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[On hold] Nationalization Of Land And Buildings

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Old Hope
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Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

[On hold] Nationalization Of Land And Buildings

Postby Old Hope » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:13 am

The World Assembly,
Aware of the competitive nature of most sapient beings,
Not wishing to nationalize everything in all WA member nations, an approach that does not work due to the competitive nature of most sapient beings,
Aware that state ownership of resources is usually not very efficient,
Noting that land and buildings are finite resources for a member state, that are, in market systems, inefficiently used, mostly based on money and history instead of need and efficiency, in a manner even less efficient than under state ownership,
Decrying the injustices of land and housing being speculated upon and reserved by the rich far in excess of what they need,
Convinced that markets are not the solution for land and building problems,


Enacts:
1.The ownership of land in all member states shall be seized to that member state with or without compensation according to clause 4,
2.The ownership of buildings in these member states shall be seized by that member state with or without compensation according to clause 4
3.Housing shall be given access to fairly, with disregard to the personal wealth of the people, and payments for a better house shall be prohibited,
4.The member state should pay or receive compensation according to the cost of a new building and the costs of repairing the current building, balanced by its usefulness for society; but:
5.People who have to pay compensation for assets being seized shall not have to pay more than reasonably affordable for them without causing undue hardships
6.After accounting for 5., if the compensation the state would have to pay exceeds the compensation it can pay without disrupting its other legal obligations, then it has to pay only the amount it can pay without disrupting its other legal obligations, by reducing the maximum amount paid for each person, but:
7. If the cap would be negative or 0(because the member state is already struggling with its other legal obligations, then the member state must seize the buildings it would otherwise have to pay compensation for without compensation.

Clarifies:
That older World Assembly resolutions have precedence in case of conflict.


Social Justice, Strong.

The World Assembly,
Aware of the competitive nature of most sapient beings,
Not wishing to nationalize everything in all WA member nations, an approach that does not work due to the competitive nature of most sapient beings,
Noting the continuous failures of private ownership regarding land, housing, large-scale food production, water, air, and others,
Noting that land and water are scarce resources that need to be responsibly used,
Convinced that markets are not the solution for land, food, housing and water problems,


Enacts:
1.The ownership of land in all member states shall be seized to that member state without compensation,
2.The ownership of houses in these member states shall be seized by that member state without compensation,
3.All companies tasked with production and distribution of water, and/or food in that member state shall be seized by that member state with or without compensation according to clause 4, and all parts of companies distributing or producing water and/or food in that member state shall be seized by that member state with or without compensation according to clause 4,
Housing shall be given access to fairly, with disregard to the personal wealth of the people, and payments for a better house shall be prohibited,
4. Compensation according to 3 should be given in the following manner:
Total compensation for all assets seized must be capped at what the member state can afford without disrupting their other obligations. The cap cannot go negative.
Seized companies or parts of them shall be given a reasonable price based on the usefulness of the seized assets to the member state. It is allowed to set a negative price(forcing the previous owners to pay the state compensation for having their assets seized) only if the member state can prove misconduct leading to negative values.
If total compensation for all assets in a member state would exceed the cap, then the maximum compensation for seized assets shall be lowered until the total compensation meets the cap.


Clarifies:
That older World Assembly resolutions have precedence in case of conflict.


Social Justice, Strong.
Last edited by Old Hope on Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:06 am, edited 12 times in total.
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.

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New order of Equus
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Founded: Apr 22, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New order of Equus » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:16 am

OOC: Isn't communism more about collectivising property then nationalising it?

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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:25 am

Old Hope wrote:water and food that is necessary for their continued survial must remain with these living people

Illegal for contradiction of GA#52 "Food Welfare Act."
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Life empire
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Life empire » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:28 am

1. stealing property from every citizen of a member nation is immoral (why do you think theft is illegal in most places?)
2. communism historically ends very bad and on this scale could cause billions if not trillions of deaths (noting the amount of ns nations)
3. I doubt this is even allowed in the world assembly
4. this is based of what you describe as "Noting the continuous failures of private ownership regarding land, housing, large-scale food production, water, air, and others," what continues failures? communism fails continuelly, sure, but capitalism is the best economic system so far

conclusion: I doubt you can pass this even if it was wanted becasue of wa rules, but even if it was allowed no way, it's an immoral piece of legislation that would cause far to many deaths and can not be allowed to pass
Last edited by Life empire on Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:37 am

Princess Madelyne Zylkoven, WA Representative of Daarwyrth: "Opposed for 2 reasons. First and foremost, the fact that this proposal is illegal for contradicting extant WA legislation. Secondly, for being a very poorly executed draft."
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Bigpipstan
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Bigpipstan » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:39 am

capitalism is the best economic system so far

Sure, if you ignore starvation due to market inefficiency low stardards of living, putting profits over people (destructive profit motive), undemocratic work places, boom and bust cycles and commodification of literaly everything then yes.
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Life empire
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Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Life empire » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:44 am

Bigpipstan wrote:
capitalism is the best economic system so far

Sure, if you ignore starvation due to market inefficiency low stardards of living, putting profits over people (destructive profit motive), undemocratic work places, boom and bust cycles and commodification of literaly everything then yes.


sure, if you ignore the fact that almost every if not every time communism or socialim has been tried it ends in a dictator with tons of wealth and a starving population (actually capitalism is more equal than communism and socialism when you think about it)

also standards of living and market efficieny is usually better in capitalism so what are you on about?
Last edited by Life empire on Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Aniia
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Father Knows Best State

how do i upvote a draft/resolution?

Postby Aniia » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:45 am

title

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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:51 am


Due to the effects of the coronavirus pandemic, many developed countries reduced their foreign aid budgets, leaving them less able to support the ongoing reduction of hunger in developing countries. Healthcare systems everywhere were also less equipped to cope with malnutrition than before, for obvious reasons.


This study was published in the same year as Rock Me Amadeus and La Isla Bonita and claims that the following countries are socialist:
Low income - China.
Lower-middle-income - Cuba, Mongolia, North Korea, Albania.
Upper-middle-income - Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, USSR, Czechoslovakia, East Germany.
(None of the countries in orange are currently socialist.)


The only use of the word "communist" in that article is right next to a [citation needed] tag.

Still opposed.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415
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Old Hope
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Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Old Hope » Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:22 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Old Hope wrote:water and food that is necessary for their continued survial must remain with these living people

Illegal for contradiction of GA#52 "Food Welfare Act."

Removed as unneccessary.
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Wayneactia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:49 am

After eight years around here, you still haven't figured any of this out have you?
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Anne of Cleves in TNP
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Founded: Aug 12, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:15 am

Old Hope wrote:The World Assembly,
Noting the continuous failures of private ownership regarding land, housing, large-scale food production, water, air, and others,
Noting the competitive nature of most sapient beings,

Enacts:
The ownership of land in all member states shall be seized to that member state without compensation,
The ownership of houses in these member states shall be seized by that member state without compensation,
All companies tasked with production and distribution of electric power, water, and/or food in that member state shall be seized by that member state without compensation,
Housing shall be given access to fairly, with disregard to the personal wealth of the people, and payments for a better house shall be prohibited,


Clarifies:
That small-scale production of food by people and groups of people - not exceeding two times their average needs - shall remain allowed,
That older World Assembly resolutions have precedence in case of conflict.


Social Justice, Strong.


“What, do you want the World Assembly to become a thief? Stealing just to destroy an ideology is unpopular amongst many WA nations, especially without compensation! And lastly, as already mentioned, this proposal is full of contradiction, and that last line does not help make this more legal. Opposed on the current draft.”
-Ms. Charlotte Schafer, WA Ambassador for the Clevesian Empire
Last edited by Anne of Cleves in TNP on Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Orwell Society
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:10 am

Yeah... no
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:32 am

"Ambassador, I fail to see what relationship there is between the title of this proposal and anything whatsoever in its contents."

"Ah, wait - did you mean Marcsism-Lennonism? Because that's what it is when the state just subsumes everything. Communism is entirely different. As an attempt to poison the well, this is an extremely well-written piece of work. As an attempt at a real proposal, it has zero merit and ought to be consigned to the dustbin of history."
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Wallenburg
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:42 am

I mean, based obliteration of the renting class and the housing market, but there are quite a few issues with how it's done here. That and you'll never get it passed in a capitalist WA.
I want to improve.
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Bananaistan
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Bananaistan » Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:58 am

"This is why NEF should not have been repealed."
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Old Hope
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Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Old Hope » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:10 pm

Improved a bit. Changed title from "Communism" to something more fitting.
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Wayneactia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:20 pm

Old Hope wrote:Improved a bit. Changed title from "Communism" to something more fitting.

Title =/= substance.
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Old Hope
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Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Old Hope » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:35 pm

Expanded.
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.

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Life empire
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Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Life empire » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:42 pm

honestly this resolution is so disgustingly immoral that if it passes (I really don't think it will because I believe this may be against wa rules) I would suggest everyone leave the wa (with thier mains, I have an alt in the wa instead of my main) because this forces all member nations to steal property and I would highly encourage any citizens from wa members to rebel if this passes (with the exception that the wa member leaves of course)

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Wayneactia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:50 pm

Life empire wrote:honestly this resolution is so disgustingly immoral that if it passes

I believe you likely have a far better chance of some uncle you have never met bequeathing you a billion dollars......
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Old Hope
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Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Old Hope » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:29 am

Removed the mandatory no compensation clauses for everything except land and housing.
Edit: Edited in compensation for everything except land and housing.
EDIT: This grew too large.
Changed to just land and housing. One step at a time.
Last edited by Old Hope on Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.

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Barfleur
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Barfleur » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:11 pm

OOC: In clause 3, why should "payments for a better house ... be prohibited"? If a person is willing to pay more money for a larger and/or nicer residence, the state could very well benefit by taking the money and using it to construct more houses for the less fortunate. This is how housing markets can work when not entirely taken over by the state, and it seems like this proposal (aside from the flaws which have already been remarked upon) would put and end to that. The whole point of the proposal appears to be to increase access to housing, and yet it creates no incentive whatsoever to construct more houses.
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Separatist Peoples
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:20 pm

"We see no reason to allow the state to rob citizens of their principle and best yielding investments. As usual, we oppose this hopelessly terrible draft."

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The Pacific Northwest
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby The Pacific Northwest » Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:38 am

I admit unregulated capitalism has flaws but whatever this is is not the answer. I don’t think I’d be ever be voting for this in any form because no matter how you shake it it’s unnecessarily taking away property people have purchased with their money without their consent or even necessarily compensation, which sounds suspiciously like theft.
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