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2022 Qatar FIFA World Cup Megathread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who Will Win the World Cup [poll in order of current FIFA rankings] - Quarter final edition

Brazil
4
24%
Argentina
3
18%
France
2
12%
England
2
12%
Netherlands
4
24%
Portugal
1
6%
Croatia
0
No votes
Morocco
1
6%
Other [please explain in great detail]
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 17

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The Archregimancy
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2022 Qatar FIFA World Cup Megathread

Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:19 am

After a quick exchange of TGs between Blaat and myself acknowledging that it's less than one month from the opening game...

Welcome to the 2022 Qatar FIFA World Cup megathread!

This is where you can discuss all things related to the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Potential questions:

1) Who's going to win the World Cup (the poll simply uses current FIFA world rankings, in current order, for the top 9 choices - don't blame me for Germany's omission)? I predict it won't be Saudi Arabia or Australia.

EDIT: The revised knockout stage poll also uses FIFA rankings for the 9 highest-ranked teams left in the tournament; so don't blame me because Morocco, Senegal, the USA, Poland, Australia, Japan, Morocco, and/or South Korea aren't in the poll.

2) Who's going to win the Wales - United States match on 21 November (Wales, obvs) or the much anticipated Ghana - Uruguay grudge match on 2 December (look, some of us haven't forgotten this)?

3) What the hell were FIFA thinking in awarding the World Cup to Qatar; and as likely the only person semi-regularly posting here who's actually worked in Qatar, let me note that quite apart from being an authoritarian petrostate, it also has the single most dismal natural landscape of any country I've ever been to. Give me some time, and I might rouse myself to post some representative personal pictures of the Qatari 'countryside'.

And anything else World Cup-related that might take your fancy, of course.


Also, one of the skyscrapers in central Doha looks like a giant condom, while one of the World Cup stadiums looks like a giant vulva. Why do they titter so?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Result of first thread poll:

Who Will Win the World Cup [poll in order of current FIFA rankings]
[number of votes followed by percentage]

Brazil; 59; 25%
Belgium; 9; 4%
Argentina; 36; 16%
France; 17; 7%
England; 36; 16%
Spain; 9; 4%
Netherlands; 9; 4%
Portugal; 7; 3%
Denmark; 4; 2%
Other [why, oh why, Arch, did you leave out Germany?] 46; 20%

Result of Second poll (during group of 16):

Brazil 16; 28%
Argentina 6; 10%
France 7; 12%
England 10; 17%
Spain 1; 2%
Netherlands 7; 12%
Portugal 2; 3%
Croatia 2; 3%
Switzerland 0; No votes
Other [why, oh why, Arch, did you leave out Morocco?] 7; 12%
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:20 am, edited 6 times in total.
Reason: Adding results of second poll; removing second poll; adding third poll

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:22 am

How many slaves died to make the cup possible? Are those figures known?
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HUElavia
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Postby HUElavia » Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:26 am

My Top 4 to win the WC is as follows: Argentina, England, Brazil or Germany.

I think these four (plus France) have the best squads for a deep run to win the World Cup.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:32 am

The Alma Mater wrote:How many slaves died to make the cup possible? Are those figures known?


As it happens, you're almost certainly restricting the death toll if you only count functionally enslaved workers; the level of human rights abuses is likely much, much higher.

But if you include all migrant workers, not just the ones who are on a functional slave wage, you're likely looking at over 6500 migrant worker deaths; which is one of the reasons so many of use are uncomfortable with this World Cup.

The decisions to award 2018 to Russia and 2022 to Qatar retrospectively look... well; more than a little problematic.

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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:01 am

I shall not be watching it.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:37 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:How many slaves died to make the cup possible? Are those figures known?


As it happens, you're almost certainly restricting the death toll if you only count functionally enslaved workers; the level of human rights abuses is likely much, much higher.

But if you include all migrant workers, not just the ones who are on a functional slave wage, you're likely looking at over 6500 migrant worker deaths; which is one of the reasons so many of use are uncomfortable with this World Cup.

The decisions to award 2018 to Russia and 2022 to Qatar retrospectively look... well; more than a little problematic.

Some say problematic, others criminal... just a wee bit of line between the two.
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Vazhiristan
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Postby Vazhiristan » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:25 am

December for a World Cup.

Maybe it'll lighten up an otherwise dreary month.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:58 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
As it happens, you're almost certainly restricting the death toll if you only count functionally enslaved workers; the level of human rights abuses is likely much, much higher.

But if you include all migrant workers, not just the ones who are on a functional slave wage, you're likely looking at over 6500 migrant worker deaths; which is one of the reasons so many of use are uncomfortable with this World Cup.

The decisions to award 2018 to Russia and 2022 to Qatar retrospectively look... well; more than a little problematic.

Some say problematic, others criminal... just a wee bit of line between the two.


There's two issues here we should separate out:

1) Where the votes for 2018 and 2022 fixed? The answer is almost certainly yes; this is corrupt and problematic, and there's no shortage of evidence that behaviour of FIFA leadership around this time was criminally corrupt. But for better or for worse, no one's ever been found guilty of corruption over the host votes, and the tournaments went ahead.

2) Has the behaviour of the 2018 and 2022 hosts around the tournament been criminal since the host votes? Russia has been breaching international law left and right since 2018, and has since become an international pariah, but the tournament itself was well-organised, free of visible active criminality, and - somewhat regrettably with the benefit of hindsight - one of the best tournaments of my lifetime. Qatar, in contrast, has prepared for the tournament in such a way that thousands of migrant labourers - many of them functionally on slave wages - have died so that we might have nice stadiums. The country also remains a cesspit of human rights abuse on a scale that would have made 2018 Putin blush (not so sure about 2022 Putin).

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:06 am

Vazhiristan wrote:December for a World Cup.

Maybe it'll lighten up an otherwise dreary month.

"Dreary"?
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Postby Gavierland » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:13 am

As for Ghana , I don't care if we don't get to the round of 16 as long as we get our Revenge! on Uruguay.
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Vazhiristan
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Postby Vazhiristan » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:13 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Vazhiristan wrote:December for a World Cup.

Maybe it'll lighten up an otherwise dreary month.

"Dreary"?

Dreary.
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Najairadarethu
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Postby Najairadarethu » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:25 am

First of all, I hate that it's in Qatar. It's not only because of the human rights violations, there have been major sports events in Russia and China before and the world didn't make that much of a fuss about it. But Qatar has no tradition of football, let alone a fanbase. And it's just another example of the widespread hipocrisy in the Arab world towards the West. While they condemn the West for being decadent and responsible for 99% of the evil in the world, they keep on trying to enhance their image and status by buying Western sports events, Western education, Western technology and driving Western sports cars on roads between skyscrapers designed by Western architects. I can't help it, the whole thing just repulses me.

For the winner: I'd boringly go for Brazil, because the teams seems pretty well developed to me and has a very high level of average individual quality of the players. France has even better individual players, but too many big egos in the team and might lack the last bit of motivation it takes after having won the thing in 2018. Belgium is too old, England doesn't make enough of its talent. Argentina? Maybe, but it strikes me they might be looking better than they are because they play against so many weak teams, if I'm not mistaken. And no worries about leaving out Germany. I'm pretty sure they won't stand a chance, they neither have a reliable defence nor offence. If they even get that far, Brazil could get their chance for historic revenge in the quarter finals. :)

Oh, and I forgot my true number 2 favourite: Spain. If they manage to play less "ideologically" when the time for it has come.
Last edited by Najairadarethu on Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Ariddia
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Postby Ariddia » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:32 am

There are quite a few matches I'd have liked to watch. All of the games of Group B; all of France's, notably against Denmark which tends to be more of a pain to us than any other nation in football; a look at what Canada's football team is actually like; and a wish to see Ghana top group H.

But I cannot in good conscience watch a competition for which thousands of lives have been sacrificed for entertainment. So with great regret, I'll be skipping this one.
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Najairadarethu
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Postby Najairadarethu » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:36 am

Gavierland wrote:As for Ghana , I don't care if we don't get to the round of 16 as long as we get our Revenge! on Uruguay.


I assume you are referring to this match?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDpx9GGH79I

That was so painful to watch back then, and so fucking unfair.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:59 am

Najairadarethu wrote:
Gavierland wrote:As for Ghana , I don't care if we don't get to the round of 16 as long as we get our Revenge! on Uruguay.


I assume you are referring to this match?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDpx9GGH79I

That was so painful to watch back then, and so fucking unfair.


Yeah, and it put whereyouthinkyougoing(old nsg poster) who is German, in the weird of spot of having to support the Netherlands in the subsequent Uruguay - Netherlands match.

I'm not sure if I'll be watching the matches. Perhaps if the Netherlands do well beyond the group stage.

Probably not. Our defense is good. But our strikers lack the quality that they had in earlier years.
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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:03 am

Vazhiristan wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:"Dreary"?

Dreary.

I request elaboration for this claim.
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:32 am

Najairadarethu wrote:First of all, I hate that it's in Qatar. It's not only because of the human rights violations, there have been major sports events in Russia and China before and the world didn't make that much of a fuss about it. But Qatar has no tradition of football, let alone a fanbase.


This is not really true.

They do very much have a fan base; most Gulf countries are passionate about football. Whatever the fundamental flaws of holding a tournament in Qatar, I wouldn't doubt the passion of the local fans (even if they're much more interested in English football than they are Qatari football).

In terms of 'no tradition of football', as it happens I personally attended Qatar's first-ever match at a high-profile international tournament when they - somewhat remarkably - managed a 2-2 draw with France in Annapolis, Maryland during the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.

Match report here: https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/m ... nter/12679

They then lost to Chile and Norway in their remaining two matches.

They didn't build on that qualifying success, and haven't managed to qualify for a World Cup or Olympics since, but they've attempted to qualify for all but one World Cup since they became an independent nation in the 1970s, and have only failed to qualify for two AFC cups since becoming independent.

It would be fair enough to state that the national team traditionally hasn't threatened to do much, but that's not quite the same as saying they have no tradition.

There are plenty of reasons for being opposed to Qatar hosting the World Cup, but sneering at a football tradition that you don't fully understand isn't really one of them.

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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:45 am

Tempted to think it might be a mediocre tournament. Unless the cooling technologies in the stadiums work very well the matches could be quite slow-paced. The atmosphere may also fall a bit flat if the effects of the tech fade the further you get from pitch-level, generally doesn't seem a particularly inspiring location for foreign fans and I'm sceptical as to how full the stadiums will be. Will still watch it on telly though.
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Najairadarethu
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Postby Najairadarethu » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:19 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Najairadarethu wrote:First of all, I hate that it's in Qatar. It's not only because of the human rights violations, there have been major sports events in Russia and China before and the world didn't make that much of a fuss about it. But Qatar has no tradition of football, let alone a fanbase.


This is not really true.

They do very much have a fan base; most Gulf countries are passionate about football. Whatever the fundamental flaws of holding a tournament in Qatar, I wouldn't doubt the passion of the local fans (even if they're much more interested in English football than they are Qatari football).

In terms of 'no tradition of football', as it happens I personally attended Qatar's first-ever match at a high-profile international tournament when they - somewhat remarkably - managed a 2-2 draw with France in Annapolis, Maryland during the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.

Match report here: https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/m ... nter/12679

They then lost to Chile and Norway in their remaining two matches.

They didn't build on that qualifying success, and haven't managed to qualify for a World Cup or Olympics since, but they've attempted to qualify for all but one World Cup since they became an independent nation in the 1970s, and have only failed to qualify for two AFC cups since becoming independent.

It would be fair enough to state that the national team traditionally hasn't threatened to do much, but that's not quite the same as saying they have no tradition.

There are plenty of reasons for being opposed to Qatar hosting the World Cup, but sneering at a football tradition that you don't fully understand isn't really one of them.



There are many countries on that level of "tradition", probably about 80% of all countries in the world. Football is a global product with fans all around the globe, in the end, so maybe there are a couple of fans. But how many, actually, given that there aren't even half a million Qataris who actually hold citizenship? Their team never made any significant appearance in any tournament, there are no well-known clubs or players, they have no league anyone outside Qatar would take any interest in, and 6 out of eight stadiums for the WC had to be newly built and might not serve any purpose afterwards. Many experts even say that Qatar handed in the worst bid. I think there are at least 100 countries in the world that would be more suitable hosts if tradition was a more important criterion. Qatar basically got it for the money.

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Postby Terra Saare » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:29 am

I hope Canada go insane and reach the quarterfinals, considering they're (technically) the worst team in their group.
But that'd require knocking out Belgium or Croatia so i'm gonna be very tentative on it
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Postby Vazhiristan » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:31 am

Terra Saare wrote:I hope Canada go insane and reach the quarterfinals, considering they're (technically) the worst team in their group.
But that'd require knocking out Belgium or Croatia so i'm gonna be very tentative on it

I think we all know that won't happen.

Don't fret. My home country never even qualifies :rofl:
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Gavierland
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Postby Gavierland » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:33 am

Najairadarethu wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
This is not really true.

They do very much have a fan base; most Gulf countries are passionate about football. Whatever the fundamental flaws of holding a tournament in Qatar, I wouldn't doubt the passion of the local fans (even if they're much more interested in English football than they are Qatari football).

In terms of 'no tradition of football', as it happens I personally attended Qatar's first-ever match at a high-profile international tournament when they - somewhat remarkably - managed a 2-2 draw with France in Annapolis, Maryland during the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.

Match report here: https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/m ... nter/12679

They then lost to Chile and Norway in their remaining two matches.

They didn't build on that qualifying success, and haven't managed to qualify for a World Cup or Olympics since, but they've attempted to qualify for all but one World Cup since they became an independent nation in the 1970s, and have only failed to qualify for two AFC cups since becoming independent.

It would be fair enough to state that the national team traditionally hasn't threatened to do much, but that's not quite the same as saying they have no tradition.

There are plenty of reasons for being opposed to Qatar hosting the World Cup, but sneering at a football tradition that you don't fully understand isn't really one of them.



There are many countries on that level of "tradition", probably about 80% of all countries in the world. Football is a global product with fans all around the globe, in the end, so maybe there are a couple of fans. But how many, actually, given that there aren't even half a million Qataris who actually hold citizenship? Their team never made any significant appearance in any tournament, there are no well-known clubs or players, they have no league anyone outside Qatar would take any interest in, and 6 out of eight stadiums for the WC had to be newly built and might not serve any purpose afterwards. Many experts even say that Qatar handed in the worst bid. I think there are at least 100 countries in the world that would be more suitable hosts if tradition was a more important criterion. Qatar basically got it for the money.


Well they won the Asian Cup in 2019 but I understand what you are saying because I was wondering today what will happen to all the glamorous oddly shaped stadiums after the tournament.
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Terra Saare
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Postby Terra Saare » Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:37 am

Vazhiristan wrote:
Don't fret. My home country never even qualifies :rofl:


And my nation hasn't gone past the group stage since Mexico '86 so this is gonna be fun...

AND i don't see them breaking that streak this year, unless we beat MEX but that seems to be a tall task-
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Najairadarethu
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Postby Najairadarethu » Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:03 am

Gavierland wrote:
Najairadarethu wrote:

There are many countries on that level of "tradition", probably about 80% of all countries in the world. Football is a global product with fans all around the globe, in the end, so maybe there are a couple of fans. But how many, actually, given that there aren't even half a million Qataris who actually hold citizenship? Their team never made any significant appearance in any tournament, there are no well-known clubs or players, they have no league anyone outside Qatar would take any interest in, and 6 out of eight stadiums for the WC had to be newly built and might not serve any purpose afterwards. Many experts even say that Qatar handed in the worst bid. I think there are at least 100 countries in the world that would be more suitable hosts if tradition was a more important criterion. Qatar basically got it for the money.


Well they won the Asian Cup in 2019 but I understand what you are saying because I was wondering today what will happen to all the glamorous oddly shaped stadiums after the tournament.


Thanks for the info, I had totally forgotten about that. But technically, that was way after the WC was given to them. :) And also take into consideration how they built up their team, not only in football. Their best striker was probably not even legally eligible for the national team, if Wikipedia has it right.
Last edited by Najairadarethu on Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:13 am

Vazhiristan wrote:
Terra Saare wrote:I hope Canada go insane and reach the quarterfinals, considering they're (technically) the worst team in their group.
But that'd require knocking out Belgium or Croatia so i'm gonna be very tentative on it

I think we all know that won't happen.

Don't fret. My home country never even qualifies :rofl:

Mine neither.

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