Subjugation of Sol(OOC]

[Royal Frankia]

Rules:

1)Keep debate civil and on point.
2)Respect the lore and work out differences to avoid clogging the threads with scientific formulas. It's nice, but this is mostly worldbuilding.
3)Let's not derail the thread and make sure it has an adequate resolution.

Go!

[Higher Intelligence]

@Menelmacar -

"[...] in a thread with no rules, no OOC pre-planning, and no explanation of how any of this works, and what you appear to be demanding is that we, despite said lack of rules, OOC pre-planning, and explanation of how any of this works, defer to Frank on all things, despite the fact that rules were not set, there was no OOC pre-planning, and an explanation of how any of this works does not appear to be forthcoming."

Yes - it is an "Open" RP and was started by an RPer you know is not part of your RP sphere. By this fact alone you should have been aware that they may not RP in the same manner and have the same expectations going into an RP that many in your group do. What I asked, specifically, was for questions to be asked of technologies or capabilities that might otherwise not mesh with what you are familiar with. This means that instead of writing out paragraphs about why someone's technology can't work - and then demand they delete their post at the end of it - you ask them about it instead. Requesting someone to fix a godmod or OOC/IC error is one thing; disagreeing about the specifics of a technology is an entirely different ballgame.

The real kicker here is that it isn't even an issue of Frankian tech interacting with tech from the opposing side, it's Frankia being told his tech can't interact with itself in the manner he has it doing. Surely you can see the disconnect here?

"You are essentially demanding that whoever starts the thread should automatically get a decisive victory and everything else is just going through the motions. That is not happening."

This was not implied anywhere within what I stated above. Please don't misconstrue my position.

"Even if we were inclined to such an arrangement - which we are not - nobody is especially impressed that there are years of precedent. Most of the folks in our coalition have NS accounts that are old enough to vote. So, decades of precedent, and you're on our lawn, shooting at our house, in a thread with no rules, no explanations, and no pre-planning."

My point about precedent was not to impress you. I, similarly, am not particularly impressed by the age of your nations, thus I have no reason to assume you would feel any differently vis-a-vis the Franks. What I do expect people to understand, especially more seasoned roleplayers, is that radical departures from established canon have to be handled delicately and, preferably, not in the middle of an RP through demands of another party. This applies to your canon as well, which I why I stated it would have been best to ask at the outset or not participate at all. I don't expect you to change your canons. Sol is unique among many of the settled worlds of the galaxy in that its fractal nature allows for an endless sea of possible stories. The only reason this is an issue is because of the assumptions made about the Franks and the setting - I suspect if his invasion began with Jupiter-sized starships and quintillions of godlike entities that an entirely different set of assumptions would have been made. You probably wouldn't even have joined. But someone shouldn't have to RP something radically different for this to be the case. Ultimately, not every OP uses your set of rules or is open to having them forced upon their thread - and a thread being open is not necessarily an invitation for you to insert your own version of physics.exe.

[Vashtia]

Earth is flat. NASA means "Deception" in Hebrew.

[The Ctan]

Higher Intelligence/Pord, I'd say that communicating at FTL speed through FTLi is a godmod, 'sauce for me is not sauce for thee' is very much the essence of godmod, it's not intentional on Frankie's part I think, but them's the breaks, it's clear that he's used to using very long distances without considering what that is in the relativistic frame.

In any case, you've got an IC post to reply to. Will you be doing that?

From my last:

Leaving aside gurning about FTLi for now, as I’ve said my piece, I’d much appreciate if Frankia could indicate where his ships are, the maps here are from https://www.solarsystemscope.com/ and set to the time of the OP going up, at the NS Boards’ UTC -8. This will help us know where the ships are and what they’re going to encounter first. You can edit the pictures to show where they came in on the 100 AU line, or just give me a ‘two O’clock’ or degrees from vertical on here.

[Menelmacar]

@Menelmacar -

"[...] in a thread with no rules, no OOC pre-planning, and no explanation of how any of this works, and what you appear to be demanding is that we, despite said lack of rules, OOC pre-planning, and explanation of how any of this works, defer to Frank on all things, despite the fact that rules were not set, there was no OOC pre-planning, and an explanation of how any of this works does not appear to be forthcoming."

Yes - it is an "Open" RP and was started by an RPer you know is not part of your RP sphere. By this fact alone you should have been aware that they may not RP in the same manner and have the same expectations going into an RP that many in your group do. What I asked, specifically, was for questions to be asked of technologies or capabilities that might otherwise not mesh with what you are familiar with. This means that instead of writing out paragraphs about why someone's technology can't work - and then demand they delete their post at the end of it - you ask them about it instead. Requesting someone to fix a godmod or OOC/IC error is one thing; disagreeing about the specifics of a technology is an entirely different ballgame.

The real kicker here is that it isn't even an issue of Frankian tech interacting with tech from the opposing side, it's Frankia being told his tech can't interact with itself in the manner he has it doing. Surely you can see the disconnect here?

"You are essentially demanding that whoever starts the thread should automatically get a decisive victory and everything else is just going through the motions. That is not happening."

This was not implied anywhere within what I stated above. Please don't misconstrue my position.

"Even if we were inclined to such an arrangement - which we are not - nobody is especially impressed that there are years of precedent. Most of the folks in our coalition have NS accounts that are old enough to vote. So, decades of precedent, and you're on our lawn, shooting at our house, in a thread with no rules, no explanations, and no pre-planning."

My point about precedent was not to impress you. I, similarly, am not particularly impressed by the age of your nations, thus I have no reason to assume you would feel any differently vis-a-vis the Franks. What I do expect people to understand, especially more seasoned roleplayers, is that radical departures from established canon have to be handled delicately and, preferably, not in the middle of an RP through demands of another party. This applies to your canon as well, which I why I stated it would have been best to ask at the outset or not participate at all. I don't expect you to change your canons. Sol is unique among many of the settled worlds of the galaxy in that its fractal nature allows for an endless sea of possible stories. The only reason this is an issue is because of the assumptions made about the Franks and the setting - I suspect if his invasion began with Jupiter-sized starships and quintillions of godlike entities that an entirely different set of assumptions would have been made. You probably wouldn't even have joined. But someone shouldn't have to RP something radically different for this to be the case. Ultimately, not every OP uses your set of rules or is open to having them forced upon their thread - and a thread being open is not necessarily an invitation for you to insert your own version of physics.exe.

No, what is an invitation for us to insert our own version of physics.exe was the part where Frank barged onto our lawn guns blazing without warning. Had he given any one of us a poke in advance I, and everyone else on the defense here, would have been pleased to work with him to create a story where everyone has fun (in fact, we are doing this nonetheless by responding to this thread at all, it sat for four days without gaining interest from literally anyone else). The lawn is ours; Frank is the radical departure from canon, and he will have to play by our rules.

Other OP's don't get expected to play this game because they aren't OOCly unexpected attacks on our capitals and/or state their rules and premises up front. If what was desired was a roflstomp of weak NPC's and/or smol primitives then it shouldn't have been posted as an open thread.

Also, a pony has offered you a crumpet. Eat the crumpet, it's delicious.

[Royal Frankia]

@Menelmacar -

"[...] in a thread with no rules, no OOC pre-planning, and no explanation of how any of this works, and what you appear to be demanding is that we, despite said lack of rules, OOC pre-planning, and explanation of how any of this works, defer to Frank on all things, despite the fact that rules were not set, there was no OOC pre-planning, and an explanation of how any of this works does not appear to be forthcoming."

Yes - it is an "Open" RP and was started by an RPer you know is not part of your RP sphere. By this fact alone you should have been aware that they may not RP in the same manner and have the same expectations going into an RP that many in your group do. What I asked, specifically, was for questions to be asked of technologies or capabilities that might otherwise not mesh with what you are familiar with. This means that instead of writing out paragraphs about why someone's technology can't work - and then demand they delete their post at the end of it - you ask them about it instead. Requesting someone to fix a godmod or OOC/IC error is one thing; disagreeing about the specifics of a technology is an entirely different ballgame.

The real kicker here is that it isn't even an issue of Frankian tech interacting with tech from the opposing side, it's Frankia being told his tech can't interact with itself in the manner he has it doing. Surely you can see the disconnect here?

"You are essentially demanding that whoever starts the thread should automatically get a decisive victory and everything else is just going through the motions. That is not happening."

This was not implied anywhere within what I stated above. Please don't misconstrue my position.

"Even if we were inclined to such an arrangement - which we are not - nobody is especially impressed that there are years of precedent. Most of the folks in our coalition have NS accounts that are old enough to vote. So, decades of precedent, and you're on our lawn, shooting at our house, in a thread with no rules, no explanations, and no pre-planning."

My point about precedent was not to impress you. I, similarly, am not particularly impressed by the age of your nations, thus I have no reason to assume you would feel any differently vis-a-vis the Franks. What I do expect people to understand, especially more seasoned roleplayers, is that radical departures from established canon have to be handled delicately and, preferably, not in the middle of an RP through demands of another party. This applies to your canon as well, which I why I stated it would have been best to ask at the outset or not participate at all. I don't expect you to change your canons. Sol is unique among many of the settled worlds of the galaxy in that its fractal nature allows for an endless sea of possible stories. The only reason this is an issue is because of the assumptions made about the Franks and the setting - I suspect if his invasion began with Jupiter-sized starships and quintillions of godlike entities that an entirely different set of assumptions would have been made. You probably wouldn't even have joined. But someone shouldn't have to RP something radically different for this to be the case. Ultimately, not every OP uses your set of rules or is open to having them forced upon their thread - and a thread being open is not necessarily an invitation for you to insert your own version of physics.exe.

No, what is an invitation for us to insert our own version of physics.exe was the part where Frank barged onto our lawn guns blazing without warning. Had he given any one of us a poke in advance I, and everyone else on the defense here, would have been pleased to work with him to create a story where everyone has fun (in fact, we are doing this nonetheless by responding to this thread at all, it sat for four days without gaining interest from literally anyone else). The lawn is ours; Frank is the radical departure from canon, and he will have to play by our rules.

Other OP's don't get expected to play this game because they aren't OOCly unexpected attacks on our capitals and/or state their rules and premises up front. If what was desired was a roflstomp of weak NPC's and/or smol primitives then it shouldn't have been posted as an open thread.

Also, a pony has offered you a crumpet. Eat the crumpet, it's delicious.

Four days, and I was not made aware... No dms, nothing.

Your canon, not mine, but you should have known based one of your members interacting with my people. I had open threads in the past, with legit burning and pillaging in the MWG, and not a single peep was heard.

If ftl weapons had been utilized from the get-go,Sol and the fleets around it would be wiped out. The gods are dea
silent, unless you legit bring one into the thread to fight a battle that should be left to mortals.

Are you in the same portion of the Cosmos at the same time at the same moment? I can legit name others who have had claims within Sol, and have rped such. Their Sol is likely far, far differsnt than yours. Kesrith can perhaps enlighten you on that subject.

As for tech level, this should be known based on one of your members involving themselves in my lore/wars before. Ftl-i has been utilized by many of the Realms involved in this thread since time immemorial. If you invite others outside your canon into someone else's you're going to have a bad day.

The vessels alone are meant to besiege Sol, or bring its garrison to battle in the Void. If it was meant to be a ROTL stop, you would be facing the Praesental Fleet. Sol is not taken seriously by Gerwanna, you are interacting with an outlying province that sees it as a good place to hone their skills.

Tech arguments kill threads and undo the momentum. A battle thread is best settled on the actual field of battle, not attempting to analyze gods of weaponry long established.

[Higher Intelligence]

"[...] I'd say that communicating at FTL speed through FTLi is a godmod, 'sauce for me is not sauce for thee' is very much the essence of godmod, it's not intentional on Frankie's part I think, but them's the breaks, it's clear that he's used to using very long distances without considering what that is in the relativistic frame."

I believe this is more a matter of context and setting. For the Franks and most, if not all, of the factions that come from their setting (and since Kesrith is in the thread and also operates in this manner, I'll namedrop them) interdiction essentially operates as an IFF field. It stops foes. Allies and friendly ships? Not typically. Honestly - because it is more ubiquitous that water, I can't even recall the last time a side was at a distinct disadvantage due to lack/inadequate interdiction... And just to expound upon the difference - I'm not sure if you actually picked up on it, but Kesrith assumed the Frankian FTLi was blanketing the system almost instantaneously, which is why their probes moved so swiftly to avoid it.

"No, what is an invitation for us to insert our own version of physics.exe was the part where Frank barged onto our lawn guns blazing without warning."

No. You only believe what you are requesting here is reasonable because there are still similarities between your two sets of lore. But if, say, I had joined this thread with a hard sci-fi nation built on a moon colony, and then demanded for all of the soft sci-fi tech the Franks have to no longer work, it would be equally as unreasonable.

"If what was desired was a roflstomp of weak NPC's and/or smol primitives then it shouldn't have been posted as an open thread."

I have already refuted this, but I will refute it again for good measure. Nowhere did I imply the Franks should be granted an automatic (or even easy) win. Please do not repeat this claim again as it is untrue.

[Menelmacar]

No, what is an invitation for us to insert our own version of physics.exe was the part where Frank barged onto our lawn guns blazing without warning. Had he given any one of us a poke in advance I, and everyone else on the defense here, would have been pleased to work with him to create a story where everyone has fun (in fact, we are doing this nonetheless by responding to this thread at all, it sat for four days without gaining interest from literally anyone else). The lawn is ours; Frank is the radical departure from canon, and he will have to play by our rules.

Other OP's don't get expected to play this game because they aren't OOCly unexpected attacks on our capitals and/or state their rules and premises up front. If what was desired was a roflstomp of weak NPC's and/or smol primitives then it shouldn't have been posted as an open thread.

Also, a pony has offered you a crumpet. Eat the crumpet, it's delicious.

Four days, and I was not made aware... No dms, nothing.

Your canon, not mine, but you should have known based one of your members interacting with my people. I had open threads in the past, with legit burning and pillaging in the MWG, and not a single peep was heard.

There's half a trillion stars in the Cloak of Varda, there's lots of room for you to burn and pillage to your little heart's content without stepping on anyone's toes, and indeed, being entirely below the notice of MWG powers. You brought the burning and pillaging to Sol, so now you're stepping on a lot of toes. You will notice, by the way, that that said member, familiar with both, does not ICly seem to think very highly of the Frankians' chances.

If ftl weapons had been utilized from the get-go,Sol and the fleets around it would be wiped out. The gods are dead silent, unless you legit bring one into the thread to fight a battle that should be left to mortals.

No, if you'd led with FTL system-killing weapons you'd have been hard ignored, and that would have been the end of the RP, and we would not be having this discussion.

Are you in the same portion of the Cosmos at the same time at the same moment? I can legit name others who have had claims within Sol, and have rped such. Their Sol is likely far, far differsnt than yours. Kesrith can perhaps enlighten you on that subject.

Well, you didn't specify which fractal Sol you were attacking. It's an open thread. Nobody else responded to it until we did, Kesrith included. If you wanted someone from your sandbox to be the sole defenders here then you could have arranged that by any number of ways. You could have made it a closed thread. You could have planned it with Kesrith and others accordingly. You could have tagged it [ATTN: KESRITH]. You could have set rules in the OP. You didn't do any of these things and here we are.

As for tech level, this should be known based on one of your members involving themselves in my lore/wars before. Ftl-i has been utilized by many of the Realms involved in this thread since time immemorial. If you invite others outside your canon into someone else's you're going to have a bad day.

You stepped into our canon, and you invited us into yours by attacking Sol in an open thread. You're on our lawn firing off guns at the house. Now, maybe you meant to shoot up a different house, and you got the wrong address, and besides this house looks a lot like the other house from a distance, but you are nonetheless here. If you want to ignore the lot of us or just completely ghost the thread you can do that. If you want to try this again, once more with feeling, and start a new thread specifically closed to anyone who isn't in the sandbox of people who are familiar with what you're about, you can do that too. Or you can RP - your character explicitly barged in without knowing what she was going to face, and the battle plan has not survived enemy contact. Nice parallel to the OOC, there. Maybe the Great Realm taking a few black eyes for its hubris might be interesting, or maybe not. That's up to you.

The vessels alone are meant to besiege Sol, or bring its garrison to battle in the Void. If it was meant to be a ROTL stop, you would be facing the Praesental Fleet. Sol is not taken seriously by Gerwanna, you are interacting with an outlying province that sees it as a good place to hone their skills.

Leaving aside that the idea of 'besieging' a star system is absurd, especially with only twelve thousand ships - space is really big - this is fine. Of course, I will point out two things - one (1), all of us have assets outside Sol as well - generally the vast majority of said assets even - so breaking a siege even if one could be laid would be a trivial endeavor. And, two (2), Jovanna doesn't seem to have come in looking to test her skills - she seems to have expected a foregone conclusion. That's fine too. Not every commander is a genius.

Tech arguments kill threads and undo the momentum. A battle thread is best settled on the actual field of battle, not attempting to analyze gods of weaponry long established.

That's fine. Go ahead and RP. So far nobody's actually tried to no-sell anything that you've done.

[Macisikan]

@Royal Frankia: If you decide to RP a conversation (like what's happening on the C'tan ship) I'd suggest you hop on Discord and have it there in-character, then copy/paste/edit the result into a post for the thread. You get a much more natural conversational flow and much better dialogue than the traditional NS-Post of giant slab of text followed by another giant slab of text, or its much uglier cousin of a hundred two-line posts as the participants have a discussion. The outcome is a much better post and much more pleasant reading for all concerned, plus it reads like real people talking - which is what it's meant to be.

---

Regarding what Menelmacar said...

You stepped into our canon, and you invited us into yours by attacking Sol in an open thread. You're on our lawn firing off guns at the house. Now, maybe you meant to shoot up a different house, and you got the wrong address, and besides this house looks a lot like the other house from a distance, but you are nonetheless here. If you want to ignore the lot of us or just completely ghost the thread you can do that. If you want to try this again, once more with feeling, and start a new thread specifically closed to anyone who isn't in the sandbox of people who are familiar with what you're about, you can do that too. Or you can RP - your character explicitly barged in without knowing what she was going to face, and the battle plan has not survived enemy contact. Nice parallel to the OOC, there. Maybe the Great Realm taking a few black eyes for its hubris might be interesting, or maybe not. That's up to you.

This is entirely correct.

If you want to do this differently, you can call this RP ended right now - as OP, that's your right - and write it off as a learning experience. None of us will hold it against you; we've all made mistakes. Then you can try again with the people you want to RP with, in the way you want to RP it, and without any of us. But if you want to press on with the open thread... well, thing is that open threads where an area is being invaded is rather like walking into a bar and shouting "fight me scrubs" - most nations that do that wind up scrabbling in the gutter for what's left of their teeth. Again, if you don't want that outcome, that's not a problem; but you have to work with your RP partners to tell a different story.

You're not going to get a siege of Sol though. Not unless your opponent is completely confined to the system.

[Sunset]

No, what is an invitation for us to insert our own version of physics.exe was the part where Frank barged onto our lawn guns blazing without warning. Had he given any one of us a poke in advance I, and everyone else on the defense here, would have been pleased to work with him to create a story where everyone has fun (in fact, we are doing this nonetheless by responding to this thread at all, it sat for four days without gaining interest from literally anyone else). The lawn is ours; Frank is the radical departure from canon, and he will have to play by our rules.

It should also be noted that your 'rebuttal' - Frankia - would seem to assume that we are somehow all-knowing and all-seeing. If you yourself are constantly checking the forums for any mentions of 'Sol', 'Mars', 'Jupiter', 'Saturn', etc, etc, then color me impressed. I simply do not have that much free time.

Other OP's don't get expected to play this game because they aren't OOCly unexpected attacks on our capitals and/or state their rules and premises up front. If what was desired was a roflstomp of weak NPC's and/or smol primitives then it shouldn't have been posted as an open thread.

And to continue the point; By posting an open thread you are implicitly agreeing that the canons introduced can differ from your own. And by not setting any rules - and here I have some sympathy, as many people see a long list of rules and go 'fuck that noise' - and then in your opening post declaring that you are opening fire on various ill-defined 'somethings', you have essentially agreed that anyone can react to those actions in a manner of their choosing - FT-Open, no stated rules. As has now been stated several times; you have stepped onto a random lawn and opened fire on their house. You now bear the responsibility of those actions. This does not mean they (nor you) should be handed an automatic victory but as this is a mutual consensual roleplaying environment each player may decide in turn how the stated actions of another affect them or do not.

Also, a pony has offered you a crumpet. Eat the crumpet, it's delicious.

Agreed. You should take the offer of the crumpet. It is delicious.

Four days, and I was not made aware... No dms, nothing.

No DMs were required; It is long-standing board etiquette that [Open] tagged threads are completely open and do not require any notification other than a post in said thread. Any notifications, DMs, etc, are a courtesy.

Your canon, not mine, but you should have known based one of your members interacting with my people. I had open threads in the past, with legit burning and pillaging in the MWG, and not a single peep was heard.

Once again, this assumes we have all of the time in the world to keep track of both all currently open threads as well as read through all previous threads. I do not. This thread just happened to come up on our radar. Though it should be noted that we have now done a reasonable survey of your posting history, interactions, conflicts - both IC and OOC - and are continuing to gather more data as this is being written.

If ftl weapons had been utilized from the get-go,Sol and the fleets around it would be wiped out. The gods are dead silent, unless you legit bring one into the thread to fight a battle that should be left to mortals.

This is... laughable. Do I get to laugh? Yes I do. I have a multitude of systems in place to deal with FTL weapons and would have invited you to 'bring it' and then 'asked for seconds'. I will note that the tone of this reply is... argumentative, as it seems to me that it assumes superiority. If we do not want this to end in a mass deletion of posts, I would suggest that everyone do their best to keep their ego in check.

The vessels alone are meant to besiege Sol, or bring its garrison to battle in the Void. If it was meant to be a ROTL stop, you would be facing the Praesental Fleet. Sol is not taken seriously by Gerwanna, you are interacting with an outlying province that sees it as a good place to hone their skills.

To be honest? Then they should turn around and go home, lesson learned. Because they have already (hopefully) learned a very important lesson that is taught in all gun safety classes ever; don't aim at anything you don't want to destroy, and make sure of your backstop before you even put your finger on the trigger. These people would have been ejected from any gun range - or even basic military training - for violating said rule. Or be put on notice.

Actually, that would make a really good post. Their over-commander whoever shows up and gives them a public dressing down for being stupid. And puts them on KP. Or worse... Appoints them as diplomats to the 'barbarians' they just offended. That would be... Well, it would be funny. And it would show that Royal Frankia is not all possessed of very little in the way of battlefield acumen...

Tech arguments kill threads and undo the momentum. A battle thread is best settled on the actual field of battle, not attempting to analyze gods of weaponry long established.

'Gods of weaponry long established'? That is a very odd turn of phrase if indeed it is. I'm going to ask you to rephrase that whole sentence.

Anyway. I'm fair certain I've seen your name pop up on Discord at some point. I would suggest you and yours '@' us on some suitable forum and we can hash this out. Set some goals, toss around some banter, etc.

[Royal Frankia]

1)IC, that member has had little interaction with the Great Folk, and it was against a Coalition that boasted vast resources/ a grievous betrayal that brought the Realm to its Götterdämmerung. That was several decades ago, IC, and I doubt any Fleet within your Coalition can hold a feather in the cap to the VRZ. After all, your member in the past fell victim to that force, and did not face it under the same circumstances with a Coalition to boot arrayed against it.

2)It was not likely Kesrith would respond, and the thread would have died without the sudden dogpile. As soon as you did, you acknowledged that an interdiction field was around Sol within this thread. That it acted in a certain fashion, under what I have established before. I have open threads in the Milky Way that were open and operated under an established premise.

3)I rarely use discord, and it would best to resolve this here where I am active.

4) "specify which fractal Sol"
And then there is the presence of the Kesrith, who are you just finding out. The Great Realm knows of a Mri presence in Sol, but was not sure if that power had fallen dormant once more.

5) "Maybe the Great Realm taking a few black eyes for its hubris might be interesting, or maybe not. That's up to you."
Black eyes are acceptable, what is not acceptable is claiming that my tech operates in a certain fashion when it doesn't... Or misreading what I have described in the threat. Like, the Vani are just projections, they are not physical beings. Vani are servants of the One, and if they had been brought to the Void only the gods might have a chance against them.

6) Vra Isocretta comes from a culture that condemns curbstomping weak opponents, which is why she has been restrained so far. She has brought twelve thousand craft, not an Armada. She is likely outnumbered a thousand times over, but she will still fight and do as much damage as she can.

Where else to win laurels than Sol, where realms have congregated based on observations that go back thousands of cycles/being acquainted with multiple realities to the point where it is almost a universal. Punitive measures are necessary, but not anything to record in the Annals.

7) I would have conformed with that op's thread based on that op's precedent/wishes, if it were hard science. Equations ignore actual battle, which is a different animal. Not everyone is Waffen SS fanatical or sus, only battle in the eyes of the Folk determined the nature of the man. How much can he bear before he breaks? Can he be merciful, even to those that have slaughtered his kinsmen upon the Void? Can he be a true Atkanite?


*or

Typo, referring to an incident where a hard tech nation analyzed gods in a god thread... Which obviously misses the point of a god thread.

Are you claiming that your nations stand a snowball's chance in Hades against the VRZ?

[Higher Intelligence]

@Sunset -

"And to continue the point; By posting an open thread you are implicitly agreeing that the canons introduced can differ from your own. [...] This does not mean they (nor you) should be handed an automatic victory but as this is a mutual consensual roleplaying environment each player may decide in turn how the stated actions of another affect them or do not."

Just to be clear, my point of contention here was the dictating of how Frankian technology was expected to interact with itself. It was not an observation on how it interacts with technology being used by the defenders - in fact, it's reasonable and even expected that individuals decide for themselves how their own systems interact with the actions another is taking. This is, however, different from telling someone how their technology should work internally.

[Menelmacar]

8)Are you claiming that your nations stand a snowball's chance in Hades against the VRZ?

I'm saying most of us wouldn't even notice we'd crushed the VRZ. Give the Arkasians another five to ten IC years and they might not notice either.

[Sunset]

@Sunset -

"And to continue the point; By posting an open thread you are implicitly agreeing that the canons introduced can differ from your own. [...] This does not mean they (nor you) should be handed an automatic victory but as this is a mutual consensual roleplaying environment each player may decide in turn how the stated actions of another affect them or do not."

Just to be clear, my point of contention here was the dictating of how Frankian technology was expected to interact with itself. It was not an observation on how it interacts with technology being used by the defenders - in fact, it's reasonable and even expected that individuals decide for themselves how their own systems interact with the actions another is taking. This is, however, different from telling someone how their technology should work internally.

I understand and appreciate your point of contention. Short reply, I know, but I believe the statement has been made that there is no desire to get into a long discussion on the 'hows' and 'whys' of a particular bit of kit.

[Menelmacar]

@Frankia: Just a few questions for you, if I may.

1. How could weapons be fired against someone who isn't there? They were already gone, again.

2. How could the field hit any of the black fleets when those black fleets were heading the other way, and already out of that range before the field extended?

3. How did the mines manage to race towards ships that were already gone?

[Macisikan]

I'm gonna have to second Menel here, RF. Read his post again, because the blackships aren't there to be fired upon, they didn't go through the field and were already out before the field was extended, and so there's nothing to be raced towards or fired upon other than the ballistic cloud of mine clearing missiles. You can take out the missiles no worries, but the things that spat them at you are long gone.

[Royal Frankia]

@Frankia: Just a few questions for you, if I may.

1. How could weapons be fired against someone who isn't there? They were already gone, again.

2. How could the field hit any of the black fleets when those black fleets were heading the other way, and already out of that range before the field extended?

3. How did the mines manage to race towards ships that were already gone?

1.Interdiction expands rapidly and immediately. It would trap them, if they were in the process of jumping, it was too late. If they were unleashing ordinance, they within range of the bolts. Arkasia would know of this, as our circle have utilized forever. It actually allows you to fight prolonged space battles given what ftl combat entails in regards to ordinance and capabilities. Battles last days, weeks, months, years, depending upon interdiction/how far it is out.

2. They were in a trap, and even if they were going the other way it was far too late. They were stuck if they were offloading, or jumping all of a sudden. Same goes with weaponry going ftl in an interdiction field.

3. They were racing towards whatever remnant that wasn't destroyed by the Bolts of the Atkana.

[Menelmacar]

@Frankia: Just a few questions for you, if I may.

1. How could weapons be fired against someone who isn't there? They were already gone, again.

2. How could the field hit any of the black fleets when those black fleets were heading the other way, and already out of that range before the field extended?

3. How did the mines manage to race towards ships that were already gone?

1.Interdiction expands rapidly and immediately. It would trap them, if they were in the process of jumping, it was too late. If they were unleashing ordinance, they within range of the bolts. Arkasia would know of this, as our circle have utilized forever. It actually allows you to fight prolonged space battles given what ftl combat entails in regards to ordinance and capabilities. Battles last days, weeks, months, years, depending upon interdiction/how far it is out.

2. They were in a trap, and even if they were going the other way it was far too late. They were stuck if they were offloading, or jumping all of a sudden. Same goes with weaponry going ftl in an interdiction field.

3. They were racing towards whatever remnant that wasn't destroyed by the Bolts of the Atkana.

How could it possibly be a trap if they weren't anticipated? You don't know they're there until they're already doing their thing, and doing their thing took less time than it took for you to read this sentence. In the time it took someone's fat meat hand to slap a control, they're gone.

Also, inverse square law, again. You're trying to exert your will on literally a cubic light-year, and not even projected locally but from the center of the system. Any of these ships only has to move their wee little lonesome, and they have big chunky reactors. In a local context, guess who wins?

As to offloading, it took no time at all. The missiles were already outboard in a cloud rather than having to actually launch them from internal racks on arrival.

Anyway, you did kill the second wave. Congratulations.

[The Ctan]

Four days, and I was not made aware... No dms, nothing.

Your canon, not mine, but you should have known based one of your members interacting with my people. I had open threads in the past, with legit burning and pillaging in the MWG, and not a single peep was heard.

I for one usually respond to those kind of threads when someone actually asks for help against whatever conqueror of the week is hitting them, not just if the conquerer is tooling around hitting NPCs.

In the past you've started threads bombastically saying the Franks are off to conquer somewhere, unspecified and I have noticed those, but as no one much seems to fancy being conquered or needing help, I don't reply.

I for one don't generally go after everyone on NS who smacks some NPCs - just like you did in Subjugation in Sol in fact - there's not much point as the creator will lose interest in RPing about them after they're rescued, so that's why you've not seen me before; notably I had my eye on the thread I linked above early this year but it died.

If ftl weapons had been utilized from the get-go,Sol and the fleets around it would be wiped out. The gods are dead silent, unless you legit bring one into the thread to fight a battle that should be left to mortals.

Are you in the same portion of the Cosmos at the same time at the same moment? I can legit name others who have had claims within Sol, and have rped such. Their Sol is likely far, far differsnt than yours. Kesrith can perhaps enlighten you on that subject.

We're aware, naturally you can repost going to conquer their Sols, if you want, or they can jump in here and take their licks from your shots and we'll deal, otherwise it's our one that's getting hit!

As for tech level, this should be known based on one of your members involving themselves in my lore/wars before. Ftl-i has been utilized by many of the Realms involved in this thread since time immemorial. If you invite others outside your canon into someone else's you're going to have a bad day.

The vessels alone are meant to besiege Sol, or bring its garrison to battle in the Void. If it was meant to be a ROTL stop, you would be facing the Praesental Fleet. Sol is not taken seriously by Gerwanna, you are interacting with an outlying province that sees it as a good place to hone their skills.

Their intentions don't really matter. If Germany sailed a frigate up the Chesepeake firing wildly at the American capital, they would soon find themselves in a war that would involve everything they had, as indeed you have now that you've posted calling on this Praesental Fleet.

Tech arguments kill threads and undo the momentum. A battle thread is best settled on the actual field of battle, not attempting to analyze gods of weaponry long established.

This is true, but on the other hand, asking for things to take time, wanting to know where in the Sol System things are, etc. is hardly unreasonable, it makes a lot of difference if you reach Ceres (Menelmacar) or Jupiter (Everyone) first.

1)IC, that member has had little interaction with the Great Folk, and it was against a Coalition that boasted vast resources/ a grievous betrayal that brought the Realm to its Götterdämmerung. That was several decades ago, IC, and I doubt any Fleet within your Coalition can hold a feather in the cap to the VRZ. After all, your member in the past fell victim to that force, and did not face it under the same circumstances with a Coalition to boot arrayed against it.

And the GRA had been long established as essentially the weakest nation in Sol, after talking to us.

2)It was not likely Kesrith would respond, and the thread would have died without the sudden dogpile. As soon as you did, you acknowledged that an interdiction field was around Sol within this thread. That it acted in a certain fashion, under what I have established before. I have open threads in the Milky Way that were open and operated under an established premise.

I also posted that my own flipped on the second you were here. It blankets the full area around your fleet and it also jams you. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

3)I rarely use discord, and it would best to resolve this here where I am active.

4) "specify which fractal Sol"
And then there is the presence of the Kesrith, who are you just finding out. The Great Realm knows of a Mri presence in Sol, but was not sure if that power had fallen dormant once more.

5) "Maybe the Great Realm taking a few black eyes for its hubris might be interesting, or maybe not. That's up to you."
Black eyes are acceptable, what is not acceptable is claiming that my tech operates in a certain fashion when it doesn't... Or misreading what I have described in the threat. Like, the Vani are just projections, they are not physical beings. Vani are servants of the One, and if they had been brought to the Void only the gods might have a chance against them.

I was very much confused what was meant to be special about them, the main point you gave was that their helms flash! You'll notice my post in response to them does hedge its bets, with "otherwise use their [the Vani's] own means to bypass the doors or walls or decks or floors" and talk about all manner of magic/psi/gods being deeply attenuated on board the Synergy Clubhouse. You can presume by the time they find the feast hall that they're going to be very ghostly indeed due to the dampening of all magic/gods/angels/etc, which is what you seem to be going for, unless they're hard light or whatnot (obviously not a no-no as the shipmind has used a similar projection), I leave that for you to narrate, but that is still plenty interesting as a starting point to reply. We should have the dialogue, it'll be fun.

6) Vra Isocretta comes from a culture that condemns curbstomping weak opponents, which is why she has been restrained so far. She has brought twelve thousand craft, not an Armada. She is likely outnumbered a thousand times over, but she will still fight and do as much damage as she can.

Where else to win laurels than Sol, where realms have congregated based on observations that go back thousands of cycles/being acquainted with multiple realities to the point where it is almost a universal. Punitive measures are necessary, but not anything to record in the Annals.

A clash of cultures can be interesting! She may think she's engaged in a ritual 'flowery war' to go and heckle up the natives, but now Sanar's being attacked because the natives have absolutely zero chill about these kind of things and won't play by her rules. That's neat. We should run with it.

7) I would have conformed with that op's thread based on that op's precedent/wishes, if it were hard science. Equations ignore actual battle, which is a different animal. Not everyone is Waffen SS fanatical or sus, only battle in the eyes of the Folk determined the nature of the man. How much can he bear before he breaks? Can he be merciful, even to those that have slaughtered his kinsmen upon the Void? Can he be a true Atkanite?

It should tell the Folk a lot that the people they've sent a gunboat to menace just started shooting things into their home system in NS-1 as a response. You might even think that they respect that kind of thing, if they are warriors who prize battle, as they seem to be!

*or

Typo, referring to an incident where a hard tech nation analyzed gods in a god thread... Which obviously misses the point of a god thread.

8 )Are you claiming that your nations stand a snowball's chance in Hades against the VRZ?

Honestly? No idea. I've read your posts in the past but not his, and I'm told that's Pord, but I've never read his posts so all I know are the memes about them being hunter gatherers in space that fly around in ships with glaciers on them so they can hunt, which is... honestly kinda cute. I suspect there would be a fight, though, which is what we're posting here too.

1.Interdiction expands rapidly and immediately. It would trap them, if they were in the process of jumping, it was too late. If they were unleashing ordinance, they within range of the bolts. Arkasia would know of this, as our circle have utilized forever. It actually allows you to fight prolonged space battles given what ftl combat entails in regards to ordinance and capabilities. Battles last days, weeks, months, years, depending upon interdiction/how far it is out.

Said when posting an attack on an FTLi defended system being swatted instantly, and after objecting to the idea that communications between uncoordinated fleets would necessarily take time within Sol. I need a headscratch smilie.

2. They were in a trap, and even if they were going the other way it was far too late. They were stuck if they were offloading, or jumping all of a sudden. Same goes with weaponry going ftl in an interdiction field.

3. They were racing towards whatever remnant that wasn't destroyed by the Bolts of the Atkana.

So, given that part of the point of the posts attacking Sanar is to determine the limits of its defensive technologies, i.e. this is what they call Reconnaissance by Fire - i.e. these attacks are preparatory to other work - now we've seen it expand, what's the maximum extent of Sanar's FTLi shell. This is information we would now know - remember my ships dropped probes, then Menel and Kajal fired into Sanar - What kind of FTL weapons exist around the system and where are they fired from?

[The Ctan]

I actually like a lot about that post Royal Frankia, but I really don't have anything to reply to there. Can you do a reply for the Vani on/in Synergy Clubhouse?

Also we can't really progess actually defending Sol unless we know where in Sol you are; the map's up-thread, if you want to let us know where you'd like to be, otherwise are you OK with me placing you wherever?

Likewise as above what are the limits on the defences at Sanar?

[Royal Frankia]

Yeah, I've been busy. The projections would be directed away from the ship in question. Only shells and slugs would be Hitting the craft.

Will look at the map after class.

A lightyear around the Makkan District, 2 light-years at Max. Given sublight travel, it might take awhile for a fleet to come towards the first minefield.

[The Ctan]

No worries.

[Sunset]

@Nuxipal:

Referencing your current post;

Denizens of Sol,

The worlds known as Mars and Venus are under the protection of the Mri Empire and any damage to the planets themselves will be seen as a threat to the integrity of our mandate to defend these worlds during this conflict. Any attempt to impede our fleets will be met with overwhelming force. Already our scouting forces are within your midst and more than capable of dealing with many of your defenses. Do not fire upon us or attempt to fly into our formations and you will be safe from harm.

Can you offer some clarification here? Are you/the Mri claiming the worlds of Mars & Venus or are you stating that they will be protected from outside aggression? Or something different entirely? It should be noted - strenuously - that since (as you have yourself note in an oblique fashion) there are many 'Sols', so too are there many Venus & Mars. In fact, in this very thread I've already seen two *other* references to Mars by nations that have not previously had any contact with myself up until this point. This puts us into something of a fractal situation with multiple possible interactions and thus multiple possible iterations of these planets existing at the same time. Possibly in the same space.

(I'm 45 and thus claim the title of oldest until someone brave steps forward to relieve me of it)

My concern would be then multi-fold. To which Mars are you referring? Are you claiming to simply be standing in defense of Mars? Or are you claiming dominion over it? Perhaps... Anyway. Please, clarify. Then, depending, I suppose we'll want some in-character clarification. But I would strongly suggest that you remove the section of your post declaring that you will shoot at random civilians. Pretty much everywhere that's an immediate cause for war and it would seem silly for those who claim to be 'defending' Mars or Venus to start by shooting people who were born there.

[Macisikan]

Edit: Nevermind. You're not invading our Sol, the questions are irrelevant. As per C'tan's post, we're done here.

[Nuxipal]

I have just been informed: We have an OOC page for this now. Well then...

So: No, we aren't claiming THIS Venus and Mars. We do have our own. Our original Venus and Mars were kind of fused together after a bit of planet Frankenstein's Monster and currently sits as a mixed Capital Planet and Holy Site. Due to the nation's primary deity's mortal form dying on Mars and giving it the name of Nika instead. Since then, protecting the components of Nika in other Universes has just been a thing. Considering at some point most of our old RP group moved to NS and then no where else, NS became the "Nexus" point of the Multiverse. So its Venusian and Martian components of Nika are a little more sacred than the others aside from the original.

Think of it like the christian holy relics that kept popping up in the middle ages. Was that really a thumb bone of Saint Peter, or did some guy just need to pay off some debts to a church?

Sadly, I will not be relieving you of that title. I may be getting older, but I started playing this nation when I was about 18 and that was nearly 15 years ago now.

Final bits: Holiest Mars is not this Mars, but this Mars is considered holy. We are not claiming it, we are claiming to be required to defend it. The parts about shooting anything that comes close to the fleet is a defensive operation at that point. There probably won't be the need for that, unless its a derelict vessel or defunct satellite that has long since stopped responding as most, if not all, civilian ships will move out of the way of an oncoming military force. Sort of makes sense there. Last bit of answer before I go on a tangent here: the fleet is specific to defending the planets themselves, not particularly the people on or from those worlds. Its the form of the planet itself. Especially with Mars as its the Martian surface and the Venusian Core that are the important bits.

If communications could go through the FTLi of your nations then it'd be easier to transmit that information. However, and this is where my old cranky man part comes in, all the "newer" nations seemed to be FTLi obsessed and went so far as to say communications aren't exempt and then started saying they could make paths through their own FTLi for their ships to traverse faster for reinforcement. It became a whole thing. Miss the days when I didn't have to specify that, no you can't use FTL weapons here, that's silly and quite a mood killer.

@Nuxipal: I have a couple of questions.

First, do you think we're like post-modern-tech Earth-based nations?

Second, are you claiming Mars and/or Venus? Because people live there.

Third, are you really sure you want to be firing on the assets that are defending the homes of the people who live in the system?

1. No, I am aware you are all mostly FT/FFT nations here. In character, the Mri are used to dealing with mostly PMT/Early-FT nations on earth over the last ~500 years of RP time. Finding an advanced earth is a rarity for them.

2. Not claiming as territory, claiming a right to defend worlds they view as holy.

3. They are currently moving closer to the worlds, but as they are off the solar plane and now beyond the Oort Cloud and many of the areas due for mining, there shouldn't be much in the way from this point forward. In the outer portions of the system they would have only fired on vessels which moved towards them aggressively, aimed to get within the formation of the fleet, or drifted in that direction. So: Pirates, defunct stations/satellites/ships, and hostile craft actually attempting to shoot them after being warned to keep away. Normal, average civilians would see a fleet of tens of thousands and move out of the way. Especially when the core of that fleet is an enormous ship that makes some planets look small.