopalatopia

Advertisement

Remove ads