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[SUBMITTED] Cross-Country Custody

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North Macaronesa
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[SUBMITTED] Cross-Country Custody

Postby North Macaronesa » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:06 pm

issue has been submitted

[title] Cross-Country Custody

[validity] Nation has to be capitalist, needs a judiciary system, and allows immigration

[desc] A few days ago, a seven-year-old boy named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ washed up on your shores after his boat, trying to escape the socialist nation of San Vitenzo, broke apart and accompanying family drowned, leaving him as the sole survivor. Even more confusing, he has relatives in both @@CAPITAL@@ and in San Vitenzo. It quickly spiraled into an international custody issue. Today, a few people have begun arriving in your office, as well as @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ himself to discuss where he should stay.

[option]"@@LEADER@@! We demand @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ stay in @@NAME@@!" chants @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, an elderly resident of Little San Vitenzo, a popular and powerful neighborhood for San Vitenzan expats."We risked our lives crossing the ocean to get to @@NAME@@, just to open a donut shop in a country where the government won't steal my money! We must honor the wishes of his dead relatives, show us they didn't die for nothing! Who cares what those communist San Vitenzans think anyways, right?" She places a life-sized portrait of @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_1@@ on your doorstep, before turning to argue with the police.

[effect]the @@DEMONYM@@ government regularly grants asylum to pieces of driftwood found near san vitenzo

[option]A group of rather official-looking politicians gathers in your office, and pushes the protesters out of the door. "As representatives of the glorious San Vitenzo, we demand the boy be returned to us. No trial is needed, just quick and efficient on a plane back to San Vitenzo. His San Vitenzan father is well and alive, he can be placed under his care." One of the other representatives whispers in his ear. "Well, his father might have a small disease, but my point is, you should always be returning the escapees to us, glorious San Vitenzo, or where ever they came from!" They proceed to belt out the San Vitenzan anthem as they exit.

[effect]border cities filled with migrants in @@NAME@@ suddenly find themselves empty

[option]Finally, the bedraggled and tired-looking boy arrives in your room, flanked by several of your bodyguards. "Why don't you just let us choose where we want to go? It's my choice, not the one of a grumpy old judge!" he says, as he grabs the entire bowl of candy on your desk, "Hearings take so long, they're a waste of money, it's so boring...oh! Also, relax your borders a little more, so no more family members die!" He breaks down into tears and sobs at a priceless painting in a corner.

[effect]children often choose the parent who gives them the most candy in custody disputes
Last edited by North Macaronesa on Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:20 pm, edited 25 times in total.
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm

/bump

yall got anything to say?
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Postby Cataleenia » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:57 pm

Validity capitalism?
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:36 am

Cataleenia wrote:Validity capitalism?

I agree
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Postby North Macaronesa » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:38 am

Cataleenia wrote:Validity capitalism?

Added, thank you!
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Postby Wallowis » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:48 am

also Validity has Judiciary?
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:50 am

Wallowis wrote:also Validity has Judiciary?

Added, thank you!
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Postby Pennyslov » Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:49 am

Please Read The Issue Guide! (There Are No Problems If You Already Read It)
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:25 pm

/bump
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:16 am

How old was he?
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:36 am

Australian rePublic wrote:How old was he?

About 7 when the IRL incident took place? I'll add that
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:59 pm

North Macaronesa wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:How old was he?

About 7 when the IRL incident took place? I'll add that

Good idea
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:04 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
North Macaronesa wrote:About 7 when the IRL incident took place? I'll add that

Good idea

Any other comments/suggestions? I've been thinking of a fourth option, but I need ideas
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Newland City
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Postby Newland City » Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:12 am

North Macaronesa wrote:[desc] A few months ago, a seven-year-old boy named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ washed up on your shores after his boat, trying to escape the socialist nation of San Vitenzo, broke apart and his entire family drowned, except for him. Even more confusing, he has relatives in both @@CAPITAL@@ and in San Vitenzo. It quickly spiraled into an international custody issue. Today, a few of your ministers have begun arriving in your office, as well as @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ himself to discuss where he should stay.

Really strong premise and solid opening

North Macaronesa wrote:[option]"@@LEADER@@! @@RANDOMMALENAME_1 deserves to be spared a life under communism!" chant the protesters outside your office. They hold a life-size portrait of the boy, which appears to be a badly taken school photo. "We demand he stay inside @@NAME@@, no matter what those commie San Vitenzans think!" They continue their chant while being led away by security guards.

I'm confused by the writing of this option, the speaker is protestors chanting, and yet the dialogue is written like you're talking to a representative of the protestors. I'd either change it to the latter or change the dialogue to be more chant-y, like changing it to "Save @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ from communism!" "Let him stay in name!" "Who cares what those commies think!"
North Macaronesa wrote:[effect]The @@DEMONYM@@ government regularly grants asylum to pieces of driftwood found near San Vitenzo.

This is brilliant
North Macaronesa wrote:[option]A group of rather official-looking politicians gathers in your office. "As representatives of the glorious San Vitenzo, we demand the boy be returned to us. No trial is needed, just quick and efficient on a plane back to San Vitenzo. He has relatives there, and I guarantee you would much rather love living in socialism, rather than like you capitalist pigs." He ponders for a bit. "Perhaps you should always give those escapees back to us." They proceed to belt out the San Vitenzan anthem as they exit your office.
[effect]"I hope you take a DNA test" is a common insult in @@NAME@@

The option text is good but the effect line feels weak, especially because ethnicity was never mentioned in the option itself. I'd suggest something along the lines of "Proudly @@ADJECTIVE@@ communities are suddenly shipped off to the motherland"
North Macaronesa wrote:[option]Finally, the bedraggled and tired-looking boy arrives in your room, flanked by several of your bodyguards. "Why don't you just let us choose which country we want to go to?" he says, as he flops down in one of your fluffy chairs, coating it in a layer of grime. "After all, trials take so long, they're a waste of money..." He continues the rest in a foreign language you don't understand.
[effect]Children often choose the parent who gives them the most candy in custody disputes.[/box]

I could've sworn I've seen that effect line already used in an issue. That being said , overall this is a great option




The one problem that comes with having a well-written draft is that people have less things they notice and point out and thus you get less feedback. That being said, it's also a positive because, well, it's a well-written draft! Obviously, you should wait for an editor to arrive before submitting, but I think this has a ton of potential.
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:13 pm

Newland City wrote:
North Macaronesa wrote:[desc] A few months ago, a seven-year-old boy named @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ washed up on your shores after his boat, trying to escape the socialist nation of San Vitenzo, broke apart and his entire family drowned, except for him. Even more confusing, he has relatives in both @@CAPITAL@@ and in San Vitenzo. It quickly spiraled into an international custody issue. Today, a few of your ministers have begun arriving in your office, as well as @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ himself to discuss where he should stay.

Really strong premise and solid opening

North Macaronesa wrote:[option]"@@LEADER@@! @@RANDOMMALENAME_1 deserves to be spared a life under communism!" chant the protesters outside your office. They hold a life-size portrait of the boy, which appears to be a badly taken school photo. "We demand he stay inside @@NAME@@, no matter what those commie San Vitenzans think!" They continue their chant while being led away by security guards.

I'm confused by the writing of this option, the speaker is protestors chanting, and yet the dialogue is written like you're talking to a representative of the protestors. I'd either change it to the latter or change the dialogue to be more chant-y, like changing it to "Save @@RANDOMMALENAME_1@@ from communism!" "Let him stay in name!" "Who cares what those commies think!"
North Macaronesa wrote:[effect]The @@DEMONYM@@ government regularly grants asylum to pieces of driftwood found near San Vitenzo.

This is brilliant
North Macaronesa wrote:[option]A group of rather official-looking politicians gathers in your office. "As representatives of the glorious San Vitenzo, we demand the boy be returned to us. No trial is needed, just quick and efficient on a plane back to San Vitenzo. He has relatives there, and I guarantee you would much rather love living in socialism, rather than like you capitalist pigs." He ponders for a bit. "Perhaps you should always give those escapees back to us." They proceed to belt out the San Vitenzan anthem as they exit your office.
[effect]"I hope you take a DNA test" is a common insult in @@NAME@@

The option text is good but the effect line feels weak, especially because ethnicity was never mentioned in the option itself. I'd suggest something along the lines of "Proudly @@ADJECTIVE@@ communities are suddenly shipped off to the motherland"
North Macaronesa wrote:[option]Finally, the bedraggled and tired-looking boy arrives in your room, flanked by several of your bodyguards. "Why don't you just let us choose which country we want to go to?" he says, as he flops down in one of your fluffy chairs, coating it in a layer of grime. "After all, trials take so long, they're a waste of money..." He continues the rest in a foreign language you don't understand.
[effect]Children often choose the parent who gives them the most candy in custody disputes.[/box]

I could've sworn I've seen that effect line already used in an issue. That being said , overall this is a great option




The one problem that comes with having a well-written draft is that people have less things they notice and point out and thus you get less feedback. That being said, it's also a positive because, well, it's a well-written draft! Obviously, you should wait for an editor to arrive before submitting, but I think this has a ton of potential.

Updated the first option, and added a fourth option. Also, I CTRL+F'd the effect line into mwq.dds.nl, and no results. Thank you for the feedback!
Last edited by North Macaronesa on Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:08 am

/bump
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:03 pm

Option 4 just seems like a crazy option contrived for the sake of this issue having a crazy option. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@'s relative wants to abolish the courts without explaining - as the other three speakers do - what this has to do with his case or how it will benefit him (or the relative).
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:44 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Option 4 just seems like a crazy option contrived for the sake of this issue having a crazy option. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@'s relative wants to abolish the courts without explaining - as the other three speakers do - what this has to do with his case or how it will benefit him (or the relative).

So should I change it so that she says something about bias?
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Newland City
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Postby Newland City » Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:54 am

North Macaronesa wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Option 4 just seems like a crazy option contrived for the sake of this issue having a crazy option. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@'s relative wants to abolish the courts without explaining - as the other three speakers do - what this has to do with his case or how it will benefit him (or the relative).

So should I change it so that she says something about bias?

Probably just make it more directly related to the issue. Something like "Damned courts can't even handle a simple case like this!" You could go a step further and have it essentially be a more extreme version of option 3, with the speaker advocating for the kid to choose his destination and for courts to not decide anything, everything be left up to @@DENONYMPLURAL@@

Also, on option 1 you forgot to clarify whose speaking. I'm pretty sure it's the group of protestors, but you should start with "The protestors start chanting," or "The leader of the protestors chants at you,"
Last edited by Newland City on Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:07 pm

Newland City wrote:
North Macaronesa wrote:So should I change it so that she says something about bias?

Probably just make it more directly related to the issue. Something like "Damned courts can't even handle a simple case like this!" You could go a step further and have it essentially be a more extreme version of option 3, with the speaker advocating for the kid to choose his destination and for courts to not decide anything, everything be left up to @@DENONYMPLURAL@@

Also, on option 1 you forgot to clarify whose speaking. I'm pretty sure it's the group of protestors, but you should start with "The protestors start chanting," or "The leader of the protestors chants at you,"

Edited, thank you!
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Postby North Macaronesa » Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:20 pm

/bump
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Postby Verdant Haven » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:10 pm

Hello there! Glad to see another first timer join the drafting fun.

Looks like we've got ourselves an Elian Gonzalez draft here – good choice of topic. Kinda shocked we don't have that already, but I can't think of such an issue offhand! Let's see what we can do.

- One final validity I think would be necessary here is that the nation allows immigration.

- One of the most important elements of the Gonzalez case was that it wasn't his entire family that perished... just all of the ones accompanying him. His father was still alive in Cuba, and it's the fact that he had a living parent (with a stronger claim of guardianship than an extended family member) that probably played the biggest part in the eventual outcome. I would probably work that into this.

- On the flipside, the people protesting to have Elian stay in the US weren't just anybody – they were spearheaded by a powerful expat community with intense political reasons for trying to "save" him from Cuba. Incorporating that would also make this stronger, and would provide a more compelling argument for option one.

- Option two also needs to be more compelling. Present the argument from the perspective of those giving it – not just as a trope or stereotype. "You capitalist pigs" is a laugh, but it isn't likely to be used as a sincere diplomatic legal argument. This case could be massively strengthened by having a parent alive, as suggested above.

- In option 3, why is this child grimy, bedraggled, wet, and tired? It has been "a few months" since he washed ashore, and nothing presented so far would suggest he was being kept in filth or inhumane conditions. Honestly, I might adjust the "few months" to "few days" but even so, I think that in such a situation he was likely "cleaned up" more than usual, not less, for presentation to Leader.

- Option 4 doesn't make sense for inclusion here.

- Throughout the issue... while this would be a judiciary matter that is processed by a special type of court, something like this isn't a "trial" – there's no accusation of wrongdoing, no suit filed against the boy, etc. This would be something more like an "immigration hearing" or "custody hearing" depending what's being discussed.
- Verdant Haven

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North Macaronesa
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Postby North Macaronesa » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:22 pm

Verdant Haven wrote:Hello there! Glad to see another first timer join the drafting fun.

Looks like we've got ourselves an Elian Gonzalez draft here – good choice of topic. Kinda shocked we don't have that already, but I can't think of such an issue offhand! Let's see what we can do.

- One final validity I think would be necessary here is that the nation allows immigration.

- One of the most important elements of the Gonzalez case was that it wasn't his entire family that perished... just all of the ones accompanying him. His father was still alive in Cuba, and it's the fact that he had a living parent (with a stronger claim of guardianship than an extended family member) that probably played the biggest part in the eventual outcome. I would probably work that into this.

- On the flipside, the people protesting to have Elian stay in the US weren't just anybody – they were spearheaded by a powerful expat community with intense political reasons for trying to "save" him from Cuba. Incorporating that would also make this stronger, and would provide a more compelling argument for option one.

- Option two also needs to be more compelling. Present the argument from the perspective of those giving it – not just as a trope or stereotype. "You capitalist pigs" is a laugh, but it isn't likely to be used as a sincere diplomatic legal argument. This case could be massively strengthened by having a parent alive, as suggested above.

- In option 3, why is this child grimy, bedraggled, wet, and tired? It has been "a few months" since he washed ashore, and nothing presented so far would suggest he was being kept in filth or inhumane conditions. Honestly, I might adjust the "few months" to "few days" but even so, I think that in such a situation he was likely "cleaned up" more than usual, not less, for presentation to Leader.

- Option 4 doesn't make sense for inclusion here.

- Throughout the issue... while this would be a judiciary matter that is processed by a special type of court, something like this isn't a "trial" – there's no accusation of wrongdoing, no suit filed against the boy, etc. This would be something more like an "immigration hearing" or "custody hearing" depending what's being discussed.

I'll add the expat community part into option one and the changes to option three, but I'm a little confused by your reasoning for option two. Do I include his pro-Cuba relatives? Also, I just added option four because "a crazy option contrived for the sake of this issue having a crazy option" as stated by Tinhampton. Should I remove it? I just felt like it would be a more extreme version of option three, since most issues have something like that.
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The Macaronesian Times | Hurricane Catalina relief efforts begin in the Azores, PM Toledano says | Government declares state of emergency in Faial Province following landfall of Hurricane Catalina on the island of Corvo, 13,500 people evacuated.
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Postby Verdant Haven » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:40 pm

North Macaronesa wrote:I'll add the expat community part into option one and the changes to option three, but I'm a little confused by your reasoning for option two. Do I include his pro-Cuba relatives? Also, I just added option four because "a crazy option contrived for the sake of this issue having a crazy option" as stated by Tinhampton. Should I remove it? I just felt like it would be a more extreme version of option three, since most issues have something like that.

Re: option 2 – the current text can be summarized as "We are awesome, do what we say. Ignore your process because you are wrong. You suck. By the way, you should do what we say in the future too." There isn't actually an *argument* being made. There is no appeal to any sentiment or law, nor any reason for you to listen to this person – they're just being rude and demanding. This speaker a diplomat! Have them be diplomatic, and give an argument a thinking person might agree with. I mentioned the relatives for this, because that would be a very strong argument – "The boy's father is alive and well back in San Vitenzo. As a parent, he has the strongest custodial claim!" would be a good case to make.

Re: option 4, even crazy options should be based on the actual issue that is occurring. This issue is about immigration, not the justice system, so "ban the courts" is pretty far afield to wander. You could have it be an option about removing all border controls and immigration laws, so that any future immigrants (or foundlings) will simply be able to do what they like without going through a hearing or visa process. That would be a logical follow-on to the premise. It isn't really necessary though.
- Verdant Haven

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Parai Hambriven
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Anarchy

Postby Parai Hambriven » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:43 pm

Not anything related to the forum but I'm a tad disappointed after reading through the forum that this was not a forum for cross country runners.
A cluster of islands located in the East Pacific between the modern-day Ecuadorian Galapagos and Costa Rica. Founded after a libertarian revolution overthrew imperial Spanish control of the islands, and decisive rebel victory. Now a nation effectively worshipped by libertarians and conservative Christians everywhere.

Man dead in shootout after shooting 4 dead, injuring 8 in Puebla Arena carried Communist Manifesto on his person as he opened fire, bringing new wave of criticism to communist movements nationwide.

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