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Mexico Bans Smoking in Public Places

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

As a result of this reform I am...

more likely to immigrate to Mexico
28
25%
less likely to immigrate to Mexico
11
10%
more likely to emigrate from Mexico
2
2%
less likely to emigrate from Mexico
2
2%
I understand the logic of these poll options, but protest they're absurd anyway
71
62%
 
Total votes : 114

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Forsher
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Mexico Bans Smoking in Public Places

Postby Forsher » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:08 pm

Apparently, Mexico is really ramping up its tobacco control policies.

Mexico has brought into force one of the world's strictest anti-tobacco laws by enacting a total ban on smoking in public places.

The step, which was first approved in 2021, also includes a ban on tobacco advertising.

Several other Latin American countries have also passed legislation to create smoke-free public spaces.

However, Mexico's legislation is considered to be the most robust and wide-ranging in the Americas.

It amounts to one of the most stringent anti-smoking laws in the world. Mexico's existing 2008 law - which created smoke-free spaces in bars, restaurants and workplaces - is now extended to an outright ban in all public spaces. That includes parks, beaches, hotels, offices and restaurants.

There will also be a total ban on the advertising, promotion and sponsorship of tobacco products, meaning that cigarettes cannot even be on show inside shops.


So, 2008 is quite late on to be enacting an indoor workplace ban, and if I'm reading this right, the current legislation is the first ban on advertising. That is very late. I've checked; there were less wide reaching advertising bans at least as early as 2008 (presumably part of the same reform package).

However, as far as I know, no-one's actually banned smoking in public places like parks before. Auckland wanted to do it eleven years ago... which would bring it in line with alcohol bans in most public parks... but did not. NZ recently outlawed selling tobacco to everyone born after 2008 (as in, they will never be old enough to buy it), but this won't be the same as a use ban for, what, another 80 years? Bhutan had a sale and production (but not import) ban, though seems to have got rid of it due to smuggling, while Turkmenistan might have? Wikipedia is not sure. The Pitcairn Islands have also walked back a sale ban. So, despite being relatively slow to get going, Mexico now has some of the toughest anti-smoking policies in the world.

It is heartening to see that there's a healthy scepticism of vaping embedded in this current reform package. It is totally crazy to me how wholeheartedly some countries have embraced vaping without first establishing whether it's safe. Have we not learnt from, for example, smoking?

Now, there are some practical concerns with this kind of control. If you see someone smoking in a public place, what do you do? Nevertheless, its heart is in the right place.

So, what's the counter-argument to banning smoking outright? The ethical case is, obviously, predicated on the ability of an individual's smoking being unable to influence or affect other individuals. Since we know this is a set of false premises, the arguments against smoking regulation have tended to be entirely practical. As the Bhutan example demonstrates, it can be the case that anti-smoking policies fail because of bad actors being too numerous. On the other hand, there is a wealth of evidence that most regulations actually succeed.

Now, I should point out that there is maybe some point to distinguishing between "grow your own" tobacco consumption and the tobacco industry. It quite simply should not be legal to sell products that kill your customers even if the customers use your product correctly (e.g. driving a car off a cliff is an improper use, buying a gun and shooting yourself with it is an improper use). However, cultivating your own tobacco plant and smoking it or whatever is different on a fundamental level. Yes, there's still concerns about other people, but if you lived by yourself on a 100 hectares, then that's evidently different to smoking in a public place.

Anyway, what say ye, NSG? Is it racist to suggest that Mexico's police forces are too corrupt to enforce this new legislation?

Others have raised questions about the practicalities of enforcing the law.

With police corruption so rampant in Mexico, many fear that rather than issuing real fines or punishments for smoking in public, some officers will use it as a pretext for taking bribes.


Or is there no real difference between getting caught smoking and the cop pocketing the fine, and getting caught smoking and the cop sending the fine to the taxman? I guess they could take the bribe and continue to let you smoke...
Last edited by Forsher on Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Castille de Italia
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Postby Castille de Italia » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:11 pm

I hate smoking, and I love Mexico, so this is pretty cool.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:13 pm

Does that apply to the parts of the country under de factor drug cartel control?
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Regnum Alea Spaceflee
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Postby Regnum Alea Spaceflee » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:14 pm

I am not going to immagrate to mexico but damn good on them for helping people.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:15 pm

Rusozak wrote:Does that apply to the parts of the country under de factor drug cartel control?


Why would drug cartels be against legislation aimed at their competitors?
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Mlastrosi
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Postby Mlastrosi » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:20 pm

Good smoking is disgusting, I wish we had something like this in the U.S. so I didn't have to constantly smell tobacco when I go out

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Charode
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Postby Charode » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:22 pm

based mexico
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Regnum Alea Spaceflee
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Postby Regnum Alea Spaceflee » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:22 pm

Mlastrosi wrote:Good smoking is disgusting, I wish we had something like this in the U.S. so I didn't have to constantly smell tobacco when I go out

got to remember that America is much larger and In 2020, an estimated 12.5% (30.8 million) of U.S. adults currently smoked cigarettes.
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Mlastrosi
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Postby Mlastrosi » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:29 pm

Regnum Alea Spaceflee wrote:
Mlastrosi wrote:Good smoking is disgusting, I wish we had something like this in the U.S. so I didn't have to constantly smell tobacco when I go out

got to remember that America is much larger and In 2020, an estimated 12.5% (30.8 million) of U.S. adults currently smoked cigarettes.

Yea the size difference would probably make it harder to enforce, I don't see how the amount of people who smoke matter it's not a ban on smoking just a law saying they can't do it in public

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:30 pm

>be AMLO
>promise to demilitarize AND reduce crime
>do the opposite and pretend you fixed it
>approval ratings sink 28%
>“smoking is pretty bad, amirite?”

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Zerotaxia
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Postby Zerotaxia » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:36 pm

I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

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Vikanias
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Postby Vikanias » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:41 pm

Mexico being based per usual
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Mlastrosi
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Postby Mlastrosi » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:45 pm

Zerotaxia wrote:I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

When someone's doing it in public it's very likely affecting other people so it's no longer just their body that's being affected
Last edited by Mlastrosi on Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zerotaxia
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Postby Zerotaxia » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:47 pm

Mlastrosi wrote:
Zerotaxia wrote:I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

When you're doing it in public it's very likely affecting other people so it's no longer just your body that's being affected

That's the price of freedom. The state shouldn't regulate anything.

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Vikanias
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Postby Vikanias » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:48 pm

Mlastrosi wrote:
Zerotaxia wrote:I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

When you're doing it in public it's very likely affecting other people so it's no longer just your body that's being affected


For example, people with a respiratory illness, or any way that people can get sick or seriously sick through inhalation of that type of stuff.
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Mlastrosi
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Postby Mlastrosi » Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:52 pm

Zerotaxia wrote:
Mlastrosi wrote:When you're doing it in public it's very likely affecting other people so it's no longer just your body that's being affected

That's the price of freedom. The state shouldn't regulate anything.

If freedom means me having to deal with the consequences of other people's actions, and getting something from secondhand smoke then I don't want it

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 pm

I'm guessing that Mexico doesn't have much BFN? I mean if you're gonna smoke alone in the middle of BFN, who is it hurting?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:52 pm

Zerotaxia wrote:I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

real

Banning someone smoking in a public place away from anyone is just absurd. Honestly, this is going to be used as a new way to line the pockets of on-the-beat police officers by way of bribes. Also, what a gargantuan waste of policing resources. As an outsider it seems like Mexico's police force have a lot bigger fish to fry than random people having a smoke.
Last edited by Drongonia on Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:09 am

Forsher wrote:However, as far as I know, no-one's actually banned smoking in public places like parks before.

Eh?
In Milan smoking is forbidden in city parks at kids' playgrounds and on streets within 10 m of tram or bus stops, and also in metro stations even at surface platforms. And we aren't even the strictest city in Europe. Not to mention Singapore.
.

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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:26 am

Risottia wrote:
Forsher wrote:However, as far as I know, no-one's actually banned smoking in public places like parks before.

Eh?
In Milan smoking is forbidden in city parks at kids' playgrounds and on streets within 10 m of tram or bus stops, and also in metro stations even at surface platforms. And we aren't even the strictest city in Europe. Not to mention Singapore.


Europe has, as a whole, very lax smoking regulations; this is very surprising news.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

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Archinstinct
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Postby Archinstinct » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:30 am

Zerotaxia wrote:
Mlastrosi wrote:When you're doing it in public it's very likely affecting other people so it's no longer just your body that's being affected

That's the price of freedom. The state shouldn't regulate anything.


You're Right.

I should regulate everything instead!

Surrender your autonomy to me, mortals!
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Durius
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Postby Durius » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:26 am

Zerotaxia wrote:I am not a smoker but fuck this nanny state bullshit. The government should have zero regulatory involvement in our individual lives or the free market. Abolish controlled substance laws. My body my choice.

You can do it at home. The point of banning it in public places is because you are not only destroying your body, but also the ones around you.

Of course a better alternative could be found: you are allowed to smoke near other people, but are criminally charged for damaging public health.
Last edited by Durius on Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Durius
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Postby Durius » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:28 am

Forsher wrote:Europe has, as a whole, very lax smoking regulations; this is very surprising news.

That claim is what is surprising to me. Smoking in public closed spaces is the rule in Portugal and talk about banning it in open spaces is not that uncommon.

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:32 am

Archinstinct wrote:
Zerotaxia wrote:That's the price of freedom. The state shouldn't regulate anything.


You're Right.

I should regulate everything instead!

Surrender your autonomy to me, mortals!

According to lolbertarians, that’s technically freedom until you write “gubbermint” on your name tag.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:33 am

Good.
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