[PASSED] Protecting Objectors in Combative Military Service

[Apatosaurus]

Supposedly nice liberal reform within a brutal, disciplinarian institution. Pretentious! Abstain!

"Ambassador, I will not stand here being accused of duplicity simply for working towards the goal of this body to improve the multiverse. That the World Assembly has previously passed legislation -- or engaged in some other action somehow making it seem 'brutal' and 'disciplinarian' -- which you disagree with does not mean that we should not enact legislation which improved the world."

"I would also like to hear reasons that this body is so 'brutal' and 'disciplinarian'. If it truly is so evil, why are you participating in it, and willingly subjecting your own nation to its laws?"

[Pearl of the Southeast Asia]

"Has your nation considered how forced military service affects the rights of individuals subject to it?"

Giving up your sovereignty and protection of your citizen for people's comfortability? Is that what you wanted?
There is no way we can just give those up as threats are imposed all around our region/nation.

"Yes, the welfare of your citizens is by far more important than a few individuals being able to stay in power. Although your nation should take into account the facts stated in the second clause of the preamble -- even if it was more important that your government stays in power, conscripting conscientious objectors will still not help you further your military goals."

First off, the second clause of the preamble is subjective since there's a lot of factors plays along to figure out cause of demoralization of a military.

Second, the welfare of your citizen will be nothing if it cannot be protected from foreign and domestic threats. Especially in a small country which lacks on the number of their armed forces, conscription might be a strategy they need to make to defend their nation.

Third, "This resolution does not prohibit member nations from enforcing forced military service in compliance with Sections 1 and 2. Yet, regardless of the other provisions of this resolution, the World Assembly shall maintain the power to further restrict forced military service by resolution." This is part of the resolution is an attack towards the rights of nations defending themselves.

There is a better way to protect the rights of the Conscientious Objectors.
- They can be called for a trial or a court martial where they have the rights to an attorney and defend themself from the punishments if they try to petition in that court.
- Make sure conscription doesn't infringe anyone basic fundamental rights, except as necessary for maintaining discipline, security, and order within the armed forces or national defense organizations.

This way, no one can easily abuse this resolution or the conscription itself.

[Kaprein]

Article 2 says "Such an objection may only be voided by the individual in question. Further, no person may be penalised for expressing, holding, or failing to void, such an objection." Under this definition, punishing a conscript for expressing a false conscientious objection would be prevented as it is penalising someone for failing to void an objection. as "no person may be penalised for expressing, holding, or failing to void". If an exception is implied in the resolution, it shows that this resolution is flawed because the exception is not clearly included.

Harry Adler, Permanent Representative of Kaprein to the World Assembly

“Your Excellency, the second clause states that this applies to ‘such an objection’. ‘Such’ means that the objection must have some quality that has been referenced earlier. This quality is being bona fide, as is required in the first clause. I invite your Excellency to consider the following example: ‘All objections must be submitted in blue ink. Such objections must be carved in stone on the next Tuesday.’ This example plainly required that only objections written in blue ink need be carved in stone. The proposal, in simple terms, does something very similar: ‘All objections must be bona fide. Such objections cannot be voided.’”

The Republic of Kaprein still maintains its stance in opposition to this resolution. While your clarify is helpful, it doesn't change the fundamental purpose. Combining Article 3, as well as statements made in this forum, it is clear that the writers of this resolution want to further restrict conscription, and the Republic of Kaprein will never support an attack on its ability to defend itself, especially such a blatant one.

Harry Adler, Permanent Representative of Kaprein to the World Assembly

[Kaprein]

“World Assembly Delegate Siluvia wishes to express opposition to the proposal on behalf of Mitteleuropa and our allies in Southwest Pacific Region. We feel the proposal violates our rights to protect ourselves through the long-established and proven model of conscription.”

"Has your nation considered how forced military service affects the rights of individuals subject to it?"

Yay an excuse for me to not do that this resolution tells me to do

"This UN card may provide useful advice." The ambassador shows to the Galicia-Podolian ambassador, indeed, a UN card offering advice to non-compliant nations.

This is not a resolution to protect conscientious objectors. This is a resolution deliberately designed as an attack on conscription. There is no mechanism allowed in this resolution that requires a conscientious objector to prove that they are a genuine conscientious objector. Even if their claim is found to be bogus, article 2 does not allow a punishment to be put in place. It is inaccurate to call this about civil rights. It is about forcing disarmament on a nation by weakening their ability to fight.

Harry Adler, Permanent Representative of Kaprein to the World Assembly

"As much as we would like to see forced military service prohibited universally by the World Assembly, this particular resolution is of neither of such effect or of such intent. Although were legislation banning forced military service to be proposed, we would strongly support it."

There should be a judicial system for it to protect the objector and not just them quitting right away. Perhaps a Court Martial and a bit of a punishment as they weren't able to do the job they were assigned for the defense of the government

"Persons should not be punished for not wanting to kill."

In response to your first statement, have you considered that some nations either have traditions of conscription, and/or need it to defend themselves? What if there was a nation which needed everyone capable of fighting to defend itself from an invasion? Would you force it to fight with one hand tied behind its back?

In response to your second statement, if a nation's response to an argument is 'shut up about it or leave' instead of convincing the nation being spoken to about the merits of their argument, it says a lot about how much said nation is willing to genuinely engage on the topic. Despite this resolution being designed to weaken conscription and thus the defence of nations like Kaprein, the Republic of Kaprein will continue to debate it, instead of trying to prevent discussion.

In response to your third statement, I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove, but admitting you want conscription to be banned only reinforces my argument that this resolution isn't protecting people - it is just attacking conscription.

In response to your fourth statement, see the arguments made in my first statement?

Harry Adler, Permanent Representative of Kaprein to the World Assembly

[Galicia-Podolia]

According to what i understand, according to the resolution, Galicia-Podolia can still forcefully conscript people unless they have a good reason, and good reasons are subjective. And even if the resolution doesn't say that, there are some loopholes the president of Galicia-Podolia could use to still (kind of) not do what the resolution tells him to do without objectively not doing what the resolution tells him to do

[Galicia-Podolia]

And thus, even if the resolution is passed, (which it probably will be) the president could avoid the (unnecessary) restrictions this resolution imposes, without having to leave the world assembly.

[Rusvita]

Doesn't this basically make conscription/ drafting illegal? My country has forced conscription as a law. It's part of the "crazy dictatorship" rp. This kinda defeats the point of a lot of countries.

[Burgh Island]

Commonwealth of Burgh Island in Support of Protecting Objectors in Combative Military Service Resolution
10th of May 2023

---

After a careful review and an independent analysis, the representative to the General Assembly for the Commonwealth of Burgh Island is prepared to vote for Protecting Objectors in Combative Military Service.

"We believe that this resolution will benefit the Commonwealth and the world as a whole by promoting peace and non-violent conflict resolution. It may also increase respect for human rights and reduce instances of forced military service, which will ultimately lead to a safer and more peaceful world." said Raed Samara, the Commonwealth's representative to the General Assembly.

Read our full statement and analysis here.

---

Ministry for World Affairs | Ministrealachd Cüisean a Cruinne
Commonwealth of Burgh Island

[Starman of Stardust]

"Yes, the welfare of your citizens is by far more important than a few individuals being able to stay in power. Although your nation should take into account the facts stated in the second clause of the preamble -- even if it was more important that your government stays in power, conscripting conscientious objectors will still not help you further your military goals."

First off, the second clause of the preamble is subjective since there's a lot of factors plays along to figure out cause of demoralization of a military.

Second, the welfare of your citizen will be nothing if it cannot be protected from foreign and domestic threats. Especially in a small country which lacks on the number of their armed forces, conscription might be a strategy they need to make to defend their nation.

Third, "This resolution does not prohibit member nations from enforcing forced military service in compliance with Sections 1 and 2. Yet, regardless of the other provisions of this resolution, the World Assembly shall maintain the power to further restrict forced military service by resolution." This is part of the resolution is an attack towards the rights of nations defending themselves.

There is a better way to protect the rights of the Conscientious Objectors.
- They can be called for a trial or a court martial where they have the rights to an attorney and defend themself from the punishments if they try to petition in that court.
- Make sure conscription doesn't infringe anyone basic fundamental rights, except as necessary for maintaining discipline, security, and order within the armed forces or national defense organizations.

This way, no one can easily abuse this resolution or the conscription itself.

"Even if there are multiple causes for demoralisation of a military, conscription of conscientious objectors is one of them in nations which conscript conscientious objectors. Secondly, if the welfare of citizens is so dependent on military service, then very few citizens would be morally unable to help defend their nation. Thirdly, that provision is in fact defending the so-called rights of nations which subject their citizens to forced military service; they can still force military service, as long as they comply with the resolution, ie permit conscientious objection to combative service. The provision in the second sentence of that clause is only relevant for future legislation for which there must be a separate vote, and the legislation must receive the consent of the majority of the World Assembly. We note that the most recent attempt to prohibit forced military service by an established author in these halls did not even receive enough support to get to vote. Finally, prosecuting persons for having a conscientious objection has the same effect as making it illegal to conscientious object; so there is no reason to permit that."

"Has your nation considered how forced military service affects the rights of individuals subject to it?"


"This UN card may provide useful advice." The ambassador shows to the Galicia-Podolian ambassador, indeed, a UN card offering advice to non-compliant nations.


"As much as we would like to see forced military service prohibited universally by the World Assembly, this particular resolution is of neither of such effect or of such intent. Although were legislation banning forced military service to be proposed, we would strongly support it."


"Persons should not be punished for not wanting to kill."

In response to your first statement, have you considered that some nations either have traditions of conscription, and/or need it to defend themselves? What if there was a nation which needed everyone capable of fighting to defend itself from an invasion? Would you force it to fight with one hand tied behind its back?

In response to your second statement, if a nation's response to an argument is 'shut up about it or leave' instead of convincing the nation being spoken to about the merits of their argument, it says a lot about how much said nation is willing to genuinely engage on the topic. Despite this resolution being designed to weaken conscription and thus the defence of nations like Kaprein, the Republic of Kaprein will continue to debate it, instead of trying to prevent discussion.

In response to your third statement, I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove, but admitting you want conscription to be banned only reinforces my argument that this resolution isn't protecting people - it is just attacking conscription.

In response to your fourth statement, see the arguments made in my first statement?

Harry Adler, Permanent Representative of Kaprein to the World Assembly

"That something is a tradition in a member nation does not mean that it should be permitted; and, once again, not being able to conscript conscientious objection is not tying one hand behind its back, inasmuch as conscientious objectors will not only be poor soldiers, but they will bring down and demoralise the rest of the armed forces for hopefully obvious reasons; and especially considering that this proposal only affects conscription of conscientious objectors to combative military service. And the UN card is not encouraging leaving simply for disagreeing with policy; it is encouraging member nations to abide by the established conditions for World Assembly membership; every member nation must comply in good faith with all World Assembly law. This is formally codified in such resolutions as GA #440 and GA #654. Our third argument is to rebut the assertion that this is intended to ban forced military service. We would like to see it banned, but this resolution has no such effect. Section 3 indeed explicitly clarifies this. Although it is certainly interesting to see that you treat our statement as somehow being an admission of something evil; supporting the rights of victims of forced military service is not evil or wrong."

Doesn't this basically make conscription/ drafting illegal? My country has forced conscription as a law. It's part of the "crazy dictatorship" rp. This kinda defeats the point of a lot of countries.

Ooc: See Section 3; you can still have conscription, it just may not conscript conscientious objectors to combative roles.

[Galicia-Podolia]

IDK why resolutions like this exist. It'd be nice if you could be a psychotic dictatorship but at the same time be able to help shape the world. There should be less resolutions restricting what one can do with their nations. I'm probably going to try to repeal this in the future.

[The Ice States]

Protecting Objectors in Combative Military Service was passed 11,149 votes to 3,766.

For: 11,149: Gorundu (1,036), Tepertopia (750), Kethania (707), Imperium Anglorum (426), Lenlyvit (322), Fooooooooo (270), Sylh Alanor (221), Le Libertia (192), Mechanocracy (183), Podria (179), Socialist Platypus (168), Vinslott (114), South Boston Irishmen (110), Ruinenlust (97), Rayekka (87), Staidear (78), Ramelia (77), Wintermoot (71), Student Loan Debt (63), New United Common-lands (62), Nulkia (55), The Salaxalans (55), Mikeswill (55), The Litterbox (50), Candensia (41), Romanovskaya (39), Draganisia (36), Bearded Dragones (36), Tim Stark (35), Indusse (33), Particle (32), Lamoni (31), Sjevre (31), Oogway (28), Sanctaria (28), Gideon (27), Middle Ibarthelastorosa (27), Tostandia (26), Marim Grunzy (25), Suter (24), The Union of Costa Rica (23), Lave Deldederady (22), Sudoeste (22), Low Woodland (20), Swiftlandian Peoples Republic (20), Bering (20), Marxosia (19), Ignilacrim (18), Felix Femboi (17), Olinasha (17), Mlociniakik (16), Kingdom of Englands (13), Wolfs Brigade (12), Reino do Brazil (11), Baloo Kingdom (11), Untecna (11), Phydios (10), Ko-oren (10), Tinhampton (10), Catlibia (10), Koranz (9), Lennonia (9), Malamute (9), The Spanish Coast (9), Jibuti (9), Auxorii (9), Maynardstan (8), Madrocea (8), Allangoria of MT (8), Aura Banitia (8), CampbellBm (8), The United Arab Democracy (7), Newer Wadiya (7), OmegaShenron (7), Xinhao (7), SKM (7), Rulsolia (7), Hydroponic Nation (7), Rogue River (6), Santa Thereza (6), Astronia (6), The Grand Kingdom of Elsweyr (6), The Fedora (6), Mark (6), Davetopolis (6), Serentide (6), Comunist Land1 (6), Cheslezionia (6), Great Libertona (5), Chap Ven (5), Angladen (5), Delmond (5), Roznepal (5), The Perfect Utopian Society (5), Vennos (5), Weirdiron (5), Kater Cas (5), Flop-Tok (5), Otision (5), Merulla (5), Kartunesia (5), Heneraton (5), The Village Society (5), Regione Civium (5), Ulissebuerg (5), Toriniall (5), Zhensheng Xue (5), Vanika (5), Monaru Kharands (5), Kylarnatia (5), Olfasgesvet (5), Lefona (5), Voxija (4), Anarchy Central (4), Thunduria (4), Maltidor (4), Joeyist Union (4), Acelandia (4), Frontier Isles (4), New Furllumbia (4), Quasi-Stellar Star Civilizations (4), -Edinburgh- (4), Kovistanka (4), Radio TV Solutions (4), Reactorland (4), Rust Islands (4), The Soviet state of Svalbard (4), Omnia III (4), Nytocho (4), Nearly Finland (4), Twedin (4), Disgraces (4), Orepa (4), Tulamanapasatakalaha (4), Wabacha (4), Free Scandanavia (4), Northwesteastland (3), Weeb cult (3), Bialostan (3), Uvumbuzia (3), Astreopa (3), Xukong (3), Lysset (3), Glaazia (3), Noldorin Oron (3), HazahmKong (3), DoubleCross (3), Mission San Jose (3), Awesomeness (3), Kincones (3), Zwaarschoot (3), The Perfect Minds (3), Arazian (3), Jori Basu (3), Stata Pontificia (3), Stianeth Narcisse (3), Island of Avalon (3), Mini Orchs (3), Pirates and Buccaneers (3), Denathor (3), Imperial Holia Myzkaaria (3), 11 Templar Knights (3), Technoco (3), Holy Roman Empires2 (3), Nationuraniume (3), Arcurric (3), Alcala (3), DeniseKontaxes (3), Gandoor (3), Flor-Fina (3), Herby (3), Egosoc (3), Maltitalerland (3), Avtronia (3), Fannland (3), Mancel Rictor (3), Banotte (3), The Regalian Underland (3), Davidtopia (3), Tuesday Heights (2), Senselari (2), Free Woritanarbio Islands (2), The Ancient World (2), Seanat (2), Golanchia (2), Taipiastan (2), Boiled Eggs (2), United state of Oil (2), TopG II (2), Neutral Landland (2), Tyllep (2), Poliski (2), Some real criminal peeps (2), Northern Farlandia (2), Kolloquia (2), Glittering Green (2), Making Catgirls Real (2), Fleroviam (2), Namoon (2), IDK999 (2), Experience Eternal (2), Pogaria (2), Scandinavian Russia (2), His Excellency (2), Kingdom of Aurelia (2), Bonkberg (2), The Gula (2), Eberstein (2), Villianastan (2), EelFixwe (2), Eemeria (2), Fahran (2), CCFAE7 (2), Ardaea (2), Cyrodiilya (2), Mabanarlan (2), Potatolandia Nation (2), Chemgota (2), Sciandra (2), Ohio50 (2), Theoscafia (2), Whouppenburg (2), Neemz (2), Dogmenland (2), Char Aznable Neo Zeon (2), The National Asian Murderers (2), Xeknos (2), Pavariland (2), Molson Iceland (2), Imperial Felchah (2), Etoile Arcture (2), Oktotheio (2), The Yazhou Federation (2), Masmura (2), Sow Bug (2), Funktropolis (2), The Baraia (2), Kirzikstanz (2), Kingdom of Castille (2), The Neolithic German Empire (2), The Akasha Colony (2), C C C C P (2), Konia Astione (2), The Cure (2), 0cala (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Hetairaea (2), Lehqhbraot (2), Klean Kanteen (2), Sum Tash (2), Lafayett3 (2), Lackadaisia (2), Grass Fed Beans (2), NinjitsUtopia (2), Dolphinicus (2), Sedgistan (2), Ajams (2), The Kingdom of the Kekistan State (2), John Browns Kansas (2), Akiniad (2), Dabme (2), Polenika (2), Rowaniastan (2), CrossVegas (2), King Rankmore (2), Maroiogogistan (2), Draconic Fire (2), Shake Rag (2), Rammazro (2), Bungletop (2), People freedom China (2), Gandhara (2), Haytonian Empire (2), Reapertorium (2), Nationalist Yinmen (2), Kronardia (2), Pandyssia (2), Asurias (2), Kelzay (2), Toasteds (2), The Beanlands (2), Crotchia (2), Jimmystan (2), Czechostan (2), and (4,152) individual member nations.

Against: 3,766: Altys (532), Overthinkers (521), Minskiev (257), Malphe II (225), Vancouvia (76), Nova Cyanis (29), Kartof (22), NewTexas (22), Cruciland (20), Densaner (16), Thee Imperium 0f Man (13), Haltoria (13), Equa Lib (13), The United States of Naru (13), Hajirah (12), The Voltarum (11), Siluvia (11), Revengi (10), Grande pudimland (9), Coneiconia (9), The Dying Tree AB3 (9), Holy Anderele (9), The Bolivian Socialist Falange (9), Brocklandia (7), The Conglomeration of Federated States (7), GoldSilver918 (7), Wadelhelpia (6), Neu Fort Lux auf Kalinam die insel (6), South Sulphur (6), Albarusija (6), Mondworth (6), Demonos (6), Vegaga (6), Freependence (5), The Ruby Ranch Republic (5), Natzinville (5), The Palentine (5), The Sautekh Dynasty (5), Phoenicia- (5), Kabarovsk (5), Union of Soviet State Republics (5), Smart Duds (4), Chodean Kal (4), The Immortal Fire Nation (4), The 2nd Facepunch Republic (4), Nekomimea (4), Wobbegong (4), ColdHeartedBastards (4), Rookerand (4), Papacy Birds (4), Cosweland (4), Venova (4), Providemist Seclusa (4), EducatedPlum (4), Gatchina (4), Hustlertwo (3), Andibaz (3), Verlos (3), The Kingdom of New Riverland (3), Januus (3), The Asian Invasion (3), United Newpearl (3), Potatolan (3), Kleinekatzen (3), The Isles of Bermuda (3), The Campbell Nation (3), Simbatia (3), Lycantine (3), Eichanstein (3), Coronational Chechyans and affiliates (3), Brazil FS (3), Duck03 (3), Bernelia (3), Slythoria (3), Chi naa (3), TheSovietUnion (2), Great Shades (2), Lenthael (2), Tarlag (2), A Hive mind (2), Azabimidjan (2), The Terren Dominion (2), The Evolvan Republic (2), Naughty Slave Girls (2), Transsobor (2), Communo-Slavocia (2), Simulated Pain (2), Mitzvah (2), Leoland3 (2), Quiculin (2), New Autistica (2), The Imperial Kaiser of Greater Germany (2), The Gamers of Roblox (2), Papua new guine (2), Commune of Beta (2), The Omsk state (2), Audaxpericulosum (2), The Pope of Dillmarx (2), New Pan Am (2), Ancapitalist Wadiya (2), Apellidor (2), The Cienordia (2), Galactic Powers (2), Erthy (2), Very totally free (2), Duhhhmurica (2), Ian Topia (2), Sardon (2), Dunser (2), Nouvel Acadie (2), Germanic United States (2), NiCrawlosis (2), Outer Sta Therrouro (2), Federation of Sanghelios (2), Ronimbonland (2), The Divin Fist (2), Dytarma (2), New Bonglandia (2), Heesland (2), Smudges Followers (2), The Good Nation Of Americana Christening (2), Prennia (2), Tarkovregion (2), Cheems Doge (2), Marlandor (2), Malvator (2), GraySoap (2), The Elite Imperial Forces (2), The Combine Collective (2), Adeiatic (2), Skeep (2), Lacmhacarh (2), PAINFUL DEATHS (2), Zandalonia (2), Westphala (2), The Rising Aura (2), Djeeta (2), and (1,562) individual member nations.

[Contrarian Extraordinaire]

"Unfortunately, the Strange Reality is unable to comply with this resolution. All Contrarians, due to a defect in Contrarian evolution, conscientiously object to military service, and conscripting them is the only way we can have a military of any sort. If at any instant there is no military for Contrarian Extraordinaire, rebels arm themselves and attempt to destroy the Strange Reality."

"Your resolution has been officially wanked."