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Israel’s Enabling Act: Palestine Chaos

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Will Netanyahu’s judiciary plan prevail?

Yes
9
47%
No
10
53%
 
Total votes : 19

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El Lazaro
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Israel’s Enabling Act: Palestine Chaos

Postby El Lazaro » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:07 am

Netanyahu’s coalition, which includes extreme fundamentalist and anti-Arab political parties, has been pushing for a series of radical changes which would effectively end the Supreme Court’s ability to uphold constitutional law and protect the justice system from attacks by the legislature. While the main motivation seems to be protecting corrupt right-wing politicians from being convicted, the overhaul agenda has increasingly become about suppressing Israeli Arabs while escalating with Palestinian communities, as well as preventing the political participation of Netanyahu’s enemies—which would expand his power while appeasing his far-right political allies.

Currently, few factors are at play:
1. The legal system’s response - they have some legal basis to slow the takeover, but firm intervention will further anger the pro-Netanyahu camp. As well, Israel’s fragile and haphazard constitutional framework gives the Supreme Court few options to protect itself.
2. The coalition - shielding partners (and himself) from prior legal issues may be tricky, and ultranationalist hawks have made tall demands which are practically and/or legally difficult to fulfill. Any one of four allied parties could bring Netanyahu, but disputes have not come to that point yet.
3. International community - Arab nations that are friendlier with Israel have been uneasy with the new coalition, and Israel’s biggest allies are staunchly against the judicial changes. International relations taking a turn for the worse is bad for Israel’s economy and national security, whereas increasing aggression against Palestine may have a destabilizing effect when there is already internal turmoil.

Now that he’s prioritizing controversial and unpopular changes rather than addressing relevant concerns, Netanyahu will have to keep things together (without calling daunting elections, preferably) until April for fear of corruption proceedings putting him away before he gets another chance to shoot them down. With all of these issues considered, a self-coup and far-right dictatorship may be within the realm of possibility. So, until this is resolved, a lot of things are up in the air. Who will succeed? What is the end goal of the judicial overhaul? Will Israel change for the better or worse (if either) in the upcoming months?

For the time being, this thread is also going to include Palestinian happenings relating to the new government to avoid opening a similar thread which may not diverge into a distinctly different topic. As such, here’s the breakdown: the Israeli government has been pushing for an escalation against Palestine and expansion of settler areas, and (after the killing of Palestinian civilians in the Jenin raid) violence is escalating in the West Bank and Gaza, and there have even been attacks against Israeli civilians in Jerusalem. While Fatah, Hamas, and the growing Palestinian Islamic Jihad have all harshly criticized Israel, Netanyahu has chosen to double down and pursue stronger anti-Arab security policies.

Full old OP:
In the last few weeks and months, far-right extremism has been on the rise in both Israel and Palestine as Israel carries out frequent and aggressive attacks on Palestine and groups such as Hamas have allegedly lost funding from Iran, undermining confidence in their ability to secure territory. At the same time, Netanyahu negotiated with the most racist and authoritarian parties in the Knesset, including a deal to place Itamar Ben-Gvir - a criminal with multiple convictions for supporting an ultranationalist theocratic terrorist group and upfront pogrom incitement - in charge of national security and administrating occupied Palestinian areas.

Now, with the anti-Arab and ultra-Orthodox coalition achieved, the government has taken the agenda a step further with a move for the de facto abolition of Israel’s constitution. Here’s how it works in the proposal: the ruling coalition gets to pick the majority of the Supreme Court appointment committee members, and if even one SC justice doesn’t decide a law is unconstitutional, the ruling is null. Once it is implanted, it will almost certainly be used to “self-pardon” Bibi’s acts of corruption and permit the killing and expulsion of many more Palestinians than before. Beyond that, however, they may have more ambitious plans: getting one yes-man on the court would mean the Likud/Far-Right coalition would be able to tear down democracy with impunity. Perhaps the worst case scenario is a Machtergreifung, where the far-right is able to wrest power from Likud and rule without constitutional restraints.

It goes without saying that this new government is an abomination, not to mention a problem for the allies and enemies of Israel alike. The US State Department has condemned the far-right’s attempts to provoke ethnic violence and make power grabs, Ukraine has expressed distaste for the administration, and the IDF’s top brass has denounced some of the coalition’s foreign and security policy initiatives as dangerous and unconstitutional ploys. With Iran and Russia struggling to project influence into the Levant as of late, however, historic and drastic measures may be the only way to pressure Israel out of it, if there is one.

I know many of us favor one side over the other in the Israel-Palestine conflict, but if anyone is willing to support a severe and destabilizing escalation undertaken by a government more radical than that of Palestine, why? And, on the other side, if you’re going to say Israel is already the root of all evil and it couldn’t get any worse, etc. etc., please find something more intelligent to say. Finally, how severe is the issue? Is this the dawn of fascism in a nuclear armed regional power or just Bibi being a crook?

Links:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-726637
https://www.voanews.com/a/6851259.html
Last edited by El Lazaro on Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:17 am, edited 25 times in total.

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Mountains and Volcanoes
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Israel: The Rise / Resurgence Of Terror (To Spite Democracy)

Postby Mountains and Volcanoes » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:20 am

El Lazaro wrote:
In the last few weeks and months, far-right extremism has been on the rise in both Israel and Palestine as Israel carries out frequent and aggressive attacks on Palestine and groups such as Hamas have allegedly lost funding from Iran, undermining confidence in their ability to secure territory. At the same time, Netanyahu negotiated with the most racist and authoritarian parties in the Knesset, including a deal to place Itamar Ben-Gvir - a criminal with multiple convictions for supporting an ultranationalist theocratic terrorist group and upfront pogrom incitement - in charge of national security and administrating occupied Palestinian areas.

Now, with the anti-Arab and ultra-Orthodox coalition achieved, the government has taken the agenda a step further with a move for the de facto abolition of Israel’s constitution. Here’s how it works in the proposal: the ruling coalition gets to pick the majority of the Supreme Court appointment committee members, and if even one SC justice doesn’t decide a law is unconstitutional, the ruling is null. Once it is implanted, it will almost certainly be used to “self-pardon” Bibi’s acts of corruption and permit the killing and expulsion of many more Palestinians than before. Beyond that, however, they may have more ambitious plans: getting one yes-man on the court would mean the Likud/Far-Right coalition would be able to tear down democracy with impunity. Perhaps the worst case scenario is a Machtergreifung, where the far-right is able to wrest power from Likud and rule without constitutional restraints.

It goes without saying that this new government is an abomination, not to mention a problem for the allies and enemies of Israel alike. The US State Department has condemned the far-right’s attempts to provoke ethnic violence and make power grabs, Ukraine has expressed distaste for the administration, and the IDF’s top brass has denounced some of the coalition’s foreign and security policy initiatives as dangerous and unconstitutional ploys. With Iran and Russia struggling to project influence into the Levant as of late, however, historic and drastic measures may be the only way to pressure Israel out of it, if there is one.
Links:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-726637
https://www.voanews.com/a/6851259.html
I know many of us favor one side over the other in the Israel-Palestine conflict, but if anyone is willing to support a severe and destabilizing escalation undertaken by a government more radical than that of Palestine, why?
Idk, Something along the lines of “terrorism” or “hate crimes”...
Finally, how severe is the issue?
Pretty bad, worst part is that Knesset has legitimized this, not like back home (a la Trumpism but Israel Version: Round 2)
Is this the dawn of fascism in a nuclear armed regional power or just Bibi being a crook?
Yes.
Last edited by Mountains and Volcanoes on Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:24 am

US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wayneactia » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:26 am

Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

Seems ironic that Israel is bringing ultranationalism to their country….
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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:34 am

The US almost had trump, so it's appears more like a trend these days of authoritarians wanting to turn democracies into dictatorships.

Wayneactia wrote:Seems ironic that Israel is bringing ultranationalism to their country….


I'm honestly surprised you're bothering to respond to my forum post at all. Don't you dislike me or something on the whims of your pacifican friends?
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:43 am

Disgusting beyond words, but not shocking. By enabling an ethnostate, they will take their genocide as far as they can until stopped. Someday the Palestinian people will be free, but for now we can only hope they stay as safe as they can.
Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

Let's not have Israel at all. There should be no apartheid whatsoever, liberal or not.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:46 am

US warns Israel against "unacceptable" moves after new far-right cabinet member Itamar Ben-Gvir visits holy site

Seems like the US gov. doesn't like the way Israel is devolving either. Good. Maybe we should withdraw some of our aid packages and diplomatic recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital if the country turns into a dictatorship.

EDIT: And here comes the thinly-veiled antisemitic posters calling for the abolition of Israel entirely to allow jihadists to kill all the Jewish people there.

You can hate a government and it's military without wishing ill on it's people. Just say you want the government overthrown, it's not that fucking hard.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vikanias » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:46 am

Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.


*over there starts playing in the distance*
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:03 am

Your friendly reminder that as far as the Israeli right-wing is concerned, the only thing the Nazis actually got wrong was which was the master race with the divine right to blood and soil, and which was the untermensch that needed to be purged for the purity and glory of the fatherland.

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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:11 am

Archinstinct wrote:EDIT: And here comes the thinly-veiled antisemitic posters calling for the abolition of Israel entirely to allow jihadists to kill all the Jewish people there.

It's not antisemitic to believe no race deserves an ethnostate. I oppose Israel because I'm against genocide, not because I believe it should be directed against someone else.

You can hate a government and it's military without wishing ill on it's people. Just say you want the government overthrown, it's not that fucking hard.

Am I allowed to say that here?
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:24 am

Alcala-Cordel wrote:It's not antisemitic to believe no race deserves an ethnostate. I oppose Israel because I'm against genocide, not because I believe it should be directed against someone else.


If true, then I'm not talking about you.

Am I allowed to say that here?


Yes.
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Stand with Ukraine. If you see Russian Propaganda on social media, report it. Donate if you can to help Ukraine's refugees and it's defense. Lobby your government to send Ukraine weapons.
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:35 am

Archinstinct wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:It's not antisemitic to believe no race deserves an ethnostate. I oppose Israel because I'm against genocide, not because I believe it should be directed against someone else.


If true, then I'm not talking about you.

Who are you talking about then, and what antisemitic things have been said? I don't see anyone else advocating for genocide either, just for the current genocide, colonization, and apartheid to be stopped.
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:43 am

Well, it seems someone in the poll is happy about the situation.

Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

The only way to do this without risking the threat of nukes against a third party being used as collateral would be a military coup, which has been formally ruled out of the question by the military—although ranking officers have an antagonistic relationship with the far-right, and Netanyahu’s government is trying to purge moderates in the IDF’s chain of command while stripping military power and influence. Which is to say, if there ever was a time when plotting a military coup wasn’t out of the question, it’s now.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Philjia » Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:01 am

The Israeli far right have looked at Jewish history, which is pretty much wall to wall systemic oppression and violent persecution dating back to ancient times, and have concluded that the real problem is that the Jews didn't get to be the oppressors.
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Postby Punished UMN » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:27 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

Seems ironic that Israel is bringing ultranationalism to their country….

The entire state of Israel is an ultranationalist project lol
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Postby -Astoria- » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:34 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Seems ironic that Israel is bringing ultranationalism to their country….

The entire state of Israel is an ultranationalist project lol

And an exercise in settler colonialism to boot, from what I've heard.
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Postby Galactic Powers » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 am

Alcala-Cordel wrote:Disgusting beyond words, but not shocking. By enabling an ethnostate, they will take their genocide as far as they can until stopped. Someday the Palestinian people will be free, but for now we can only hope they stay as safe as they can.
Archinstinct wrote:US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

Let's not have Israel at all. There should be no apartheid whatsoever, liberal or not.

So then where do the 9 million Israelis go? They live there now, and like it or not, they don’t deserve to be kicked out of their homes either. What’s the solution to the crisis?
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Postby Dalavi » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:53 am

Galactic Powers wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Disgusting beyond words, but not shocking. By enabling an ethnostate, they will take their genocide as far as they can until stopped. Someday the Palestinian people will be free, but for now we can only hope they stay as safe as they can.

Let's not have Israel at all. There should be no apartheid whatsoever, liberal or not.

So then where do the 9 million Israelis go? They live there now, and like it or not, they don’t deserve to be kicked out of their homes either. What’s the solution to the crisis?

preferably somewhere without arabs

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Postby Free Algerstonia » Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 am

i am declaring my support for netanyahu for reasons i will not elaborate on because i am a nice person and don't want to offend anybody
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:06 pm

Galactic Powers wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Disgusting beyond words, but not shocking. By enabling an ethnostate, they will take their genocide as far as they can until stopped. Someday the Palestinian people will be free, but for now we can only hope they stay as safe as they can.

Let's not have Israel at all. There should be no apartheid whatsoever, liberal or not.

So then where do the 9 million Israelis go? They live there now, and like it or not, they don’t deserve to be kicked out of their homes either. What’s the solution to the crisis?

It's a slow process, but the priority should be moving Palestinian families back to their own homes.
If a lack of homes is an issue, they could build more or something. A good portion of Israelis will probably leave because they don't want to live around Palestinians.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:09 pm

You mean an ethnostate that puts a singular ethnic group above all others is a breeding ground for the far right? I am shocked I tell you.
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Postby Dowaesk » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:10 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:i am declaring my support for netanyahu for reasons i will not elaborate on because i am a nice person and don't want to offend anybody

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:25 pm

Dowaesk wrote:
Free Algerstonia wrote:i am declaring my support for netanyahu for reasons i will not elaborate on because i am a nice person and don't want to offend anybody

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not

It's Alger.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Galactic Powers » Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:34 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Galactic Powers wrote:So then where do the 9 million Israelis go? They live there now, and like it or not, they don’t deserve to be kicked out of their homes either. What’s the solution to the crisis?

It's a slow process, but the priority should be moving Palestinian families back to their own homes.
If a lack of homes is an issue, they could build more or something. A good portion of Israelis will probably leave because they don't want to live around Palestinians.

And those who stay because they believe this to be their ancestral homeland, which I think will be the majority contrary to your belief, what happens then? Is there a formation of some new state, does Palestine take over, or do the two countries unite? You basically just create the most racially tense country in the world, I don't think that would help stability at all.
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