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Justice in the US: Have we made any progress?

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Lile Ulie Islands
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Justice in the US: Have we made any progress?

Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:33 pm

After learning about NSG's absence of a thread about class, I new, well, in short, we needed one.

So here it is.

The US has a long, and confusing history. Much of that history is related to race, justice, and class. When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them." And since then, oh boy, those ideas have sprouted. For years now, I've been wondering what is just? Or, what is unjust?

Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

So, I ask you, have we made any, whatsoever progress in the fight for equality, justice, and leveling out class?

*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.
Last edited by Lile Ulie Islands on Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:52 pm

I suppose the question is.. since when?

History fluctuates but over time it does trend towards progression. The fact those cases you mention even came to light is a form of progression. However I might change my response depending on whether we're talking about from 1865 or from 1965..
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:58 pm

Since the founding of the US, let's say.
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Asardia
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Postby Asardia » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:12 pm

People who looked like me used to be thought of as less than cattle. I'm now able to live my life without fearing being lynched because I looked at a white woman the wrong way. We are undoubtedly better now than we were in 1865 and 1955.
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The Front Range
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Postby The Front Range » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:16 pm

Yes, since 1776, we have made progress as a nation and as a collective society against racial injustice, with a lot of the progress having occurred in the last century
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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:17 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:Since the founding of the US, let's say.

Totally. Slavery is gone and minorities have rights that are respected in more areas then ever before. The fact the we have so much representation on tv to the point that a token minority character is a cliche shows how much progress we made
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:18 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Lile Ulie Islands wrote:Since the founding of the US, let's say.

Totally. Slavery is gone and minorities have rights that are respected in more areas then ever before. The fact the we have so much representation on tv to the point that a token minority character is a cliche shows how much progress we made

Asterisk needed on "slavery is gone", because according to its respective amendment its still legal to enslave prisoners.
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The Front Range
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Postby The Front Range » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:19 pm

Untecna wrote:
Jewish Underground State wrote:Totally. Slavery is gone and minorities have rights that are respected in more areas then ever before. The fact the we have so much representation on tv to the point that a token minority character is a cliche shows how much progress we made

Asterisk needed on "slavery is gone", because according to its respective amendment its still legal to enslave prisoners.

Which also happens to get a pass from the 13th amendment, meaning that as an institution, it itself isn’t entirely gone, just taking on a new guise
Last edited by The Front Range on Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My brain probably has lead and mercury deposits inside given how stupid I am

Nation doesn’t align with my views despite me not even knowing what they truly are

Fun Fact: If Ligma was a real disease, then there’s a decent chance that if the causative agent is a spherical bacterium, then it would likely be referred to as Ligmacoccus

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:21 pm

Since the Civil War and Jim Crow Era? Yeah. In the last few years? Up for debate, yet to be seen etc etc.

Regardless, there's still lots of work to be done. I think the question ought to be how do we keep making progress.

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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:22 pm

Untecna wrote:
Jewish Underground State wrote:Totally. Slavery is gone and minorities have rights that are respected in more areas then ever before. The fact the we have so much representation on tv to the point that a token minority character is a cliche shows how much progress we made

Asterisk needed on "slavery is gone", because according to its respective amendment its still legal to enslave prisoners.

Not leaving an asterisk down

slavery like human trafficking is illegal
Last edited by Jewish Underground State on Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:23 pm

Major-Tom wrote:Since the Civil War and Jim Crow Era? Yeah. In the last few years? Up for debate, yet to be seen etc etc.

Regardless, there's still lots of work to be done. I think the question ought to be how do we keep making progress.


Love this. This is what I think.
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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:24 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:Since the Civil War and Jim Crow Era? Yeah. In the last few years? Up for debate, yet to be seen etc etc.

Regardless, there's still lots of work to be done. I think the question ought to be how do we keep making progress.


Love this. This is what I think.

All that’s left is for the rights of minorities to be enforced in some areas.

And for the enforcers to not be biased.
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The Sherpa Empire
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:22 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:After learning about NSG's absence of a thread about class, I new, well, in short, we needed one.

So here it is.

The US has a long, and confusing history. Much of that history is related to race, justice, and class. When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them." And since then, oh boy, those ideas have sprouted. For years now, I've been wondering what is just? Or, what is unjust?

Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

So, I ask you, have we made any, whatsoever progress in the fight for equality, justice, and leveling out class?

*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.


First off, you're not a mod. You don't get to tell people what will get them DOS.

Secondly, you have to be exceptionally ignorant about the conditions under slavery to ask if we've made any progress or not. We clearly have.
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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:05 am

No. We have regressed even. What we see as "justice" today is all a façade. Justice is a myth. It can never exist.
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Emotional Support Crocodile
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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:34 am

You got rid of slavery, well except in prisons, and got Nomadland. That's about half a step forward.
Last edited by Emotional Support Crocodile on Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vistulange » Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:51 am

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:The US has a long, and confusing history.

I smiled at this.

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

Er...yes? You have made progress. Bad people exist. They will always exist. The existence of bad people does not make the entire society or the system in which they live devoid of progress. Progress—whether or not the term means anything meaningful is a matter of another debate—is not a binary. The US is a better society (at least by my standards) compared to 1776, 1861, and 1941. Does that mean it's an ideal society, no; does that mean there isn't more work to be done, no. So yes, there has been "progress", but that's more or less always going to be the answer you will get from such a question.

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.

Sorry, are you a mod?
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Natenara
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Postby Natenara » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:36 am

Vistulange wrote:
Lile Ulie Islands wrote:The US has a long, and confusing history.

I smiled at this.

However, these about 250 years fell on the New and Newest time, and therefore they must have been pretty saturated, right?

Torisakia wrote:No. We have regressed even.

Is that so? Was American justice 50 or 100 years ago really better than today?

Torisakia wrote:Justice is a myth. It can never exist.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:05 am

This is a legitimately ridiculous question. You cannot seriously argue that "you are not a citizen, are not a person, and never can be" is remotely similar to the state of affairs today. I can't take it seriously, it's philosophical pageantry.
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:47 pm

Des-Bal wrote:This is a legitimately ridiculous question. You cannot seriously argue that "you are not a citizen, are not a person, and never can be" is remotely similar to the state of affairs today. I can't take it seriously, it's philosophical pageantry.


Explain please. I am confused.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:49 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:
Explain please. I am confused.


Is our current system better than literal slavery of every member of a race: Yes and anyone who disagrees is clearly fucking around.
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BEEstreetz
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Postby BEEstreetz » Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:52 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:Since the founding of the US, let's say.

The U.S. seems to go through a cycle of "recession" and "progression" throughout all of its' history.

Progression: 1776-1837 (Every single president and act is memorable and foundational)
Recession: 1837-1897 (The "whig" era, the pre-civil war, the civil war, the reconstruction)
Progression: 1897-1965 (The "progressive" era, anti-trust laws, league of nations, coolidge, new deal, united nations, jim crow laws)
Recession: 1965-2008 (The "crash" era, watergate, vietnam, iranian revolution, contra, nicaragua, deregulation, 9/11, the recession)
Progression: 2008- (The current era: end of the recession, ending afghanistan, "new new deal", healthcare awareness, LGBT rights)
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Forever Indomitable
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Postby Forever Indomitable » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:04 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:After learning about NSG's absence of a thread about class, I new, well, in short, we needed one.

So here it is.

The US has a long, and confusing history. Much of that history is related to race, justice, and class. When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them." And since then, oh boy, those ideas have sprouted. For years now, I've been wondering what is just? Or, what is unjust?

Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

So, I ask you, have we made any, whatsoever progress in the fight for equality, justice, and leveling out class?

*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.


I think you're perpetuating "injustice" by exclusively demonizing Euros and Euro-Americans without any regard to the misgivings of any other race and you also trivialize and outright ignore all the suffering and damage that us Euros have endured at the very systems you refer to.

When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them."

A statement completely and utterly divorced from reality. The starkest contrast was the perceived difference in civilization levels.

Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

Not really, since the alphabet agencies and law enforcement agencies are also responsible for a significant number of them.
Last edited by Forever Indomitable on Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Sherpa Empire
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:37 pm

Forever Indomitable wrote:
Lile Ulie Islands wrote:After learning about NSG's absence of a thread about class, I new, well, in short, we needed one.

So here it is.

The US has a long, and confusing history. Much of that history is related to race, justice, and class. When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them." And since then, oh boy, those ideas have sprouted. For years now, I've been wondering what is just? Or, what is unjust?

Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

So, I ask you, have we made any, whatsoever progress in the fight for equality, justice, and leveling out class?

*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.


I think you're perpetuating "injustice" by exclusively demonizing Euros and Euro-Americans without any regard to the misgivings of any other race and you also trivialize and outright ignore all the suffering and damage that us Euros have endured at the very systems you refer to.


You are completely missing the point. The thread is not asking, "Who has it the worst?" or "which race is causing the most problems?" It is asking if we have made progress since the US was founded.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:46 pm

Yes, America has made a huge amount of progress in terms of social justice.

In 2022 alone we’ve had two landmark events of progress.

The first is that Will Smith’s slapping of Chris Rock was properly addressed and penalized by the Academy. In a previous decade Chris might have been told to “man up” and the whole thing may have been trivialized, but this time America actually came together and said “No, battery is not okay.” That’s huge.

Another huge watershed was the Johnny Depp trial. It was a huge moment because it really said “Hey, gender doesn’t matter. If you abuse people and you lie about it, there will be consequences. It is possible for women to abuse men.” There was a substantial pushback against the unchecked MeToo cancel culture machinery. This was huge.

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Terminus Station
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Postby Terminus Station » Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:20 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:After learning about NSG's absence of a thread about class, I new, well, in short, we needed one.

So here it is.

The US has a long, and confusing history. Much of that history is related to race, justice, and class. When Europeans first saw people in Africa, they thought, "well, their skin color is different, so we must be better then them." And since then, oh boy, those ideas have sprouted. For years now, I've been wondering what is just? Or, what is unjust?

Many systems in the US disproportionately affect those of color. We still use those same systems today. We may think that we have come along way in the so-called battle against racism, but only years after the deaths of Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and so many more, have we made any progress? Have we made progress in a country that has roadside, Ku Klux Klan, and white supremacist rallies?

So, I ask you, have we made any, whatsoever progress in the fight for equality, justice, and leveling out class?

*note: Please, please, please do not write any slurs or offensive comments here. Please. If you do, you can expect most likely being a DoS.


America has made progress in that their lack of progress is now more visible and less acceptable or as easy to hide. Things have improved but not by much.

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