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Why are Fascist Countries / Regions so hated?

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Arkhengelskz
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Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Why are Fascist Countries / Regions so hated?

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:46 pm

Firstly, yes I understand the stigma. I know the country everyone's mind jumps to when they hear, "Fascism" but to make things clear I am not, nor would I ever even roleplay as or pretend to be, a nazi. Nor am I glorifying them. Facism =/= nazism. There are plenty of other horrible ideologies and government systems allowed on here, dicatorships, communists, terrorists, etc. So why are fascists singled out? Hasn't every ideology done horrible things at some point? Besides, it's just a game. Not meant to be taken seriously.

I understand raids are part of the game, but I don't think they were originally intended to exist / happen? Correct me if that's wrong. Anyway, I'm all for raids when they're on a large scale and have some cool lore and reasons behind it, but that's not what me (or others) typically experience.

Fascist regions are targeted before they get very large, so there is no "huge epic raid." What ends up happening is one nation requests privilleges, an embassy, etc. and do a really lame infiltration into the region. Then boom, region is taken over and turned into a dead vassal state. I feel like if all these abandoned "puppet" regions were removed, it would help the servers. I hate trying to find regions only for the all to be raided and abandoned. (This applies to all regions, not just fascist ones)

Finally there is no reason most of the time for the raid / takeover. It equates to "fascism bad" and that's about it. I can understand why people think that way, but again, it's a game. You can be horrible, or benevolent. But, however you chose to play, you shouldn't have the right nor ability to ruin someone else's fun because you don't agree with how they've decided to play the game.

I'm not looking for sympathy (well I kinda am) but rather just some understanding besides the generic "fascism bad IRL, so not acceptable in game either" mindset most people on here seem to have.

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The Unknown Army
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Unknown Army » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:19 pm

Because fascism at its very core is violent, divisive, imperialistic, and oppressive. It promotes the conquest and genocide of others to establish state superiority and seeks to end individual freedoms of its own people to instill ultra-nationalism, sometimes via horrendous methods.

It is a cruel and unusual set of ideals born from desperation and anger and history has proven it's basically a lose-lose situation for all involved.
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Albrook
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Albrook » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:32 pm

Fash regions make actual fascists think they’re welcome and are permitted to politick here. Indeed, the region was probably only intended for edgy roleplay, but those who conduct those “raids” can tell better stories than I can of actual fascists among us.

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Fort Concord
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Fort Concord » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:33 pm

Albrook wrote:Fash regions make actual fascists think they’re welcome and are permitted to politick here. Indeed, the region was probably only intended for edgy roleplay, but those who conduct those “raids” can tell better stories than I can of actual fascists among us.

Even so, I can probably count the amount of times "we're just roleplaying" turned out to actually just be roleplaying on one hand, and I've been here nearly 7 years personally.
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The Great Nevada Overlord
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Postby The Great Nevada Overlord » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:35 pm

I've seen the FC and they are real fascists.

Their friends? Also real fascists.

So probably because the majority of fash regions are actually fascist.

Be like me, be fash for the NS luls.
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Raskana
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Raskana » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:36 pm

It makes sense, fascism is very bad, but I still think its weird that Stalinist tankists are completely accepted, as are supporters of the Kim regime in North Korea.
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Striagro Uspil
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Striagro Uspil » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:36 pm

Someone similar made a post as to why and I shall give you the same answer I did back then.

Striagro Uspil wrote:
Flemmingburg wrote:I'm a relatively new player, but I know I can't be the only one wondering why in a fictional internet game where you can be as tyrannical, corrupt, and dictator-y as you want why fascists get such a bad reputation? Regions get raided and / or taken over and nations get condemned or are dis-allowed from joining some regions. I honestly don't get it. Sure fascists are bad in real life and did horrible stuff, but so have communists. Hell, almost every single ideology has done something horrible at some point. I'm not arguing in its favor, but simply that people on here should be able to truly play as the bad guys without being subject to pretentious crusading.

The reason is because Nationstates is not created in a vacuum. It's a game inhabited by individuals who live in an era when Western culture and society puts fascism under heavy and intense scrutiny while other ideologies like Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism are generally viewed with more favor (depending on who you ask). Due to this inherent bias (for better or worse) the average Nationstates player is going to be more sensitive to fascism spreading on the website rather than other ideologies spreading.
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Fifth Jellian Republic
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Tyranny by Majority

Postby Fifth Jellian Republic » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:38 pm

The other bad things are mostly relegated to the past.
Meanwhile fascism is the star of new problems the world is having.
Fascism is the contemporary villain.
Last edited by Fifth Jellian Republic on Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zaeylia
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Postby Zaeylia » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:46 pm

Because they aren't Fascist, they're a front for NatSoc. They don't use futurist aesthetics, they use NatSoc aesthetics. They don't attempt to implement corporatism, extracontinentalism, party-serve-state or any other Fascist ideals. They implement autocracy with NatSoc ideals.
Much like their critics, they don't know what Fascism is nor what it's supposed to look like. "Big bad" trope is assumed if any type of roleplay or regional identity is even attempted.
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Arkhengelskz
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Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:36 pm

The Unknown Army wrote:Because fascism at its very core is violent, divisive, imperialistic, and oppressive. It promotes the conquest and genocide of others to establish state superiority and seeks to end individual freedoms of its own people to instill ultra-nationalism, sometimes via horrendous methods.

It is a cruel and unusual set of ideals born from desperation and anger and history has proven it's basically a lose-lose situation for all involved.


I agree completely, but that really doesn't give good reason. There are many other horrible ideologies accepted here. (In the context of roleplay) Such as terrorism, (for obvious reasons) and things like communism. (For more complicated reasons)

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Arkhengelskz
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Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:45 pm

Striagro Uspil wrote:Someone similar made a post as to why and I shall give you the same answer I did back then.

Striagro Uspil wrote:The reason is because Nationstates is not created in a vacuum. It's a game inhabited by individuals who live in an era when Western culture and society puts fascism under heavy and intense scrutiny while other ideologies like Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism are generally viewed with more favor (depending on who you ask). Due to this inherent bias (for better or worse) the average Nationstates player is going to be more sensitive to fascism spreading on the website rather than other ideologies spreading.


I know that guy lol.

But anyway, while I understand that is there anyway to avoid that besides just forever being a small region? I wish I could just get more people to understand that some people want to play the "bad guy" as Flemmingburg said, with no extra strings attached. When you play a multiplayer WW2 game set in places where the Germans fought, someone has to play the Germans right? I feel like in general we have vilified fascists (specifically nazis) while ignoring other groups that were bad, if not worse. Not saying we shouldn't vilify nazis, don't get it twisted, but rather take the example of WW2 Japan. Should we not also recoil in disgust when someone says they're a Japanese Imperialist? Or treat them the same way we treat Nazis / Fascists / NeoNazis now?

Personally, I wouldn't mind the cracking down on Fascist players if we treated every horrible group / ideology this way. If that sounds unfun or buzzkill-y, well then now you see my point.

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New Bradfordsburg
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby New Bradfordsburg » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:46 pm

I'd like to offer a response from (what I consider the best wording that addresses this) a very well-written Antifa dispatch. This language speaks for my viewpoint wholeheartedly on this issue:

"The internet is a good platform for fascists to spread their kind of hatred and, it is in the interest of all of us to prevent this movement of hatred and discrimination from growing by recruiting here. Whether roleplayed or real doesn't matter, if it contributes to the spread of fascist ideas, it needs to be curtailed and denied a platform."

That pretty much sums it up.
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United Bongo States of America
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Founded: May 30, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Bongo States of America » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:47 pm

Fascism is on the rise in our region.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:51 pm

Arkhengelskz wrote:Firstly, yes I understand the stigma.

Frankly, you've kinda answered your question in just the first sentence alone.
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Soviet Adia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Soviet Adia » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:55 pm

This is actually a really good question, NS has plenty of terrible ideologies that are allowed here, also to the whole "most are not showing fascism, just Nat-soc/Nazism" is really stupid that like saying "most communist nations are bad, so they all are" how about we don't target an entire ideology and instead target individuals for acting that way.

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Durius
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Anarchy

Postby Durius » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:58 pm

Arkhengelskz wrote:Hasn't every ideology done horrible things at some point?

Uh? No!

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Arkhengelskz
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:02 pm

Durius wrote:
Arkhengelskz wrote:Hasn't every ideology done horrible things at some point?

Uh? No!


Statistically that's probably impossible for any major ideology to have not done anything horrible ever.

Theocracies, Dictatorships, Capitalist countries, Communist Countries, Socialist Countries, Kingdoms, Other Monarchies, Tribes, Empires, Syndicalists, Anarchists, Republics, etc, etc.

Basically no ideology is completely innocent. Not saying we should treat ideologies based off the worst thing that someone / a group claiming to be part of that ideology has done, but to say that some have never done anything bad? Objectively false.

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Soviet Adia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Soviet Adia » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:08 pm

Durius wrote:
Arkhengelskz wrote:Hasn't every ideology done horrible things at some point?

Uh? No!

Lets see, Communism: gulags, regional starvation and basically forced labor; Democracy: has not caused anything directly, but Democratic countries have done some terrible stuff; Fascism: genocide; Anarchists: this one is pretty self-explanatory; Socialism: same as Democracy; Capitalism: work or die from, starvation, lethal injury, dehydration, jailed for homelessness, etc; Monarchies/dictatorships: restricted freedoms, genocide.

plenty of ideologies have done some some bad things, if there was a perfect ideology there wouldnt be so many problems in the world
Last edited by Soviet Adia on Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Great Nevada Overlord
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Great Nevada Overlord » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:11 pm

Soviet Adia wrote:
Durius wrote:Uh? No!

Lets see, Communism: gulags, regional starvation and basically forced labor; Democracy: has not caused anything directly, but Democratic countries have done some terrible stuff; Fascism: genocide; Anarchists: this one is pretty self-explanatory; Socialism: same as Democracy; Capitalism: work or die from, starvation, lethal injury, dehydration, jailed for homelessness, etc; Monarchies/dictatorships: restricted freedoms, genocide.

plenty of ideologies have done some some bad things, if there was a perfect ideology there wouldnt be so many problems in the world


There is a perfect ideology and it's called the teachings of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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The Astral Mandate
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Astral Mandate » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:15 pm

Soviet Adia wrote:
Durius wrote:Uh? No!

Lets see, Communism: gulags, regional starvation and basically forced labor; Democracy: has not caused anything directly, but Democratic countries have done some terrible stuff; Fascism: genocide; Anarchists: this one is pretty self-explanatory; Socialism: same as Democracy; Capitalism: work or die from, starvation, lethal injury, dehydration, jailed for homelessness, etc; Monarchies/dictatorships: restricted freedoms, genocide.

plenty of ideologies have done some some bad things, if there was a perfect ideology there wouldnt be so many problems in the world


Examples:
Communism: The Great Purge
Democracy: The Pahlavi Dynasty of Iran
Fascism: Do I even need to give an example here?
Anarchists: Basically don't exist
Socialism: Communism is a form of socialism, so The Great Purge applies here too
Capitalism: Same as Democracy, but capitalism was the direct cause of it
Monarchists: Belgian Congo
Dictatorships: Same as Communism and Fascism
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United Bongo States of America
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby United Bongo States of America » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:16 pm

Soviet Adia wrote:
Durius wrote:Uh? No!

Lets see, Communism: gulags, regional starvation and basically forced labor; Democracy: has not caused anything directly, but Democratic countries have done some terrible stuff; Fascism: genocide; Anarchists: this one is pretty self-explanatory; Socialism: same as Democracy; Capitalism: work or die from, starvation, lethal injury, dehydration, jailed for homelessness, etc; Monarchies/dictatorships: restricted freedoms, genocide.

plenty of ideologies have done some some bad things, if there was a perfect ideology there wouldnt be so many problems in the world

There is a perfect ideology. It is referred to as Jesus Christ's teachings. 

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Free Algerstonia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Free Algerstonia » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:17 pm

United Bongo States of America wrote:
Soviet Adia wrote:Lets see, Communism: gulags, regional starvation and basically forced labor; Democracy: has not caused anything directly, but Democratic countries have done some terrible stuff; Fascism: genocide; Anarchists: this one is pretty self-explanatory; Socialism: same as Democracy; Capitalism: work or die from, starvation, lethal injury, dehydration, jailed for homelessness, etc; Monarchies/dictatorships: restricted freedoms, genocide.

plenty of ideologies have done some some bad things, if there was a perfect ideology there wouldnt be so many problems in the world

There is a perfect ideology. It is referred to as Jesus Christ's teachings. 

the only law worth following on nationstates is biblical law
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Arkhengelskz
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Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:17 pm

United Bongo States of America wrote:Fascism is on the rise in our region.


Hey, If that's a problem for you feel free to send them over to me. My region is always open.

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Arkhengelskz
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Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Arkhengelskz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:18 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:
United Bongo States of America wrote:There is a perfect ideology. It is referred to as Jesus Christ's teachings. 

the only law worth following on nationstates is biblical law


As a religious person, specifically a Christian, people have done plenty of horrible things in the name of Christianity, and in the name of religion as a whole. There's nothing wrong with Christianity as an ideology, but we can't ignore the fact that many bad things have been done under it's banner.

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New Bradfordsburg
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Founded: Jun 13, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby New Bradfordsburg » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:25 pm

Arkhengelskz wrote:As a religious person, specifically a Christian, people have done plenty of horrible things in the name of Christianity, and in the name of religion as a whole. There's nothing wrong with Christianity as an ideology, but we can't ignore the fact that many bad things have been done under it's banner.


Now comments like this are starting to sound like apologism for fascism and less like you were posing a legitimate question. More of a leading one. Rather disingenuous if you ask me.
Last edited by New Bradfordsburg on Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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