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[SUBMITTED] Post-Prosecution Demise

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Barlyy
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[SUBMITTED] Post-Prosecution Demise

Postby Barlyy » Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:06 am

Hi, Got Issues. I'd like your feedback on this. (The grammar might be a bit sloppy, please point out any errors)
[title]Post-Prosecution Demise
[validity]does not have "no judiciary"
[description]Two days after infamous criminal and serial killer Edward Salamanca was sentenced to life in prison, Michael Roundsworth, the prosecutor in the case, was murdered in his sleep. This is the third prosecutor to have been murdered after convicting a criminal this year. Prosecutors all over @@NATION@@ are now up in arms and are demanding you do something.

[option1]"We have no safety!" cries prosecutor @@RANDOMNAME_1@@ after pouring coffee all over your desk. "Any criminal with outside connections is bound to put out a hit on us the moment they're imprisoned! Our security clearly needs to be held to higher standards. A few police officers working around-the-clock around our houses for a few weeks ought to give us the safety we need."
[effect]prosecutors blame lack of sleep not on case overload but on police officers

[option2]"I agree, but we must go further," claims head prosecutor Frank von Kill while preparing some instant noodles. "Frankly, the government must provide us more than just a few weeks worth of protection. If the government provided max-security housing to us prosecutors, with state-of-the-art security systems, all would be right with the world. Oh, and would you mind creating a steady inflow of Dàguó takeout?"
[effect]takeout restaurants are failing to keep up with the government's rapidly expanding order list

[option3]"I hope you don't intend on listening to these proposals," says seasoned defense attorney @@RANDOMNAME_2@@, dropping a 200 page report on the floor in the process. "Not only would they drain the police budget or translate into more funding towards law enforcement, which is undesirable for the rest of the public sectors, they would also mean magistrates would err towards the side of prosecutors as you would be giving them special treatment. You must reject these outrageous proposals. Instead, the government could reduce the amount of prosecutors and encourage the remaining ones to drop cases which could be dangerous for their safety. That way, the safety of my archneme-- err, my colleagues would be ensured."
[effect]100% of law students become defense attorneys

[title]Post-Prosecution Demise
[validity]does not have "no judiciary"
[description]Two days after infamous criminal and serial killer Edward Salamanca was sentenced to life in prison, Michael Roundsworth, the prosecutor in the case, was murdered in his sleep. *This is the seventh prosecutor to have been murdered after convicting a criminal this month.* Prosecutors all over @@NATION@@ are now up in arms and are demanding you do something.

[option1]"We have no safety!" cries prosecutor @@RANDOMNAME@@ after pouring coffee all over your desk. "Any criminal with outside connections is bound to put out a hit on us the moment they're imprisoned! We clearly need to be held to higher standards. A few police officers working on-the-clock around our houses for a few weeks ought to give us the safety we need."
[effect]half of the law enforcement budget goes to protecting prosecutors

[option2]"I agree, but we must go further," claims head prosecutor Frank von Kill while gazing into your eyes with a smug expression. "Frankly, the government must provide us more than just a few weeks worth of protection. If the government provided max-security housing to us prosecutors, with state-of-the-art security systems, all would be right with the world. Oh, and please make it free, would you?"
[effect]law students confuse prosecutors with dormitory residents

[option3]"Whaaaaaat? They want extra protection for putting innocent people in jail?" yells seasoned defense attorney @@RANDOMNAME@@, dropping a 200 page report on the floor in the process. "That's ridiculous! Not only would it serve as justification for even more money going to the po-pos, which means less money for other departments, it would also translate into prosecutors not being held liable for their wrongdoings. You must reject these outrageous proposals. If they want protection, they should go defend themselves."
[effect]100% of law students become defense attorneys
Last edited by Barlyy on Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:03 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Galactic Powers
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Postby Galactic Powers » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:12 pm

Don’t seem like something the gov would need to be involved in, no? Murder is already a crime, and people who kill prosecutors would then be punished by the law. It’s a non issue.
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Postby Barlyy » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:16 pm

Galactic Powers wrote:Don’t seem like something the gov would need to be involved in, no? Murder is already a crime, and people who kill prosecutors would then be punished by the law. It’s a non issue.

The issue here is more "prevention of murder" rather than the murder itself. The murder of Michael serves as a catalyst for prosecutors demanding heightened protection, and I'd say that's certainly something the leader needs to deal with.
Last edited by Barlyy on Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Galactic Powers » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:22 pm

Barlyy wrote:
Galactic Powers wrote:Don’t seem like something the gov would need to be involved in, no? Murder is already a crime, and people who kill prosecutors would then be punished by the law. It’s a non issue.

The issue here is more "prevention of murder" rather than the murder itself. The murder of Michael serves as a catalyst for prosecutors demanding heightened protection, and I'd say that's certainly something the leader needs to deal with.

I still don’t feel like this is much of a concept for an issue, as prosecutors are rarely killed in their line of work and unless there was proven to be systematic targeting rather than one incident, it doesn’t seem like justification at all. Maybe have this murder be the latest one in a string of prosecutor deaths during controversial cases or something, make it more of an issue.
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Postby Barlyy » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:26 pm

Galactic Powers wrote:
Barlyy wrote:The issue here is more "prevention of murder" rather than the murder itself. The murder of Michael serves as a catalyst for prosecutors demanding heightened protection, and I'd say that's certainly something the leader needs to deal with.

I still don’t feel like this is much of a concept for an issue, as prosecutors are rarely killed in their line of work and unless there was proven to be systematic targeting rather than one incident, it doesn’t seem like justification at all. Maybe have this murder be the latest one in a string of prosecutor deaths during controversial cases or something, make it more of an issue.

That's a fair argument. I've edited the description accordingly to make it clear that it's more systematic.
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Postby Barlyy » Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:37 am

New draft in accordance with eminence grise feedback.
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Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:37 am

Poor Edgeworth, being killed across the multiverse if this issue goes through. I think I got one of your references in the names! Still wondering about Edward Salamanca.

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Postby Barlyy » Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:49 am

/bump
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Postby Cataleenia » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:15 am

Barlyy wrote:/bump


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Postby Barlyy » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:58 am

Cataleenia wrote:
Barlyy wrote:/bump


Drafting in GI takes a while, people typically bump after a fer days of inactivity, not 14 hours

Noted, thanks. Apologies, then...
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:27 am

Barlyy wrote:Hi, Got Issues. I'd like your feedback on this. (The grammar might be a bit sloppy, please point out any errors)
[title]Post-Prosecution Demise
[validity]does not have "no judiciary"
[description]Two days after infamous criminal and serial killer Edward Salamanca was sentenced to life in prison, Michael Roundsworth, the prosecutor in the case, was murdered in his sleep. This is the seventh prosecutor to have been murdered after convicting a criminal this month. Prosecutors all over @@NATION@@ are now up in arms and are demanding you do something.

[option1]"We have no safety!" cries prosecutor @@RANDOMNAME@@ after pouring coffee all over your desk. "Any criminal with outside connections is bound to put out a hit on us the moment they're imprisoned! Our security clearly needs to be held to higher standards. A few police officers working on-the-clock around our houses for a few weeks ought to give us the safety we need."
[effect]prosecutors blame lack of sleep not on case overload but on police officers

[option2]"I agree, but we must go further," claims head prosecutor Frank von Kill while gazing into your eyes with a smug expression. "Frankly, the government must provide us more than just a few weeks worth of protection. If the government provided max-security housing to us prosecutors, with state-of-the-art security systems, all would be right with the world. Oh, and please make it free, would you?"
[effect]criminals call the facilities prosecutors live in "the wig houses"

[option3]"Whaaaaaat? They want extra protection for putting innocent people in jail?" yells seasoned defense attorney @@RANDOMNAME@@, dropping a 200 page report on the floor in the process. "That's ridiculous! Not only would it serve as justification for even more money going to the po-pos, which means less money for other departments, it would also translate into prosecutors not being held liable for their wrongdoings. You must reject these outrageous proposals. If they want protection, they should go defend themselves."
[effect]100% of law students become defense attorneys

[title]Post-Prosecution Demise
[validity]does not have "no judiciary"
[description]Two days after infamous criminal and serial killer Edward Salamanca was sentenced to life in prison, Michael Roundsworth, the prosecutor in the case, was murdered in his sleep. *This is the seventh prosecutor to have been murdered after convicting a criminal this month.* Prosecutors all over @@NATION@@ are now up in arms and are demanding you do something.

[option1]"We have no safety!" cries prosecutor @@RANDOMNAME@@ after pouring coffee all over your desk. "Any criminal with outside connections is bound to put out a hit on us the moment they're imprisoned! We clearly need to be held to higher standards. A few police officers working on-the-clock around our houses for a few weeks ought to give us the safety we need."
[effect]half of the law enforcement budget goes to protecting prosecutors

[option2]"I agree, but we must go further," claims head prosecutor Frank von Kill while gazing into your eyes with a smug expression. "Frankly, the government must provide us more than just a few weeks worth of protection. If the government provided max-security housing to us prosecutors, with state-of-the-art security systems, all would be right with the world. Oh, and please make it free, would you?"
[effect]law students confuse prosecutors with dormitory residents

[option3]"Whaaaaaat? They want extra protection for putting innocent people in jail?" yells seasoned defense attorney @@RANDOMNAME@@, dropping a 200 page report on the floor in the process. "That's ridiculous! Not only would it serve as justification for even more money going to the po-pos, which means less money for other departments, it would also translate into prosecutors not being held liable for their wrongdoings. You must reject these outrageous proposals. If they want protection, they should go defend themselves."
[effect]100% of law students become defense attorneys

Magistrates giving out lenient sentences out of fear of retaliation is an interesting premise. Who killed the magistrates, friends/family of the perpetrator? Also, in many countries, the judge doesn't decide if the perpetrator is guilty or innocent, the jury does, the judge just decides the punishment
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Postby Barlyy » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:38 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Magistrates giving out lenient sentences out of fear of retaliation is an interesting premise. Who killed the magistrates, friends/family of the perpetrator? Also, in many countries, the judge doesn't decide if the perpetrator is guilty or innocent, the jury does, the judge just decides the punishment

Wow, that does sound interesting! I decided to go with a different angle, but I think that one's a pretty feasible idea as well.
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Postby Barlyy » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:52 am

/bump
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Postby Barlyy » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:11 am

/bump
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Postby Verdant Haven » Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 am

- With the hard-coded names in the description... I might be a bit slow, but I don't recognize them. Are Edward Salamanca and Michael Roundsworth specific references to a real situation? Any reason for them not to be random? Similar question for the second option.

- While I see the feedback you received above, having seven prosecutors killed in a month in unrelated incidents is a bit much – that's a total breakdown of all social order. In the US, at least, the National DA association accounts for "only" nine such killings since 1969 that are definitely known to be tied to their work, with the most recent two being coworkers killed by the same person. Perhaps work on how the scale of this is presented.

- For effect one, why would being provided home security cause lack of sleep?

- I'm not quite getting the characterization of the second speaker. Why is this person smug? They're asking for extensive government-provided benefits to protect their life – hardly a position of smug superiority. I also think asking the government to provide the housing and security in question implicitly carries the "for free" aspect with it – that tends to be what government-provided means.

- Effect 2... Is this a reference to the perukes of UK barristers? I'm not sure there's enough humor or context here to make the line work. Maybe something related to the similarity between maximum security prisons and maximum security residences? Housing lawyers in prisons? Not sure.

- In option 3, bearing in mind that the speaker is a "seasoned defense attorney" I might suggest having them speak in a manner befitting what they do and who they're talking to. A lawyer making an argument to Leader is probably going to bring their A-game... not be mimicking a YouTube reaction video. I also don't think a lawyer, even a hardcore defense attorney, would suggest that deliberate exposure to murder is an acceptable way to hold prosecutors liable. This needs to be a counterproposal, not just a "ignore the others" option. Ignoring the issue is the purpose of the dismiss button.
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Postby Barlyy » Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:50 am

Verdant Haven wrote:- With the hard-coded names in the description... I might be a bit slow, but I don't recognize them. Are Edward Salamanca and Michael Roundsworth specific references to a real situation? Any reason for them not to be random? Similar question for the second option.

Eduardo "Lalo" Salamanca is a fictional drug dealer and serial killer from the show Better Call Saul. He coerces a defence lawyer to represent him in court and do his bidding. In one of the episodes (I can't remember which...), he's charged with murder of several individuals. His lawyer manages to get him out with just a bail, but knowing the character, the situation which occurs here would have almost certainly occurred then if he was imprisoned.

The other two are references to prosecutors from "Ace Attorney"—Miles Edgeworth and Franziska von Karma.

I had been wondering if references to fictional characters which don't have the strictest tie to the issue itself would be acceptable. What are your thoughts on this?
Verdant Haven wrote:- While I see the feedback you received above, having seven prosecutors killed in a month in unrelated incidents is a bit much – that's a total breakdown of all social order. In the US, at least, the National DA association accounts for "only" nine such killings since 1969 that are definitely known to be tied to their work, with the most recent two being coworkers killed by the same person. Perhaps work on how the scale of this is presented.

Fixed to be somewhat more realistic while still making it more of an issue.
Verdant Haven wrote:- For effect one, why would being provided home security cause lack of sleep?

Police lights continuously flashing at night with people talking on walkie-talkies would be annoying, especially if they're inside/around the outskirts of your house, no?
Verdant Haven wrote:- I'm not quite getting the characterization of the second speaker. Why is this person smug? They're asking for extensive government-provided benefits to protect their life – hardly a position of smug superiority. I also think asking the government to provide the housing and security in question implicitly carries the "for free" aspect with it – that tends to be what government-provided means.

Updated to [hopefully] be more humourous. If you're wondering "why instand noodles? why Dàguó takeout?"; it's a pretty common stereotype that lawyers and prosecutors love chinese takeout.

Verdant Haven wrote:- Effect 2... Is this a reference to the perukes of UK barristers? I'm not sure there's enough humor or context here to make the line work. Maybe something related to the similarity between maximum security prisons and maximum security residences? Housing lawyers in prisons? Not sure.

Yes, it was. Updated to fit the takeout trope.

Verdant Haven wrote:- In option 3, bearing in mind that the speaker is a "seasoned defense attorney" I might suggest having them speak in a manner befitting what they do and who they're talking to. A lawyer making an argument to Leader is probably going to bring their A-game... not be mimicking a YouTube reaction video. I also don't think a lawyer, even a hardcore defense attorney, would suggest that deliberate exposure to murder is an acceptable way to hold prosecutors liable. This needs to be a counterproposal, not just a "ignore the others" option. Ignoring the issue is the purpose of the dismiss button.

Wholly updated to be more legalese.
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Postby Galactic Powers » Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:46 pm

Addressing the criticism of unrealism (which is kind of my fault, but I stand by one incident not being enough for this issue), this issue might have high crime as a prerequisite. Can't issues do that? Or am I misremembering?
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Postby Barlyy » Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:17 am

Galactic Powers wrote:Addressing the criticism of unrealism (which is kind of my fault, but I stand by one incident not being enough for this issue), this issue might have high crime as a prerequisite. Can't issues do that? Or am I misremembering?

And why is that necessary, exactly? There are plenty of issues about crime without high crime being a prerequisite -- "Terrorists Strike City Centre!" would be an example.
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Postby Ostrovskiy » Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:49 am

I think you forgot to put macros in some places, especially in the description. The names should be @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, @@RANDOMNAME_2@@, and so on.
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Postby Barlyy » Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:54 am

Ostrovskiy wrote:I think you forgot to put macros in some places, especially in the description. The names should be @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, @@RANDOMNAME_2@@, and so on.

Fixed the ones in the options. However, the custom names in the description are intentional and are references. Refer to the discussion(s) between VH and I.
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Postby Barlyy » Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:40 am

/bump
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Postby Barlyy » Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:20 pm

/bump again.
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Postby Barlyy » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:56 am

/bump
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Postby Barlyy » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:32 am

/bump
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Postby Barlyy » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:18 am

Moving this to last call, will submit in 4 days.
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