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Privacy implications of self-driving cars?

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West Bromwich Holme
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Privacy implications of self-driving cars?

Postby West Bromwich Holme » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:08 am

Although a lot of the media, more particularly the blogosphere, talks about the benefits of self-driving cars and hypes it like cryptocurrency is still being now, or the dot-com boom of the early 2000s, they also talk about the winners and losers in hypothetical scenarios where self-driving cars exist, such as police, car dealers etc.

But I'm going to turn the spotlight on an issue that's not as often discussed; privacy.

People think Big Tech is a hot button issue. Justifiably so, what with the Cambridge Analytica scandal, Russian involvement in the 2016 U.S. elections, self-harm etc. but for self-driving cars, it goes beyond the "we collect customer data" role.

With your traditional human-driven car, little data was collected, at least in the past anyway; it was a case of buy it in the showroom, pay for it in cash or via finance, lease it etc. but with car-sharing and subscription in the picture, it's a lot more different.

Does anyone think that self-driving cars could become a privacy nightmare and more of a dystopia than utopia?

I'm not a fan of them, partially for privacy reasons (I can see ACLU having a field day with this), but also it being controversial towards automotive fandom, even those who own other vehicles than cars, motorcyclists etc.

I mean, who'd want a self-driving Ferrari or Lamborghini worth $500k? Probably no-one, as it'd go against the nature of the brand.

I can't see millionaires who enjoy sports cars liking the idea of self-driving cars.

Politicians already treat the motorist as their own punching bag and piggybank, the feared future of human drivers banned from the road, Elon Musk speculating it, inaccurate or too ahead of its time?

Do you think the privacy issues of self-driving cars are an overlooked issue and should be given greater prominence?
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Ayytaly
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Postby Ayytaly » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:27 am

Everything will be infused with technology at some point and as society becomes more comformist intrusive tech will be on demand.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:04 am

Yes, some folks are discussing mandatory remote kill switches for cars.

Its going to get worse, not better

As an FYI your location info is provided by your cellphone now. They don't need the car to do that.
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Doofinshmirtz
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Postby Doofinshmirtz » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:10 am

Oh boy, I sure do love highly intrusive tech that is present everywhere in modern society! Nothing concerning about that!
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GuessTheAltAccount
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Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:13 am

"Self-driving cars" are an insane idea anyway. If people aren't responsible enough to drive without crashing their cars, they aren't responsible enough to design ones that won't crash. What's stopping casket manufacturers from bribing these companies to deliberately program the cars to crash?

Public transit is tried and true. All the incentives are aligned to make it safe, at least in towns that have their shit together like Copenhagen. And if your town is too small for transit, it should be small enough to allow for bicycling and walking. Otherwise your town's design is a middle finger to mother Earth herself.
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Ayytaly
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Postby Ayytaly » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:16 am

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:"Self-driving cars" are an insane idea anyway. If people aren't responsible enough to drive without crashing their cars, they aren't responsible enough to design ones that won't crash. What's stopping casket manufacturers from bribing these companies to deliberately program the cars to crash?

Public transit is tried and true. All the incentives are aligned to make it safe, at least in towns that have their shit together like Copenhagen. And if your town is too small for transit, it should be small enough to allow for bicycling and walking. Otherwise your town's design is a middle finger to mother Earth herself.


Ah, I see you are a fellow Adam Something viewer as well.
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LInUxvIllE
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Postby LInUxvIllE » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:20 am

Ayytaly wrote:Everything will be infused with technology at some point and as society becomes more comformist intrusive tech will be on demand.

And you're fine with that?
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:25 am

Ethel mermania wrote:As an FYI your location info is provided by your cellphone now. They don't need the car to do that.

This. I don't know what more your car would be able to snitch about, except maybe whether you're a middle-lane driver or don't use your indicators.
Last edited by Esternial on Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ayytaly
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Postby Ayytaly » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:31 am

Linuxville wrote:
Ayytaly wrote:Everything will be infused with technology at some point and as society becomes more comformist intrusive tech will be on demand.

And you're fine with that?


I am an individual, not society itself. And no, I don't like having execs know I'm in this forum.

Esternial wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As an FYI your location info is provided by your cellphone now. They don't need the car to do that.

This. I don't know what more your car would be able to snitch about, except maybe whether you're a middle-lane driver or don't use your indicators.


Your built-in GPS could be hacked.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:38 am

The privacy implications of self-driving cars are also shared by any use of GPS navigation, whether while driving a car or travelling by any other means. So not really a reason to not have self-driving cars.


GuessTheAltAccount wrote:"Self-driving cars" are an insane idea anyway. If people aren't responsible enough to drive without crashing their cars, they aren't responsible enough to design ones that won't crash.

Bizarre comment, as usual.
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:41 am

West Bromwich Holme wrote:Does anyone think that self-driving cars could become a privacy nightmare and more of a dystopia than utopia?

They’d already be plenty dystopian for other reasons, but mercifully we will never have to deal with them because no one can decide who should be liable when they inevitably have some fuckups and start maiming and killing people
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:51 am

Ayytaly wrote:
Esternial wrote:This. I don't know what more your car would be able to snitch about, except maybe whether you're a middle-lane driver or don't use your indicators.


Your built-in GPS could be hacked.

Probably already can. I don't exactly see any *new* privacy implications with self-driving cars that don't already exist with non-self driving cars that have internet connectivity for e.g. GPS or activating your seat warming subscription.
Last edited by Esternial on Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:33 pm

Esternial wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As an FYI your location info is provided by your cellphone now. They don't need the car to do that.

This. I don't know what more your car would be able to snitch about, except maybe whether you're a middle-lane driver or don't use your indicators.

Death to those who drive the speed limit in the left lane!!!
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:34 pm

Esternial wrote:
Ayytaly wrote:
Your built-in GPS could be hacked.

Probably already can. I don't exactly see any *new* privacy implications with self-driving cars that don't already exist with non-self driving cars that have internet connectivity for e.g. GPS or activating your seat warming subscription.


Kill switches.
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The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

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Postby Kalivyah » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:35 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Esternial wrote:Probably already can. I don't exactly see any *new* privacy implications with self-driving cars that don't already exist with non-self driving cars that have internet connectivity for e.g. GPS or activating your seat warming subscription.


Kill switches.

Why? What's wrong with them :(
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:37 pm

Kalivyah wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Kill switches.

Why? What's wrong with them :(

You are driving down the road, you want to let PD stop your car?
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The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
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The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:04 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Esternial wrote:Probably already can. I don't exactly see any *new* privacy implications with self-driving cars that don't already exist with non-self driving cars that have internet connectivity for e.g. GPS or activating your seat warming subscription.


Kill switches.

Probably already can.

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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:37 pm

not sure it will ever really be relevant, since 'self-driving cars' is one of those technologies that is always five years away and will probably die out as a fad before it ever reaches full maturity. Too difficult to engineer to a safe enough level, an insurer's worst nightmare and none of the so-called innovators in the field have the sorts of management cultures or investment philosophies to make the sort of decade-long plans necessary to get it done.

EDIT: it's also a painfully arch-modernist and overengineered solution in search of a problem. Do we really need millions of individual autonomous cars who are all bumping around and navigating around one another?
Last edited by Nilokeras on Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:38 pm

Esternial wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Kill switches.

Probably already can.


Its not mandated here yet, but there has been talk.

And apparently Tesla has them

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/tesl ... 48654.html
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
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The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

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Big Bad Blue
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Postby Big Bad Blue » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:15 pm

Privacy. How late 20th Century of you. :rofl:
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:41 am

Fuck self-driving cars and the horse they rode in on. Fuck them to the moon and back
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Postby Haganham » Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:40 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Esternial wrote:This. I don't know what more your car would be able to snitch about, except maybe whether you're a middle-lane driver or don't use your indicators.

Death to those who drive the speed limit in the left lane!!!

Stop putting exits on them then!
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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:49 am

You know they are already patenting dash board, and other in car, advertising technology. You will be trapped in a box unable to turn off the adverts for every fast food chain you approach, if certain companies get their way.

I expect cars will also be monitoring your health, breathing, heart rate that kind of thing, affecting your insurance premiums in real time. The insurers will also want to know the identities of all the passengers.

In the run up to fully autonomous vehicles, when people still insist on some control, your driving skills will be monitored, and again affect your insurance premiums.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:27 am

Big Bad Blue wrote:Privacy. How late 20th Century of you. :rofl:

You have no privacy, get over it.
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Postby Dogmeat » Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:21 am

GuessTheAltAccount wrote:What's stopping casket manufacturers from bribing these companies to deliberately program the cars to crash?

Of all the dumb reasons to oppose self-driving cars, this is by far the dumbest.

You realize there's nothing that stops them from doing that now, right? There's a million way car manufacturers could cause their cars to crash. They don't do it because it would be a stupid fucking thing to do.
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