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by Grea Kriopia » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:19 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:1. ”Addiction” for the purposes of this resolution shall be defined as the persistent usage of a substance or repetition of behaviors by an individual, for which the rewarding effects provide a compelling incentive to repeat the activity despite such activities leading to severely detrimental impacts on their day-to-day functioning, relationships, and routines, as assessed by a relevant professional.
by Kenmoria » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:40 pm
Grea Kriopia wrote:OOC
by Net Cas » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:55 pm
by Grea Kriopia » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:35 pm
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: That’s a very good point. However, I’m wondering whether it would have much practical impact. The clauses don’t consider OCD or similar disorders at all, so a lot don’t work from a logical standpoint. However, there’s nothing that seems immediately unsuitable to me. Education is good, along with treatment, and access to medical facilities free of charge.)
by Republic of Mesque » Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:40 pm
Grea Kriopia wrote:I have to chew on this definition a bit and question whether its definition is as well-developed as it could be when wading into psychological terminology.
by Kenmoria » Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:06 pm
Grea Kriopia wrote:Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: That’s a very good point. However, I’m wondering whether it would have much practical impact. The clauses don’t consider OCD or similar disorders at all, so a lot don’t work from a logical standpoint. However, there’s nothing that seems immediately unsuitable to me. Education is good, along with treatment, and access to medical facilities free of charge.)
I would politely disagree that this is not impactful. These distinctions exist for a reason because they have implications for how a person is treated for a disorder and could impact the degree of success in their treatment.
The clauses in this proposal are contingent on a definition that lumps addiction and OCD/other compulsion-related disorders under the same umbrella. Are we intending to educate others then that addiction and OCD/compulsion-based disorders are the same or that their treatments and rehabilitation are the same when we know this is not the case? How do we offer the "accurate" treatment if entirely different disorders are classed as the same thing?
Disorders are not so shallow that we can say "Okay, any treatment = better than nothing". They have diagnostic criteria and scientific understanding that form their treatments in the same way you don't treat a burn the same way as you treat a broken bone. A medication that works for one disorder could do nothing or prove worse for another disorder, certain forms of therapy could be ineffective for one yet prove vital for another.
The aims of this proposal are, as you said, good. It simply needs more refinement to reflect an accurate understanding of the topic.
Republic of Mesque wrote:Grea Kriopia wrote:I have to chew on this definition a bit and question whether its definition is as well-developed as it could be when wading into psychological terminology.
We believe your concerns are legitimate and concur with various points, notably the mention of OCD, to which We would also like to add ASD.
However, We further believe that the legislation is not compromised, nor does it lack research, at all. Indeed, even if the definition might be too broad for scientific taste, the saving grace lies at its end - "as assessed by a relevant professional".
This excerpt is a nod to any worried scientific communities, that the legislators are not aiming to be strict, or overwhelmingly technical, in its definition or terminology - it rightfully gives and respects the autonomy of medical and other health professionals to differential diagnosis and psychiatric/psychological assessments that may or may not classify, for each specific patient, an addiction.
by American Rockies » Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:26 pm
by Kenmoria » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:03 pm
American Rockies wrote:I’d be so happy to favor this on a national level, but international governments should not have the right to intervene with duely-elected governments
by Republic of Mesque » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:11 pm
Kenmoria wrote:That’s a clever argument, but I don’t think that it applies here. The definition is written such that its criteria are to be assessed according to the judgement of a relevant professional, rather than the relevant professional having a discretionary power of inclusion or exclusion.)
by Istaska » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:16 pm
by ObrimenjasWardenState » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm
by Ordenstaat Indus » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:16 pm
by New Falkarth » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:45 am
by Kenmoria » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:26 am
ObrimenjasWardenState wrote:While I could be misinterpreting this, there seems to be potential for a loophole that has me worried. The broad definition of addiction is beneficial to encompass more than drugs, but its wide definition would also encompass certain homicidal sociopathic conditions, along with more mild ones like kleptomania. Under section II.C, these people could potentially be immune to certain prosecution. If I’m a murderous sociopath who can’t help but murder people for my own enjoyment, I am by this definition addicted. I cannot be jailed for said addiction, so why am free to only go to rehab, which would be difficult since rehab centers are meant for drug users, not murderous maniacs. I hope I explained this well.
Other than this issue, this proposal is very well written, but I can vote for it in this state.
by Pangurstan » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:26 pm
Kenmoria wrote:ObrimenjasWardenState wrote:While I could be misinterpreting this, there seems to be potential for a loophole that has me worried. The broad definition of addiction is beneficial to encompass more than drugs, but its wide definition would also encompass certain homicidal sociopathic conditions, along with more mild ones like kleptomania. Under section II.C, these people could potentially be immune to certain prosecution. If I’m a murderous sociopath who can’t help but murder people for my own enjoyment, I am by this definition addicted. I cannot be jailed for said addiction, so why am free to only go to rehab, which would be difficult since rehab centers are meant for drug users, not murderous maniacs. I hope I explained this well.
Other than this issue, this proposal is very well written, but I can vote for it in this state.
(OOC: I would argue that, for example, a kleptomaniac who is imprisoned for stealing, is not being punished for his addiction. Member-nations are forbidden from imprisoning someone solely for having the compulsion to steal, so they cannot imprison the kleptomaniac for his kleptomania. However, they can imprison a kleptomaniac for actions taken pursuant to his kleptomania, such as the stealing.)
by Kenmoria » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:57 am
Pangurstan wrote:Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: I would argue that, for example, a kleptomaniac who is imprisoned for stealing, is not being punished for his addiction. Member-nations are forbidden from imprisoning someone solely for having the compulsion to steal, so they cannot imprison the kleptomaniac for his kleptomania. However, they can imprison a kleptomaniac for actions taken pursuant to his kleptomania, such as the stealing.)
So member states can still imprison people addicted to drugs for using them as long as they don't criminalize the actual state of addiction?
by Ultrackia » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:30 am
by Tinhampton » Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:01 am
by Contrarian Extraordinaire » Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:49 pm
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