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Prescience- predicting the future

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What importance do you ascribe to visions of the future?

Visions are real and will happen. So it should be used for interpretation or as a guide when seen.
0
No votes
Visions are real but only show a potential outcome and don't have to be followed or come true.
3
13%
Visions are false but can provide insight to mind/emotion from interpretation/analysis of it.
7
29%
Visions are false and should always be rejected as pure coincidence if one plays out.
6
25%
The future is forever in motion, events that appear certain today are impossible tomorrow.
5
21%
Other (explain)
3
13%
 
Total votes : 24

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Saiwania
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Prescience- predicting the future

Postby Saiwania » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:02 am

On very rare occasions, I've had experiences before of a scene or vision of the future whilst asleep- which played out exactly as foreseen in real life at a later date. Although, I can't prove this. Usually I can't prevent it from happening, because I won't recognize what leads up to or leads out of the event predicted. So it has me pondering how much of existence is predestined and how much is truly random/dynamic and outside of any influence?

Voss is my favorite planet and story from SWTOR- which is an alien species and society led by individuals who can see, predict, and interpret the future and whose visions are never wrong. Although not all Voss have that ability, the ones who do are called Mystics and are revered and upheld in high status among the Voss, only ranking underneath The Three- which are 3 of their highest ranking Voss Mystics which can interpret and predict every vision that comes to their attention and directly lead their government. For them, a Mystic's words have weight- so the Voss generally speaking, follow a vision regardless of the consequences along the way of doing so. From their perspective, they "do what is necessary for their future."

As a fun hypothetical, here is a situation I propose:

You saw your country descend into a violent and bloody civil war. After the war ended, you saw the nation prosper. We have split into 2 sides to do your will. We battle until 1 side obtains victory, the other dies. War will eliminate those of us who will lead your nation into disaster, countless other people will die if the vision happens however, but the war will definitely result in peace and prosperity if followed. The war you foresaw has begun, but it is still within your power to either help the vision come true or not.

We follow your vision: should the war continue if the vision says so, or should the war stop- despite not knowing the consequence?

So far as the hypothetical goes, I believe that letting the vision play out is worthwhile, if the end result of prosperity and peace is as good as is promised in the vision.
As for real life, it is my belief that visions can happen but that it can't easily be explained or interpreted when it does occur, but that sometimes it is just one outcome or mere coincidence. Hence why it is sometimes so difficult to truly know what is going on.

Have you had any visions before? If you did, are you more inclined to give any thought/weight into it or more likely to dismiss predictions out of hand? Would you be more accepting or more unnerved at a vision playing out exactly as you remember seeing or hearing of it? Discuss.
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Umeria
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Postby Umeria » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:11 am

This one's easy when you're against war on principle. Stop the fighting and see what happens.

As for the visions thing - I'm not a psychologist, but I would attribute it to the human mind being a complex organ that we are far from completely understanding.
Last edited by Umeria on Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:15 am

Saiwania wrote:On very rare occasions, I've had experiences before of a scene or vision of the future whilst asleep- which played out exactly as foreseen in real life at a later date. Although, I can't prove this. Usually I can't prevent it from happening, because I won't recognize what leads up to or leads out of the event predicted.

You're not having visions of the future, you're having deja vu.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:57 pm

I eat a lot of melange, but I'm not telling you my visions because I'm a jerk.
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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:07 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Saiwania wrote:On very rare occasions, I've had experiences before of a scene or vision of the future whilst asleep- which played out exactly as foreseen in real life at a later date. Although, I can't prove this. Usually I can't prevent it from happening, because I won't recognize what leads up to or leads out of the event predicted.

You're not having visions of the future, you're having deja vu.

And déjá vu isn't prescience, it's apparently your brain misfiling new experience in long-term memory rather than short term, so you feel like you remember it from a while ago when really it's new.
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The Republique of Gazmendistan
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Postby The Republique of Gazmendistan » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 pm

Risottia wrote:I eat a lot of melange, but I'm not telling you my visions because I'm a jerk.

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Victorious Decepticons
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Postby Victorious Decepticons » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:28 pm

Confirmation bias makes it so that correct visions/dreams are the most easily remembered, while all of the wrong ones fade into obscurity.

With that in mind, I've paid closer attention to my own over the years (so that I could better take the inaccurate or just plain weird ones into account), and found that they are rarely accurate. Therefore, I don't base any actions or decisions on them, knowing that any particular one is far more likely to be part of the "wrong" bin than the "OMG it actually happened" bucket.

My reaction to the war would therefore depend on whether or not I thought my side would win. I would dismiss any "utopian" dreams as wishful thinking, since humans would still be running the place after the war ended, and humans don't produce utopias in real life. That's not to say that every human-run thing sucks, but it won't be unrealistically awesome, either.

Also...

whilst asleep


That's called a DREAM. Just because some dreams turn out to be correct doesn't make them into un-dreams. Take them with the large quantity of salt grains that dreams call for.
Last edited by Victorious Decepticons on Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Great Heathen Air Force
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Postby Great Heathen Air Force » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:36 pm

Risottia wrote:I eat a lot of melange, but I'm not telling you my visions because I'm a jerk.

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:33 am

doritos knows how to time travel, there was a commercial once where they made a time travel machine disguised as a box and then time traveled. i bet if you just called doritos corporate they could make predicting your future far easier by giving you a time travel machine
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Kalaron
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Postby Kalaron » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:35 am

Eahland wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You're not having visions of the future, you're having deja vu.

And déjá vu isn't prescience, it's apparently your brain misfiling new experience in long-term memory rather than short term, so you feel like you remember it from a while ago when really it's new.

On one hand, I've heard all the explanations, on the other they don't line up properly with my experiences, making it hard for me to believe. For me, the confusion after waking up from those dreams is enough to trigger a flash-bulb memory. It's not just the experience being misfiled, it's that there's supporting memories from immediately after the dream, where I consciously thought "how queer, I've never ran downstairs by the light of candles in a house I've never seen the layout of before like that", then three years later my family moves to a house that matches the exact layout of the dream, has a power outage that results in us using candles, that matches the light I saw from my dream.

For my take, I don't know if there's any science that can explain it. But my experience is that you can't change the events that appeared in the pre-experience. Whatever happened will happen -and leave you feeling dumbfounded that it did- and all you can do is ride it out.
Last edited by Kalaron on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:24 am

Kalaron wrote:
Eahland wrote:And déjá vu isn't prescience, it's apparently your brain misfiling new experience in long-term memory rather than short term, so you feel like you remember it from a while ago when really it's new.

On one hand, I've heard all the explanations, on the other they don't line up properly with my experiences, making it hard for me to believe. For me, the confusion after waking up from those dreams is enough to trigger a flash-bulb memory. It's not just the experience being misfiled, it's that there's supporting memories from immediately after the dream, where I consciously thought "how queer, I've never ran downstairs by the light of candles in a house I've never seen the layout of before like that", then three years later my family moves to a house that matches the exact layout of the dream, has a power outage that results in us using candles, that matches the light I saw from my dream.

For my take, I don't know if there's any science that can explain it. But my experience is that you can't change the events that appeared in the pre-experience. Whatever happened will happen -and leave you feeling dumbfounded that it did- and all you can do is ride it out.

Obviously you're not seeing the future, you're just remembering things wrong.
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and on that day, finally free, we will throw a motherfucking party
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:32 pm

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BEEstreetz
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Postby BEEstreetz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:00 pm

Pre-science? I think this is post-science tbf, the scientific method is collapsing on itself with the introduction of things like (n)-worlds and fractals.
Anyway,
The future is forever in motion, events that appear certain today are impossible tomorrow.

Fits my ontological and metaphysical views. In the highest level of topics, I reject the historiographical notions of "progress" and "regress" both as a straight line or a circular line.

My view of the ontological is that it operates in spirals, which appear to be moving circular (hence why people confuse it for "repeating itself") but it is never in the same spot. Moving onto lesser topics, the spiral can be either centrifugal or centripetal, though whether certain smaller "objects" are moving further inside or outside of it ("progress"/"regression" confusion) does not effect the spiral's structure and existence.
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Kalaron
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Postby Kalaron » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:53 am

Ifreann wrote:
Kalaron wrote:On one hand, I've heard all the explanations, on the other they don't line up properly with my experiences, making it hard for me to believe. For me, the confusion after waking up from those dreams is enough to trigger a flash-bulb memory. It's not just the experience being misfiled, it's that there's supporting memories from immediately after the dream, where I consciously thought "how queer, I've never ran downstairs by the light of candles in a house I've never seen the layout of before like that", then three years later my family moves to a house that matches the exact layout of the dream, has a power outage that results in us using candles, that matches the light I saw from my dream.

For my take, I don't know if there's any science that can explain it. But my experience is that you can't change the events that appeared in the pre-experience. Whatever happened will happen -and leave you feeling dumbfounded that it did- and all you can do is ride it out.

Obviously you're not seeing the future, you're just remembering things wrong.

See, the thing is it's not obvious to me. I, quite literally, have seen all the explanations, my fiance is a Psych major and I've explained this to them before.
That said the explanation doesn't really satisfy me in this case.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:54 am

Kalaron wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Obviously you're not seeing the future, you're just remembering things wrong.

See, the thing is it's not obvious to me. I, quite literally, have seen all the explanations, my fiance is a Psych major and I've explained this to them before.
That said the explanation doesn't really satisfy me in this case.

That you aren't satisfied by perfectly reasonable explanations just shows that you want to believe that you have some kind of magic power.
no war but class war
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One day the long fought battle between humanity and the forces of greed and division will end,
and on that day, finally free, we will throw a motherfucking party
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:55 am

Risottia wrote:I eat a lot of melange, but I'm not telling you my visions because I'm a jerk.

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Kalaron
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Postby Kalaron » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:37 am

Ifreann wrote:
Kalaron wrote:See, the thing is it's not obvious to me. I, quite literally, have seen all the explanations, my fiance is a Psych major and I've explained this to them before.
That said the explanation doesn't really satisfy me in this case.

That you aren't satisfied by perfectly reasonable explanations just shows that you want to believe that you have some kind of magic power.

Not necessarily, mostly just shows that I don't agree with the notion my brain has misfired repeatedly when it comes to stuff I actively comment on when I wake up from a dream, and relive years after.
In any event, it's hardly a power. More "my experiences have a weird thing I don't really think has been adequately explained".

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:18 am

Kalaron wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That you aren't satisfied by perfectly reasonable explanations just shows that you want to believe that you have some kind of magic power.

Not necessarily, mostly just shows that I don't agree with the notion my brain has misfired repeatedly when it comes to stuff I actively comment on when I wake up from a dream, and relive years after.
In any event, it's hardly a power. More "my experiences have a weird thing I don't really think has been adequately explained".

But it is just you believing that you have a magic power. Just a fun little quirk you like to think you have. Because it doesn't seem like you're taking it very seriously. I mean, if I seriously believed that I was somehow having visions of future events, memories of things that were yet to occur, I would be scrambling to find a way to verifiably prove that this was happening so I could convince real scientists to start studying me. I'd be signing up for any kind of study where there'd be some kind of monitoring happening when I woke up. Because if I can really see the future, that's Earth shattering. I can't even begin to imagine how such a phenomenon could change the world if we were able to get a handle on it. Even if we could never control the visions, just studying how they get into my brain could unlock whole new fields of science.
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One day the long fought battle between humanity and the forces of greed and division will end,
and on that day, finally free, we will throw a motherfucking party
- ancient proverb, probably

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:32 am

Ifreann wrote:..I'd be signing up for any kind of study where there'd be some kind of monitoring happening when I woke up...


The point is that precognition (prescience being another word for it) is extremely rare when or if it ever happens if it were true, so it likely can't be replicated. In SWTOR, the Voss believe that "nothing can stop what comes, our visions are certain, but that we choose our response. We see what we are meant to."

Victorious Decepticons wrote:That's called a DREAM. Just because some dreams turn out to be correct doesn't make them into un-dreams. Take them with the large quantity of salt grains that dreams call for.


The problem is that the norm for me generally speaking, is to never ever have dreams or at least none I can remember. Recalling anything visual is exceedingly rare on my part- so I'm more tempted to give meaning to that so far as how it is unique in terms of events. I can go almost a decade if not longer, before another might reoccur. But I acknowledge that perhaps there is nothing to it. But I've had enough experiences to theoretically support all of the outcomes I put into the poll.
Last edited by Saiwania on Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:47 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:05 am

Saiwania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:..I'd be signing up for any kind of study where there'd be some kind of monitoring happening when I woke up...


The point is that precognition (prescience being another word for it) is extremely rare when or if it ever happens if it were true, so it likely can't be replicated.

That's no reason not to try.
In SWTOR,

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no war but class war
He/Him


One day the long fought battle between humanity and the forces of greed and division will end,
and on that day, finally free, we will throw a motherfucking party
- ancient proverb, probably

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:49 am

Kalaron wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That you aren't satisfied by perfectly reasonable explanations just shows that you want to believe that you have some kind of magic power.

Not necessarily, mostly just shows that I don't agree with the notion my brain has misfired repeatedly when it comes to stuff I actively comment on when I wake up from a dream, and relive years after.
In any event, it's hardly a power. More "my experiences have a weird thing I don't really think has been adequately explained".

Do not underestimate the human brain's capacity for making shit up to fit its model of what it thinks is going on, or for trusting its own model even when it's actively proven wrong. There's a reason eyewitness testimony is so notoriously unreliable. It's not that witnesses are lying... it's that they actually remember things that didn't happen, that their brain invented to fill in gaps in its data. And frequently if the actual data doesn't match the invented model, it's the data that gets edited to fit.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:39 pm

There's the possibility of prescience being a thing. But that's not what's happening here, sai. Deja Vu is misremembering things and interpreting it as you do.
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