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What qualifies as "left wing"?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which of these ideologies do you consider to be on the left?

Liberalism
62
7%
Social Democracy
141
15%
Market Socialism / other non-"full communist" socialism
177
19%
Anarchism
122
13%
Full Communism / Marxism
186
20%
Stalinism
141
15%
Fascism
53
6%
Libertarianism
19
2%
None of these but leftism is a thing
4
0%
None of these because the left/right dichotomy is an illusion
33
4%
 
Total votes : 938

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Umeria
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Left-wing Utopia

What qualifies as "left wing"?

Postby Umeria » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:59 pm

I've noticed that this is somewhat of an ongoing conversation here, so I thought I'd try to settle this once and for all. When you think of the "left" as a concept, what comes to mind? Is there a formal definition that we should adhere to? How much should the classification of people or policies as left wing influence our analysis of those things?

Personally, I'd consider social democracy and anything left of that to be on the left, but more in terms of what "camp" people fall into when it comes to elections/organizing/etc. than any strict classification. I'm curious what everyone else thinks.
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Vistulange
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Founded: May 13, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:01 pm

Sorry, how is this substantially going to be different from the left-wing discussion thread or the "left-wing extremism" thread?

The radicals are going to come in and say that their brand of the ideology is the one true way and that everybody else is an undesirable, the moderates will stay silent, there'll be some flaming, and then moderation is going to lock the thread for being a reiteration of one of those two threads, or both.
Last edited by Vistulange on Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Umeria
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:03 pm

Vistulange wrote:Sorry, how is this substantially going to be different from the left-wing discussion thread or the "left-wing extremism" thread?

It's more specific?
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Sweden 2022 RP
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sweden 2022 RP » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:04 pm

Vistulange wrote:Sorry, how is this substantially going to be different from the left-wing discussion thread or the "left-wing extremism" thread?

The radicals are going to come in and say that their brand of the ideology is the one true way and that everybody else is an undesirable, the moderates will stay silent, there'll be some flaming, and then moderation is going to lock the thread for being a reiteration of one of those two threads, or both.
Yes, the mods should and probably will lock it.

On topic, left wing is anything left on the political spectrum. Sure, the first thing I think is Communism, but it's just left wing ideologies in general.
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Vistulange
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:05 pm

Umeria wrote:
Vistulange wrote:Sorry, how is this substantially going to be different from the left-wing discussion thread or the "left-wing extremism" thread?

It's more specific?

It really isn't, though. It's basically, "are these [in the poll] left-wing or not? Discuss!" which...is practically a LWDT.
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Port Caverton
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Port Caverton » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:07 pm

Any socialist ideology, regardless on whenever they're DemSocs, Marxist-Leninists or AnComs.
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Umeria
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:08 pm

Vistulange wrote:
Umeria wrote:It's more specific?

It really isn't, though. It's basically, "are these [in the poll] left-wing or not? Discuss!" which...is practically a LWDT.

To be honest I wasn't around when the LWDT existed, so I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to avoid. This seemed like it complied with the rules.
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Risottia
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:10 pm

Umeria wrote:Personally, I'd consider social democracy

Social democracy is left of centre but not left wing, since Bad Godesberg.

Also anarchists come in a lot of variants, including ancaps. So, no, anarchy isn't necessarily left-wing.
Last edited by Risottia on Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Baigalia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Baigalia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:11 pm

What qualifies as left wing, to me, is something that is related to liberalism and democracy. That's about it.

I don't consider communism and socialism "left wing"; rather, I believe it would be in the "far-left wing" of the plane.

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Sweden 2022 RP
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sweden 2022 RP » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:13 pm

Baigalia wrote:What qualifies as left wing, to me, is something that is related to liberalism and democracy. That's about it.

I don't consider communism and socialism "left wing"; rather, I believe it would be in the "far-left wing" of the plane.

That's still "left" though, if I walk backwards 30 steps I'm not going a different direction, I'm still going backwards, just further backwards.

Bad analogy sure, but you get the point. No matter what a left ideology IS left, whether far left, centre left or just left.
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Cuba 2022 RP
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Founded: Sep 12, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cuba 2022 RP » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:14 pm

Sweden 2022 RP wrote:
Vistulange wrote:Sorry, how is this substantially going to be different from the left-wing discussion thread or the "left-wing extremism" thread?

The radicals are going to come in and say that their brand of the ideology is the one true way and that everybody else is an undesirable, the moderates will stay silent, there'll be some flaming, and then moderation is going to lock the thread for being a reiteration of one of those two threads, or both.
Yes, the mods should and probably will lock it.

On topic, left wing is anything left on the political spectrum. Sure, the first thing I think is Communism, but it's just left wing ideologies in general.

This is a dumb answer.

Leftism is when something is leftist!

It’s like answering “whats X” with “X is X”

This, I think, is an interesting question, it’s asking the definition of leftism, like, a solid definition.
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Crimson Tree
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Crimson Tree » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:17 pm

Well, if I had a bird, the wing on the left side...
Oh, wrong left-wing!
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Sordhau
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sordhau » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:25 pm

Your poll's terminology is all over the place tbh.

Like Libertarian - there's a Right-wing and Left-wing form of Libertarianism. The former is more common in the US, and is what most people think of when they think of "Libertarianism", whereas the latter includes less famous figures like Rosa Luxemburg.

Anarchism has a similar problem. There are Leftist and Rightist versions of Anarchism. The former are more common than the latter, but the latter do exist. Usually in living memes like Anarcho-Capitalism.
Last edited by Sordhau on Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Western Theram
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Western Theram » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:27 pm

As much as radicals hate to hear it social democracy and anything that furthers an ideology of social and economic equality qualifies as left-wing. It’s one of the most common type of leftist party. Liberalism and libertarian are vague as they can be considered right-wing unless you specify left libertarianism. That’s also why some say the U.S. doesn’t have a legitimate left-wing party
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Umeria
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:31 pm

Sordhau wrote:Your poll's terminology is all over the place tbh.

Like Libertarian - there's a Right-wing and Left-wing form of Libertarianism. The former is more common in the US, and is what most people think of when they think of "Libertarianism", whereas the latter includes less famous figures like Rosa Luxemburg.

Anarchism has a similar problem. There are Leftist and Rightist versions of Anarchism. The former are more common than the latter, but the latter do exist. Usually in living memes like Anarcho-Capitalism.

Unfortunately it only let me enter 10 options. I'd say assume they're the more common varieties.
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Shermania
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Founded: Oct 21, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shermania » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:31 pm

Broadly speaking, the left wing is any ideology that seeks to reform or advance society and the state. Whereas the right wing is any ideology that seeks to maintain the status quo, or return to a previous status quo.

If the left wing seems more diverse than the right wing, it is only because of the inherent difficulty in choosing a way forward. Whereas moving back is comparably simple.
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Port Caverton
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Port Caverton » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:33 pm

The poll considers Fascism to be more leftist than Marxism...
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Cuba 2022 RP
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Cuba 2022 RP » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:33 pm

Two questions

1, how does market socialism have more votes than communism on the poll

2, how is fascism winning?
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Diarcesia
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Diarcesia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:38 pm

It's the wing of an aircraft fitted with the red navigation lights.

Oh, you mean the political ideology? The common theme is that they involve some sort of state-enforced (re)distribution of resources economically, and a more laissez-faire attitude towards citizens' identity and behavior socially.

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Bovad
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Bovad » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:39 pm

Anticapitalism
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Alcala-Cordel
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:43 pm

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.
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Diarcesia
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Diarcesia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:44 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

National Socialism, it's in the name.

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El Lazaro
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:52 pm

Leftism is when you argue about what leftism is

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Bovad
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Bovad » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:52 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

National Socialism, it's in the name.

I remind those people to support the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
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Drongonia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Drongonia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:56 pm

It depends on who you ask, like most things.

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