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Slavery Thread

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60022
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Slavery Thread

Postby Luminesa » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:05 pm

Pretty sure slavery threads are not allowed:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=527256
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
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The free city of Kravolec
Envoy
 
Posts: 289
Founded: Dec 02, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The free city of Kravolec » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:08 pm

idk but it became fun quick

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The Jet Black Aerospace Division
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 30, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Jet Black Aerospace Division » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:13 pm

It probably doesn't matter that it's slavery, just that this Warriorium's doing it for kicks - that is apparent from the lack context and abrasive tone.

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Chingis
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 367
Founded: Apr 04, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chingis » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:24 pm

The free city of Kravolec wrote:idk but it became fun quick


Don't reply in a moderation thread unless you are a mod, the person making the report or bringing useful and relevant evidence to the table.


The thread topic is legal - we have allowed slave threads before.
[violet] wrote:lol
My TGs are not for Mod business

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60022
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:45 pm

Second opinion requested. A long time ago I sent-up an RP thread for having slaves and one of the older mods said it was not allowed. I would dig it up but there is precedent against it.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
United Calanworie
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 959
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:48 pm

Upon consulting the Deep Archives of Moderation™, I have found multiple instances of precedent ruling them legal as long as they manage to not violate *other* rules in the process. That's the key bit there. *Other* rules.
Last edited by United Calanworie on Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo >_>
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Hahoalki
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Jul 30, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hahoalki » Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:15 pm

United Calanworie wrote:Upon consulting the Deep Archives of Moderation™, I have found multiple instances of precedent ruling them legal as long as they manage to not violate *other* rules in the process. That's the key bit there. *Other* rules.


Could these "other rules" be made explicit so that we, as players, don't have to worry about stepping over boundaries by accident?

This is a problem I have with moderation on this site. It seems like an insular club, ruled by an idiosyncratic groupthink, whose rules are consistently either unclear or unjust.
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

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United Calanworie
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 959
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:16 pm

Hahoalki wrote:
United Calanworie wrote:Upon consulting the Deep Archives of Moderation™, I have found multiple instances of precedent ruling them legal as long as they manage to not violate *other* rules in the process. That's the key bit there. *Other* rules.


Could these "other rules" be made explicit so that we, as players, don't have to worry about stepping over boundaries by accident?

This is a problem I have with moderation on this site. It seems like an insular club, ruled by an idiosyncratic groupthink, whose rules are consistently either unclear or unjust.

Yeah, they're right here.
Discord: Aav#7546
She/Her/Hers
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HYPR: TG API software (GitHub) | Spyglass (forum) (GitHub) (Latest Release)
No software/scripts contained within my GitHub, or GitHubs that I have contributed to is guaranteed by Moderation/Administration to be rules compliant. As always, use scripts/API tools at YOUR OWN RISK.
Posts made speaking as a staff member will either say so, or include Ominous Redtext™

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Hahoalki
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Jul 30, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hahoalki » Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:32 pm

United Calanworie wrote:
Hahoalki wrote:
Could these "other rules" be made explicit so that we, as players, don't have to worry about stepping over boundaries by accident?

This is a problem I have with moderation on this site. It seems like an insular club, ruled by an idiosyncratic groupthink, whose rules are consistently either unclear or unjust.

Yeah, they're right here.


Again, I'm unclear on how these rules could be applied objectively in any specific case. For example, there are rules against gloating that include "gloating over election results" as a punishable offense.

But the title of the American Politics thread was, for a considerable period of time after the American midterms, "Red Wave meet Blue Wall" - which seems to me to be obvious gloating. So, clearly, the mods have extensive discretionary powers regarding what offenses they will actually prosecute. And just like you can't be sure if a prima facie rulebreaking post will draw the wrath of Moderation, you also can't be sure if a prima facie law-abiding post will avoid it.

So, I'm not asking for a link to existing resources. I am asking you to make the rules, as they apply to this specific situation, explicit and transparent. I want to know where exactly the line between acceptable roleplay and unacceptable roleplay lies. Not a link to the vague principles the mods can use to justify taking action if they feel like it that day.
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

User avatar
United Calanworie
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 959
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:35 pm

Hahoalki wrote:
United Calanworie wrote:Yeah, they're right here.


Again, I'm unclear on how these rules could be applied objectively in any specific case. For example, there are rules against gloating that include "gloating over election results" as a punishable offense.

But the title of the American Politics thread was, for a considerable period of time after the American midterms, "Red Wave meet Blue Wall" - which seems to me to be obvious gloating. So, clearly, the mods have extensive discretionary powers regarding what offenses they will actually prosecute. And just like you can't be sure if a prima facie rulebreaking post will draw the wrath of Moderation, you also can't be sure if a prima facie law-abiding post will avoid it.

So, I'm not asking for a link to existing resources. I am asking you to make the rules, as they apply to this specific situation, explicit and transparent. I want to know where exactly the line between acceptable roleplay and unacceptable roleplay lies. Not a link to the vague principles the mods can use to justify taking action if they feel like it that day.

There is no exact, precise line. The rules are the rules, and they are subject to interpretation to cover whatever situation we find ourselves in. I would suggest that instead of trying to rules lawyer an explicit "I can do X but not Y" you instead not engage in conduct that you likely think would violate the rather clearly phrased rules in the OSRS.

E: You could also probably do with a reminder that the phrase "If you have to ask..." always is a good rule of thumb.
Last edited by United Calanworie on Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Discord: Aav#7546
She/Her/Hers
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HYPR: TG API software (GitHub) | Spyglass (forum) (GitHub) (Latest Release)
No software/scripts contained within my GitHub, or GitHubs that I have contributed to is guaranteed by Moderation/Administration to be rules compliant. As always, use scripts/API tools at YOUR OWN RISK.
Posts made speaking as a staff member will either say so, or include Ominous Redtext™

User avatar
Hahoalki
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Jul 30, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hahoalki » Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:37 pm

United Calanworie wrote:
Hahoalki wrote:
Again, I'm unclear on how these rules could be applied objectively in any specific case. For example, there are rules against gloating that include "gloating over election results" as a punishable offense.

But the title of the American Politics thread was, for a considerable period of time after the American midterms, "Red Wave meet Blue Wall" - which seems to me to be obvious gloating. So, clearly, the mods have extensive discretionary powers regarding what offenses they will actually prosecute. And just like you can't be sure if a prima facie rulebreaking post will draw the wrath of Moderation, you also can't be sure if a prima facie law-abiding post will avoid it.

So, I'm not asking for a link to existing resources. I am asking you to make the rules, as they apply to this specific situation, explicit and transparent. I want to know where exactly the line between acceptable roleplay and unacceptable roleplay lies. Not a link to the vague principles the mods can use to justify taking action if they feel like it that day.

There is no exact, precise line. The rules are the rules, and they are subject to interpretation to cover whatever situation we find ourselves in. I would suggest that instead of trying to rules lawyer an explicit "I can do X but not Y" you instead not engage in conduct that you likely think would violate the rather clearly phrased rules in the OSRS.


That sounds suspiciously like "the rules mean what we say they mean, so stay the fuck in line, peasant."

The purpose of a rule is to demarcated between acceptable and unacceptable behavior in a manner that isn't dependent on the judgement of any individual.
Last edited by Hahoalki on Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60022
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:07 am

Hahoalki wrote:
United Calanworie wrote:There is no exact, precise line. The rules are the rules, and they are subject to interpretation to cover whatever situation we find ourselves in. I would suggest that instead of trying to rules lawyer an explicit "I can do X but not Y" you instead not engage in conduct that you likely think would violate the rather clearly phrased rules in the OSRS.


That sounds suspiciously like "the rules mean what we say they mean, so stay the fuck in line, peasant."

The purpose of a rule is to demarcated between acceptable and unacceptable behavior in a manner that isn't dependent on the judgement of any individual.

That's pretty much what it is.

A more specific answer would involve looking back into previous history regarding slavery threads. Some have been taken down, some have not. A ruling from 2015 says that NS mods tend to deal with it on a case-by-case manner. So once again, this is nothing new, but it also means that mods don't really have a hard rule on it. Which the new mod from 2018 I suppose figured could just be solved by reading the rulebook that older posters like myself have read at least a dozen times, and has nothing about slavery in RPs. It's one of those things that, eh, the mods never wrote into the rulebook because that's for general gameplay, not RP gameplay.
Last edited by Luminesa on Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair


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