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Open Borders Hypothetical

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would you take the deal? House some migrants?

I support open borders, I would take the deal and house the immigrant family.
11
15%
I support open borders, but I wouldn’t take the deal, I’m not personally housing immigrants.
3
4%
I support pro immigration and pro refugee reforms, I would take the deal and house the immigrant family.
8
11%
I support pro immigration and pro refugee reforms, I wouldn’t take the deal, I’m not personally housing.
14
19%
I oppose open immigration and pro immigration/refugee reforms, I refuse the deal.
36
50%
 
Total votes : 72

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Open Borders Hypothetical

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:46 pm

Please consider the following hypothetical:

A supernatural entity wants to make a deal with you. If you take it, your country will institute (you pick) either totally open immigration or heavily relaxed pro-immigration and pro refugee reforms.

However, you (and only you) will be given a new social, legal, and political responsibility to pay for the housing of and live together with a randomly chosen family of four from the developing world who don’t speak your country’s language. You must live under the same roof and everything in terms of housing is paid by you (if you already own a big house, then good for you I guess). This arrangement must be sustained for at least 20 years after which they or your can leave and go separate ways.

So for example, if I take the deal. Then I would end up with a new socially enforced obligation to provide housing for a family of immigrants/refugees AND live with them under the same roof for at least 20 years.

Do you support open immigration? Do you support pro-immigration and pro-refugee reforms? Would you take the deal?

No. I don’t support pro-immigration policies. I also think the costs imposed in the hypothetical would be unacceptable.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:19 am

We need a magic wall, these supernatural beings aren't sending their best...
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Ethel mermania
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:09 am

I dont support open borders to begin with, so no deal
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Saralonia
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Postby Saralonia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:15 am

Mi casa es tú casa, compas
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(I accept the deal)
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 am

Ethel mermania wrote:I dont support open borders to begin with, so no deal

Same here
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Nipponkyo
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Postby Nipponkyo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:51 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:We need a magic wall, these supernatural beings aren't sending their best...


:rofl:

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Based Illinois
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Based Illinois » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:54 pm

The bottom option just BTFO'd literally everything else :rofl:

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Nipponkyo
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nipponkyo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:57 pm

Based Illinois wrote:The bottom option just BTFO'd literally everything else :rofl:


:rofl: :rofl:

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BEEstreetz
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Anarchy

Postby BEEstreetz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:01 pm

So, hypothetically, I could take this deal with Bill Cipher, let's say, for the sake of argument, even if I'm homeless?
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:11 pm

BEEstreetz wrote:So, hypothetically, I could take this deal with Bill Cipher, let's say, for the sake of argument, even if I'm homeless?


Theoretically (maybe) but why incur a socially enforceable personal debt?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Finalis
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Ex-Nation

Postby Finalis » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:06 pm

i like my borders, so this is a hard no for me.
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Hiram Land
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Postby Hiram Land » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:07 pm

It would be nice if, alongside, we can build more homes and more farms to feed the immigrants and house them. I do live in America so it's kind of a hard sell due to... reasons.
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BEEstreetz
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Postby BEEstreetz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:26 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
BEEstreetz wrote:So, hypothetically, I could take this deal with Bill Cipher, let's say, for the sake of argument, even if I'm homeless?


Theoretically (maybe) but why incur a socially enforceable personal debt?


So even if I was in the lümpenproletariat class, if I chose the option to take care of this family, I myself would still have to provide them with standards which are above the line of poverty, despite me myself being way below the line of poverty? And I'd have to do this with loans?
But then the question is, who would lend me these loans as I'm presumably also unemployed? The national bank? So they'd also give me a job, right?
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:27 pm

BEEstreetz wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Theoretically (maybe) but why incur a socially enforceable personal debt?


So even if I was in the lümpenproletariat class, if I chose the option to take care of this family, I myself would still have to provide them with standards which are above the line of poverty, despite me myself being way below the line of poverty? And I'd have to do this with loans?
But then the question is, who would lend me these loans as I'm presumably also unemployed? The national bank? So they'd also give me a job, right?


I mean, it didn’t occur to me anyone would want a debt/obligation they wouldn’t be able to meet.

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Christian Confederation
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:49 pm

Without borders a nation ceases to exist. Throwing the figurative door wide open to anyone and everyone weakens the nation culturally and economically. We can only suport so many people. We are failing our own so there is no reason to bring in more people until our own are cared for. A majority of Americans "live" pay check to pay check yet we allow hundreds of thousands of outsiders in and make the competition for jobs harder for those looking. This isn't like back in the day when we had untamed virgin land out west, we have conquered our continent wide nation and settled everywhere we realistically can Without turning the US into a dystopian hell hole that is all city.
If it were up to me we close all imigration, kick out any and all who entered Illigally that haven't assimilated into our society. Not to mention any that entered and refused to work like every other able Bodied American is expected to. Then we cut all unnecessary overseas spending, pay back our debt, give Johnny Taxpayer a break, and focus on our internal issues. Once we are better off we assess if Conditional Imigration should begin. And I'm not talking about America, every nation should do the same. Have Sweden for the Sweeds, Russia for the Russians, Germany for the Germans, England for the English, Brazil for the Brazilians, and America for the Americans. Globalism and multiculturalism are failed ideologies destined for the trash bin of history, Nationalism and Traditionalism is the future.
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BEEstreetz
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Anarchy

Postby BEEstreetz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:03 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:I mean, it didn’t occur to me anyone would want a debt/obligation they wouldn’t be able to meet.


I know someone like what I've described that would do it.
Anyway, I'm personally voting for option 4 where I support immigration because I recall a superpower being built on it. Refugees as well. I'm not housing them though, not my responsibility how the state chooses to deal with them.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:30 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:I dont support open borders to begin with, so no deal

Same. This really isn’t that thought provoking of a hypothetical
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:58 pm

For those who said “I support open immigration but I refuse to play a role in supporting that system,” how do you square this inconsistency?

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Kivoas
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kivoas » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:06 pm

If they can pass my country citizenship test or apply to work in my country. They're allowed access, children found on our borders automatically gain citizenship and will be housed in our youth camps. If the immigrant background check show's they're criminals. Then they'll be deported.

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Great Heathen Air Force
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Ex-Nation

Postby Great Heathen Air Force » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:27 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:For those who said “I support open immigration but I refuse to play a role in supporting that system,” how do you square this inconsistency?

There's no inconsistency. You've contrived a scenario where people are punished for tolerating immigration. It's not inconsistent for people to oppose being punished.

Although really the only sensible thing to do is to find the dumbass who put this policy in place, and get rid of them. It's a dumb policy.
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:35 pm

Great Heathen Air Force wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:For those who said “I support open immigration but I refuse to play a role in supporting that system,” how do you square this inconsistency?

There's no inconsistency. You've contrived a scenario where people are punished for tolerating immigration. It's not inconsistent for people to oppose being punished.

Although really the only sensible thing to do is to find the dumbass who put this policy in place, and get rid of them. It's a dumb policy.


My thinking is that, if you’re unwilling to personally care for refugees (because you mind the costs), why should you demand a whole country do so? Isn’t that inconsistent?

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Great Heathen Air Force
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Ex-Nation

Postby Great Heathen Air Force » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:42 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Great Heathen Air Force wrote:There's no inconsistency. You've contrived a scenario where people are punished for tolerating immigration. It's not inconsistent for people to oppose being punished.

Although really the only sensible thing to do is to find the dumbass who put this policy in place, and get rid of them. It's a dumb policy.


My thinking is that, if you’re unwilling to personally care for refugees (because you mind the costs), why should you demand a whole country do so? Isn’t that inconsistent?

Immigrants aren't normally refugees. And typically can provide for themselves. There's generally no cost associated with allowing them to do so.

Refugees are an entirely different scenario. Unrelated to open immigration. If that's what you're focusing on you should probably have specified that you were talking only about refugees.

One would think that as someone who has allegedly moved to another country, you would have a better understanding of this. Shockingly you come off as someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the subject at all.
Last edited by Great Heathen Air Force on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Armeattla
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Armeattla » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:55 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Great Heathen Air Force wrote:There's no inconsistency. You've contrived a scenario where people are punished for tolerating immigration. It's not inconsistent for people to oppose being punished.

Although really the only sensible thing to do is to find the dumbass who put this policy in place, and get rid of them. It's a dumb policy.


My thinking is that, if you’re unwilling to personally care for refugees (because you mind the costs), why should you demand a whole country do so? Isn’t that inconsistent?

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:56 pm

save america, stop socialism, build the wall
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Washington-Columbia
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Postby Washington-Columbia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:09 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:save america, stop socialism, build the wall


I'm no master of Economics or Social Issues, but I'm sure Immigration is definitely not Socialism.


And building a wall wouldn't completely stop immigration.
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