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Thoughts on Egoism (And Max Stirner)

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Jewish Underground State
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Thoughts on Egoism (And Max Stirner)

Postby Jewish Underground State » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:43 am

So this thread is asking for your thoughts on Egoism like if it can work in the real world or if it is impossible.

We will be using the form of Egoism Max Stirner thought up. This version of Egoism is about how people should benefit themselves and should only work in groups if it benefits them. Property would only be held by whoever could defend it from others.

To make it simple it puts the individual above all.

So it’s basically a form of Anarchism.

My thoughts are that this is anarchism. If we have an true anarchist society this will likely be how things become with people working in groups to survive not because they have to but because it benefits them.

Max Stirner
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Last edited by Jewish Underground State on Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Based Illinois
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Postby Based Illinois » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:48 am

It's the cooler more honest version of liberalism.

Liberalism wants self-actualization, like egosim, but tries to pussyfoot around things like morals and " Good/Evil ".

When Egoists talk about freedom and individualism, they mean it, no *astericks, nothing. That's kind of respectable.

Still, an evil satanic ideology.

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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:50 am

Based Illinois wrote:It's the cooler more honest version of liberalism.

Liberalism wants self-actualization, like egosim, but tries to pussyfoot around things like morals and " Good/Evil ".

When Egoists talk about freedom and individualism, they mean it, no *astericks, nothing. That's kind of respectable.

Still, an evil satanic ideology.

It is true freedom. It just puts the self above all else. It’s like a mix of Social Darwinism and Anarchism.

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Arisyan
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Postby Arisyan » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:51 am

Anarcho-capitalism if it was founded by a racist.

Those are my thoughts.
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Postby Sordhau » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:51 am

Cancer, like all individualist ideologies.
Last edited by Sordhau on Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Terra-Novan Federation » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:53 am

It's a stupid ideology that only an edgy 16 y/o would adhere to.
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Postby Untecna » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:54 am

Who in a sane mind would want this?
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Postby Port Caverton » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:54 am

Most self-described egoists that I've seen on Twitter are massive assholes.

So therefore Egoism = bad
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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:54 am

Untecna wrote:Who in a sane mind would want this?

Me

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Forever Indomitable
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:18 am

Egoism is the status quo. For example, we help others because altruism helps us survive and perpetuate our genes and thus all actions are inherently self interested. Ever heard someone say "I love helping people".? They help others because it makes dopamine in their brain fire. It makes them feel good. All political and economic theory is for maximizing one's own comfort.

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Postby BEEstreetz » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:29 am

Sordhau wrote:Cancer, like all individualist ideologies.
Terra-Novan Federation wrote:It's a stupid ideology that only an edgy 16 y/o would adhere to.
Untecna wrote:Who in a sane mind would want this?
Arisyan wrote:Anarcho-capitalism if it was founded by a racist. Those are my thoughts.


Egoism is based and those criticizing it clearly have absolutely 0 idea about Johann Caspar Schmidt, his transformation into Max Stirner and have either not read or aren't... mature enough to read his essays, especially the main work.

1. Yeah because being among the Young Hegelians, Johann definitely didn't take the individualist stance with collectivism in mind.
2. I can imagine you in RL being what you've described.
3. Me.
4. A racist? (。_。) ...Once again JUG you seem to attract the...most confident but primary-school educated kind of people to these, somehow.
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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:34 am

BEEstreetz wrote:
Sordhau wrote:Cancer, like all individualist ideologies.
Terra-Novan Federation wrote:It's a stupid ideology that only an edgy 16 y/o would adhere to.
Untecna wrote:Who in a sane mind would want this?
Arisyan wrote:Anarcho-capitalism if it was founded by a racist. Those are my thoughts.


Egoism is based and those criticizing it clearly have absolutely 0 idea about Johann Caspar Schmidt, his transformation into Max Stirner and have either not read or aren't... mature enough to read his essays, especially the main work.

1. Yeah because being among the Young Hegelians, Johann definitely didn't take the individualist stance with collectivism in mind.
2. I can imagine you in RL being what you've described.
3. Me.
4. A racist? (。_。) ...Once again JUG you seem to attract the...most confident but primary-school educated kind of people to these, somehow.


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Arisyan
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Postby Arisyan » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:42 am

BEEstreetz wrote:
Sordhau wrote:Cancer, like all individualist ideologies.
Terra-Novan Federation wrote:It's a stupid ideology that only an edgy 16 y/o would adhere to.
Untecna wrote:Who in a sane mind would want this?
Arisyan wrote:Anarcho-capitalism if it was founded by a racist. Those are my thoughts.


Egoism is based and those criticizing it clearly have absolutely 0 idea about Johann Caspar Schmidt, his transformation into Max Stirner and have either not read or aren't... mature enough to read his essays, especially the main work.

1. Yeah because being among the Young Hegelians, Johann definitely didn't take the individualist stance with collectivism in mind.
2. I can imagine you in RL being what you've described.
3. Me.
4. A racist? (。_。) ...Once again JUG you seem to attract the...most confident but primary-school educated kind of people to these, somehow.

Sure man whatever you say.
Hyper-meta-post-post-modern populist eco-libertarian democratic socialist with council communist, luxemburgist, social ecologist and democratic confederalist characteristics and Celtic Nationalist Aesthetics and anti-fascist praxis.


Canadian Republican, Anti-monarchist, Anti-commonwealth. Bring back the FLQ and Weather Underground!
I'm interested in geography and politics and existential dread. *internal screaming*
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Forever Indomitable
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:44 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:Egoism is the status quo. For example, we help others because altruism helps us survive and perpetuate our genes and thus all actions are inherently self interested. Ever heard someone say "I love helping people".? They help others because it makes dopamine in their brain fire. It makes them feel good. All political and economic theory is for maximizing one's own comfort.

I'll just requote this. All actions are inherently selfish. Prove me wrong.

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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:50 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:
Forever Indomitable wrote:Egoism is the status quo. For example, we help others because altruism helps us survive and perpetuate our genes and thus all actions are inherently self interested. Ever heard someone say "I love helping people".? They help others because it makes dopamine in their brain fire. It makes them feel good. All political and economic theory is for maximizing one's own comfort.

I'll just requote this. All actions are inherently selfish. Prove me wrong.


Communist guerillas have used suicide tactics my dude. "We have nothing to lose but our chains" isn't just a catchy slogan, it's a realization of how worthless a proletarian is according to Capitalism. To suggest all political and economic theory is about "maximizing one's own comfort" is so profoundly idiotic that I don't even know how you came to such a conclusion in the first place. Most social, economic, and political theory was devised by people who were already living comfortable lives.
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The United Penguin Commonwealth
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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:50 am

so like objectivism but also anarchist? that sounds like the worst possible ideology.

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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:52 am

BEEstreetz wrote:
Sordhau wrote:Cancer, like all individualist ideologies.
Terra-Novan Federation wrote:It's a stupid ideology that only an edgy 16 y/o would adhere to.
Untecna wrote:Who in a sane mind would want this?
Arisyan wrote:Anarcho-capitalism if it was founded by a racist. Those are my thoughts.


Egoism is based and those criticizing it clearly have absolutely 0 idea about Johann Caspar Schmidt, his transformation into Max Stirner and have either not read or aren't... mature enough to read his essays, especially the main work.

1. Yeah because being among the Young Hegelians, Johann definitely didn't take the individualist stance with collectivism in mind.
2. I can imagine you in RL being what you've described.
3. Me.
4. A racist? (。_。) ...Once again JUG you seem to attract the...most confident but primary-school educated kind of people to these, somehow.


how about instead of saying “people who disagree are dumb”, you actually support your opinion with logical arguments?

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Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:56 am

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
BEEstreetz wrote:
Egoism is based and those criticizing it clearly have absolutely 0 idea about Johann Caspar Schmidt, his transformation into Max Stirner and have either not read or aren't... mature enough to read his essays, especially the main work.

1. Yeah because being among the Young Hegelians, Johann definitely didn't take the individualist stance with collectivism in mind.
2. I can imagine you in RL being what you've described.
3. Me.
4. A racist? (。_。) ...Once again JUG you seem to attract the...most confident but primary-school educated kind of people to these, somehow.


how about instead of saying “people who disagree are dumb”, you actually support your opinion with logical arguments?


That would require logical arguments for the defense of selfishness, for which there are none because selfish people didn't build civilization.
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Postby Terra-Novan Federation » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:58 am

there have never been any successful anarchist states, and those who came remotely close weren't individualist anarchism
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:58 am

Sordhau wrote:
Forever Indomitable wrote:I'll just requote this. All actions are inherently selfish. Prove me wrong.


Communist guerillas have used suicide tactics my dude. "We have nothing to lose but our chains" isn't just a catchy slogan, it's a realization of how worthless a proletarian is according to Capitalism. To suggest all political and economic theory is about "maximizing one's own comfort" is so profoundly idiotic that I don't even know how you came to such a conclusion in the first place. Most social, economic, and political theory was devised by people who were already living comfortable lives.

Sacrifice is part of their ego. They have an ideal, their ideal and they are willing to give their life (which satisfies their ego) so that their ideal is victorious over other ideals. Also, self sacrifice is still an evolutionary mechanism to our benefit. These resources should help you and any other sceptics:

https://www.psychmechanics.com/self-sac ... wn%20genes.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Hamiltons-rule

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Forever Indomitable
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:00 am

Sordhau wrote:
The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
how about instead of saying “people who disagree are dumb”, you actually support your opinion with logical arguments?


That would require logical arguments for the defense of selfishness, for which there are none because selfish people didn't build civilization.

Lol, yes they do. Who do you think organized the 1st collectives and set them against each other to conquer and form bigger ones that became civilizations?

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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:10 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
Communist guerillas have used suicide tactics my dude. "We have nothing to lose but our chains" isn't just a catchy slogan, it's a realization of how worthless a proletarian is according to Capitalism. To suggest all political and economic theory is about "maximizing one's own comfort" is so profoundly idiotic that I don't even know how you came to such a conclusion in the first place. Most social, economic, and political theory was devised by people who were already living comfortable lives.

Sacrifice is part of their ego. They have an ideal, their ideal and they are willing to give their life (which satisfies their ego) so that their ideal is victorious over other ideals. Also, self sacrifice is still an evolutionary mechanism to our benefit. These resources should help you and any other sceptics:

https://www.psychmechanics.com/self-sac ... wn%20genes.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Hamiltons-rule


"Killing yourself benefits you." is just about the dumbest fucking take I've heard yet, and I've heard quite a lot of dumbass takes in my time.

Lol, yes they do. Who do you think organized the 1st collectives and set them against each other to conquer and form bigger ones that became civilizations?


No one, because that's not what happened. Humans collectively realized that there were better chances of survival through cooperation and so formed communities to help each other survive. It's been well-established that even prehistoric nomadic hunter-gatherers from the Stone Age cared for the sick and elderly. Selflessness, not selfishness, built human civilization and it's the only reason anything is accomplished. Cooperation, trust, and most importantly: empathy.

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BEEstreetz
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Postby BEEstreetz » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:25 am

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:how about instead of saying “people who disagree are dumb”, you actually support your opinion with logical arguments?


Because, Moderator-Pen, people who disagree with me on this topic are overconfident and dumb. I can't have a discussion with people who clearly haven't read source material or the person they're trying to defame.
I can't do anything with my "arguments" if they have no idea what they're talking about. All I can say is: you're really overly confident about something you know nothing about, look it up, study the material, THEN make an opinion.
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Forever Indomitable
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:31 am

Sordhau wrote:
Forever Indomitable wrote:Sacrifice is part of their ego. They have an ideal, their ideal and they are willing to give their life (which satisfies their ego) so that their ideal is victorious over other ideals. Also, self sacrifice is still an evolutionary mechanism to our benefit. These resources should help you and any other sceptics:

https://www.psychmechanics.com/self-sac ... wn%20genes.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Hamiltons-rule


"Killing yourself benefits you." is just about the dumbest fucking take I've heard yet, and I've heard quite a lot of dumbass takes in my time.

Lol, yes they do. Who do you think organized the 1st collectives and set them against each other to conquer and form bigger ones that became civilizations?


No one, because that's not what happened. Humans collectively realized that there were better chances of survival through cooperation and so formed communities to help each other survive. It's been well-established that even prehistoric nomadic hunter-gatherers from the Stone Age cared for the sick and elderly. Selflessness, not selfishness, built human civilization and it's the only reason anything is accomplished. Cooperation, trust, and most importantly: empathy.

The lone wolf starves.


"Killing yourself benefits you." is just about the dumbest fucking take I've heard yet, and I've heard quite a lot of dumbass takes in my time.

Sorry, but this isn't an argument, give a real one or concede. I have given you material from which your counterpoint should be based on.

Yes, humans do cooperate, which does not exclude competition. All of our civilizations have been the result of conquest and kingship - the application of violence and control to the benefit of the ruling class. Selfishness and collectivism are synergistic; all it comes down to is striking the right balance.

Every political idea starts from the place of I want:

I want social justice.

I want free markets.

I want the sharing of resources.

I want people to follow the true God.

All desire starts at "I", the self and so every action undertaken in that desire is the expression of the self. Egoism isn't an ideology. It's how humans biologically operate.
Last edited by Forever Indomitable on Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:33 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The United Penguin Commonwealth
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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:34 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
"Killing yourself benefits you." is just about the dumbest fucking take I've heard yet, and I've heard quite a lot of dumbass takes in my time.



No one, because that's not what happened. Humans collectively realized that there were better chances of survival through cooperation and so formed communities to help each other survive. It's been well-established that even prehistoric nomadic hunter-gatherers from the Stone Age cared for the sick and elderly. Selflessness, not selfishness, built human civilization and it's the only reason anything is accomplished. Cooperation, trust, and most importantly: empathy.

The lone wolf starves.


"Killing yourself benefits you." is just about the dumbest fucking take I've heard yet, and I've heard quite a lot of dumbass takes in my time.

Sorry, but this isn't an argument, give a real one or concede. I have given you material from which your counterpoint should be based on.

Yes, humans do cooperate, which does not exclude competition. All of our civilizations have been the result of conquest and kingship - the application of violence and control to the benefit of the ruling class. Selfishness and collectivism are synergistic; all it comes down to is striking the right balance.

Every political idea starts from the place of I want:

I want social justice.

I want free markets.

I want the sharing of resources.

I want people to follow the true God.

All desire starts at "I", the self and so every action undertaken in that desire is the expression of the self. Egoism isn't an ideology. It's how humans biologically operate.


wtf are you talking about? “I want social justice” isn’t necessarily selfish because it starts with “I”. an action benefiting you also doesn’t make it selfish.

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Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

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