What if America lost the War Of Independence

[New Zoigai]

I was wondering? What if America lost the Independence War?

What I think


Argue with me or not, America is technically still British.

No it isnt.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

The current state of North Korea is also a result of the Korean War and (largely because of) the same intervention that created South Korea. Without the intervention Korea would most likely be one country, and while there's no telling what ecactly it would look like it probably wouldn't be whatever the hell North Korea is now.

i imagine it'd be like vietnam today, honestly. at the farthest, maybe more like cuba, but it certainly wouldn't be the fascist dystopia it is today.

If it remained under the Kims, yes it would've.

[HISPIDA]

i imagine it'd be like vietnam today, honestly. at the farthest, maybe more like cuba, but it certainly wouldn't be the fascist dystopia it is today.

If it remained under the Kims, yes it would've.

definitely not. the modern culture of north korea is largely due to decades of constant isolation from the world due to being surrounded by hostile powers (yes, this includes china and russia), the subsequent siege mentality, the august faction incident, and constant antagonism from the west (which isn't entirely unwarranted tbh) --- ideology doesn't develop in a vacuum! it's not like the moment kim il-sung was made leader he wanted to implement juche everywhere; far from it.

[Platoon of Peace]

Plus the US isn't even responsible for the Korean War...

That's irrelevant. The US still got involved, committed atrocities, and largely contributed to the state of the peninsula.

We should not have been in Vietnam, but Korea is a different animal.

South Korea really wasn't any better than the north then.

For the 1st point, would your rather Korea be completely a dictatorship or half of one?

for the 2nd point, the difference then was north was communist, and south wasn't. Which only really applies context, and not complete justification. And also, will we pretend that the Soviets/China didn't do the same thing?

[Dimetrodon Empire]

If it remained under the Kims, yes it would've.

definitely not. the modern culture of north korea is largely due to decades of constant isolation from the world due to being surrounded by hostile powers (yes, this includes china and russia), the subsequent siege mentality, the august faction incident, and constant antagonism from the west (which isn't entirely unwarranted tbh) --- ideology doesn't develop in a vacuum! it's not like the moment kim il-sung was made leader he wanted to implement juche everywhere; far from it.

They isolated the country to build a cult of personality around themselves.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

For the 1st point, would your rather Korea be completely a dictatorship or half of one.

There's a certain rabbit hole that far too many leftists go down where they believe anybody anti-U.S. is an innocent victim and are good. I think that is what we're seeing.

[HISPIDA]

definitely not. the modern culture of north korea is largely due to decades of constant isolation from the world due to being surrounded by hostile powers (yes, this includes china and russia), the subsequent siege mentality, the august faction incident, and constant antagonism from the west (which isn't entirely unwarranted tbh) --- ideology doesn't develop in a vacuum! it's not like the moment kim il-sung was made leader he wanted to implement juche everywhere; far from it.

They isolated the country to build a cult of personality around themselves.

this shows a complete misunderstanding of the history of north korea (and looks at, like, a fourth of my post)

[Dimetrodon Empire]

They isolated the country to build a cult of personality around themselves.

this shows a complete misunderstanding of the history of north korea (and looks at, like, a fourth of my post)

No, I'm not. I think you are. North Korea isn't even ideological. Juche is literally just an "ideology" (if you can even call it that) that promotes the absolute rule of the Kims alongside a cult of personality. A cult of personality that started pretty early in the country's history.

The west/other powers have been hostile to other nations and none of them ended up like North Korea. We unjustly embargoed Cuba and invaded them, and they certainly did not end up like North korea. There's no country like it, and that is due to the family ruling it.

[New Zoigai]

Question: "What if America lost the War Of Independence"

Current discussion: North Korea and other Dictatorships.


Does this mean that you guys think America would eventually win a different independence war then become a dictatorship like nations to its south?

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Question: "What if America lost the War Of Independence"

Current discussion: North Korea and other Dictatorships

Welcome to NSG.

Honestly, an America losing the war of independence would be a parliamentary commonwealth realm. Even though many of the would-be founders would be executed, I still think they would be symbols of some sort of American identity.

Honestly, just a different government structure.

[New Zoigai]

Question: "What if America lost the War Of Independence"

Current discussion: North Korea and other Dictatorships

Welcome to NSG.

Honestly, an America losing the war of independence would be a parliamentary commonwealth realm. Even though many of the would-be founders would be executed, I still think they would be symbols of some sort of American identity.

Honestly, just a different government structure.

Ive been here before, Im just still amazed how shallow these questions can be, and how easy it is to make turn them into something more interesting

[Athretvari]

Richard Dreyfuss (yep, the actor) and Harry Turledove (alt-history author) co-wrote a book in 1996 centered on this idea called “The Two Georges.” Takes place long after the fact but has lots of details of the background history. Interesting read.

[Alcala-Cordel]

The current state of North Korea is also a result of the Korean War and (largely because of) the same intervention that created South Korea. Without the intervention Korea would most likely be one country, and while there's no telling what ecactly it would look like it probably wouldn't be whatever the hell North Korea is now.

The Norks started that war. They're not innocent victims whom are only suffering due to the evil U.S., and if it reunified under the Kims, yes it would look exactly like it does now, only with the whole peninsula being like that.

Doesn't matter who started it. The Kims consolidated power due to the instability caused largely by US bombing.

That's irrelevant. The US still got involved, committed atrocities, and largely contributed to the state of the peninsula.

South Korea really wasn't any better than the north then.

For the 1st point, would your rather Korea be completely a dictatorship or half of one?

for the 2nd point, the difference then was north was communist, and south wasn't. Which only really applies context, and not complete justification. And also, will we pretend that the Soviets/China didn't do the same thing?

For the first point, as mentioned earlier, South Korea was a dictatorship at the time as well. Who's to say what type of government a unified Korea would have?

For the second, China might have extended its influence into Korea but less people would have died and North Korea wouldn't be North Korea.

[Vestra-Sverige]

the world would have ended by now without america's guidance

It wouldn't probably, there are a lot of other nations that are strong. If the U.S. wouldn't be a thing until Post-WWII the world could be a better world.