[QUORATE] Repeal "Military Freedom Act"

[Starman of Stardust]

"We have begun drafting a replacement."

The World Assembly,

Praising the ostensible goal of the resolution to protect conscientious objectors from being subject to forced military service, and accordingly noting that a replacement has already been fully drafted as to protect this goal upon repeal of the target, yet

Saddened that the resolution's definition of a "war of aggression" requires that said war be "initiated by the conscientious objector's nation", thus allowing member nations to force conscientious objectors to serve in combative roles to assist unjust wars of aggression by other nations,

Further noting that Article III, Section 4 also creates a major loophole, as it authorises member nations to force objectors to continue to serve in combative military duties for the rest of the original terms which they were assigned to serve for, so long as this is less than six months, which is plainly counterproductive to the protection of conscientious objectors,

Finding that coercing conscientious objectors to serve in military duties, even if for a limited period of time, is rarely helpful to a nation's military goals, as it would weaken the general morale of its armed forces and thereby hinder military goals, and

Believing that, as resolutions cannot be amended, the only way to address these problems is by repealing and replacing the target,

Repeals the "Military Freedom Act".

[Starman of Stardust]

While this may be difficult to understand from the first argument (judging by some of the replies in this thread), the argument there is that wars of aggression by third parties do not count as "wars of aggression". As a result, in for example the real-world Russian invasion of Ukraine, if Belarus conscripted conscientious objectors to support Russia's invasion, it would not be considered a "war of aggression" as it was not "initiated by" Belarus.

The World Assembly,

Praising the ostensible goal of the resolution to protect conscientious objectors from being subject to forced military service, and accordingly noting that a replacement has already been fully drafted as to protect this goal upon repeal of the target, yet

Saddened that the resolution's definition of a "war of aggression" requires that said war be "initiated by the conscientious objector's nation", meaning that member nations may coerce conscientious objectors to serve in combative military roles to participate in wars of aggression initiated by other nations,

Further noting that Article III, Section 4 is also a major loophole, as it authorises member nations to force objectors to continue to serve in combative military duties for the rest of the original terms which they were assigned to serve for, so long as this is less than six months, which is plainly counterproductive to the protection of conscientious objectors,

Concerned that the definition of a "combative military duty" is self-contradictory, as it is defined as "any duty wherein a person is required to directly cause injury or death to any person", yet explicitly includes "the equipping of weaponry to machines or vehicles", which would often be a labourous and time-consuming process yet not necessarily one which would involve directly engaging in combat,

Believing that, as resolutions cannot be amended, the only way to address these problems is via repeal of the target,

Repeals the "Military Freedom Act".

The World Assembly,

Praising the goal of the resolution to protect conscientious objectors from being subject to forced military service, and accordingly noting that a replacement has already been fully drafted as to protect this goal upon repeal of the target, yet

Saddened that the resolution's definition of a "war of aggression" requires that said war be "initiated by the conscientious objector's nation", meaning that member nations may coerce conscientious objectors to serve in combative military roles to participate in wars of aggression initiated by other nations,

Further noting that Article III, Section 4 is also a major loophole, as there is no protection against member nations setting an unreasonably long, yet still "finite", "pre-determined...period of time prior to reassignment to a non-combative duty" of individuals who develop a conscientious objection while serving in a combative military role,

Believing that, as resolutions cannot be amended, the only way to address these problems is via repeal of the target,

Repeals the "Military Freedom Act".

[Heidgaudr]

Asgeir had several papers spread out before him on his desk. He held two pages side by side to compare them as he squinted his face, confused.

"Perhaps I'm missing something, but... when comparing your 'Saddened' clause with the current draft of your replacement, I can't help but be confused. In this repeal, you say that forcing people to fight in wars of defense is bad but then in your replacement, you write the very same thing. I understand that your replacement is a bit stricter in its requirements for forcing objectors to still fight, but it still seems a little, uh, disingenuous to me."

Further noting that Article III, Section 4 is also a major loophole,

"The wording of this implies that what came before it - the 'Saddened' clause - was also a major loophole. I don't think it is though. It seems to me to be very intentional."

Concerned that the definition of a "combative military duty" is self-contradictory, as it is defined as "any duty wherein a person is required to directly cause injury or death to any person", yet explicitly includes "the equipping of weaponry to machines or vehicles", which would often be a labourous and time-consuming process yet not necessarily one which would involve directly engaging in combat,

"This seems to be a pedantic argument about what exactly 'direct' means. Sure, they aren't the one firing the gun, but to objectors they would still very much be complicit in the crime. I think the intention is very clear, and the inclusion of 3a) ensured that even if a member didn't interpret such an action as being 'direct', that the objectors would still be protected."

[Starman of Stardust]

Asgeir had several papers spread out before him on his desk. He held two pages side by side to compare them as he squinted his face, confused.

"Perhaps I'm missing something, but... when comparing your 'Saddened' clause with the current draft of your replacement, I can't help but be confused. In this repeal, you say that forcing people to fight in wars of defense is bad but then in your replacement, you write the very same thing. I understand that your replacement is a bit stricter in its requirements for forcing objectors to still fight, but it still seems a little, uh, disingenuous to me."

"This is not the criticism. Rather, if Nation A declares a war of aggression on some other nation, Nation B is allowed to send conscientious objectors to back Nation A since it wasn't Nation B which initiated the war. We have amended the clause to make this more explicit."

Further noting that Article III, Section 4 is also a major loophole,

"The wording of this implies that what came before it - the 'Saddened' clause - was also a major loophole. I don't think it is though. It seems to me to be very intentional."

"It would appear not as such; once again, the repeal argument is referencing that member nations may back other nations' wars of aggression with objectors, not that it allows objectors to be conscripted to defend the member nation itself."

Concerned that the definition of a "combative military duty" is self-contradictory, as it is defined as "any duty wherein a person is required to directly cause injury or death to any person", yet explicitly includes "the equipping of weaponry to machines or vehicles", which would often be a labourous and time-consuming process yet not necessarily one which would involve directly engaging in combat,

"This seems to be a pedantic argument about what exactly 'direct' means. Sure, they aren't the one firing the gun, but to objectors they would still very much be complicit in the crime. I think the intention is very clear, and the inclusion of 3a) ensured that even if a member didn't interpret such an action as being 'direct', that the objectors would still be protected."

"Fair enough, we have removed this argument as we find the other arguments to be sufficient to justify repeal and replacement."

[The Ice States]

Bump.

[The Ice States]

Bumping once again.

[Kastonvia]

comments

[Kenmoria]

“On a note of wording, the ‘further noting’ clause argues that article III, section 4 is a loophole. I would say that article III, section 4 rather contains a loophole. The loophole is a result of the clause, not the clause is itself. Beyond that, and my stylistic dislike of the italicisation of the entire final line, I have no objections to this repeal.”

[Starman of Stardust]

“On a note of wording, the ‘further noting’ clause argues that article III, section 4 is a loophole. I would say that article III, section 4 rather contains a loophole. The loophole is a result of the clause, not the clause is itself. Beyond that, and my stylistic dislike of the italicisation of the entire final line, I have no objections to this repeal.”

"We have amended the wording to argue that Section 4 'creates a major loophole'."

[The Ice States]

Submitting this next. Consider this on last call.

[Simone Republic]

To quote Heidgaudr on the other thread:

"I'm still unconvinced we should explicitly permit conscripting objectors in wars of defense. It seems to me a self-correcting behavior where many people who would object to wars of aggression would be willing to defend their nation. And the ones who would still object - well, I'm not sure I'd want to be handing them guns and counting on them to do their duty."

Same question I am asking Tinfect:

What happens if the objector's town has been blown to pieces, all his family members raped, tortured and killed, and the objector's neighbours are fighting invaders with machine guns? Is it acceptable for the objector to sit at home and play Candy Crush Saga?

[Starman of Stardust]

To quote Heidgaudr on the other thread:

"I'm still unconvinced we should explicitly permit conscripting objectors in wars of defense. It seems to me a self-correcting behavior where many people who would object to wars of aggression would be willing to defend their nation. And the ones who would still object - well, I'm not sure I'd want to be handing them guns and counting on them to do their duty."

Same question I am asking Tinfect:

What happens if the objector's town has been blown to pieces, all his family members raped, tortured and killed, and the objector's neighbours are fighting invaders with machine guns? Is it acceptable for the objector to sit at home and play Candy Crush Saga?

While my answer would be "yes", even though I dislike the framing of your question, this isn't really relevant to the repeal, whose arguments are unrelated to the conscription of objectors to self-defense. I have, however, edited the repeal text to make this even more explicit in the first argument.

[The Ice States]

I am rather disappointed in a certain author for thinking it a good idea to quorum raid this proposal. Fortunately, the quorum raid appears to have had minimal actual effect on this proposal, which remains comfortably above quorum.