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KOR/MRT The Sequel to the Prequel: A BoF 79 Bid (Casaran)

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]
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Ko-oren
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KOR/MRT The Sequel to the Prequel: A BoF 79 Bid (Casaran)

Postby Ko-oren » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:13 pm

THE SEQUEL TO THE PREQUEL
KO-OREN AND MERTAGNE BID TO HOST THE 79th BAPTISM OF FIRE
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Banner image courtesy of The Plough Islands, Anaia's resident cartographer.


FORMAT:
Based on previous BoFs, we are anticipating numbers between 28-36. Luckily, any even number works for our format: Casaran. Casaran, if you don't know, pits teams of similar quality againt one another for each matchday.

The round-robin phase will last for six matches, before giving way to a knock-out phase, which will consist of (at least) the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, the 3rd Place Playoff (in Mertagne), and the Baptism of Fire Final (in Ko-oren). Due to the nature of the competition, all teams level on points with the team that is eighth in the standings (using tiebreakers to sort the order) will advance to the knockout phase, with a single play-in round used to pare the teams down to the eight. Teams will be seeded for the play-in round (if necessary), and will be re-seeded for the quarterfinal, however all brackets will be fixed from that point.

We believe that the Casaran format (which has also been called Swiss-system format) provides a number of good benefits to the competitors in the Baptism of Fire, the most important being that it is more likely to pair teams who consistently RP - and RP well - than nearly any other conceivable format. This also means that every match is important, either in the immediate (i.e., eligibility for the knockout rounds) or in the near future (since for even the teams out of the running for the knockout stage, a game against a similarly-placed opponent is possibly the difference in which pot you end up in for the World Cup Qualifying draw). This format was also used for CAFA 4 to get an idea of the practical workings.

The tiebreakers, in order, will be: Points; Strength of Victory; Strength of Schedule; GD.

RP BONUS AND SCORINATION:
Scorination will be performed in xkoranate using the SQIS formula, with additive style mods. One matchday will be scorinated every 48h. A generous roster bonus will be provided, which will be worth up to 2 matchdays’ worth of RP bonus.

Cutoffs will aim to be between 19:30 - 20:30 UTC for both hosts, as they are in similar parts of the world.

IC INFORMATION:
Ko-oren is an island nation in western Anaia, whose government is meritocratic with an incentive to provide services and education at the highest level to all of its citizens - not just the most well-off ones. Education and environment are the pillars of most policies: education to help a new generation blossom (and to encourage the use of our nation's eleven main languages), and the environment as we feel the obligation to protect the many different climate areas, from the frozen tundras up north to the subtropical rainforests in the east. We play sports, almost all of them, with a history in football (association, American, rugby union, rugby league, Australian), bat-and-ball games (cricket and baseball), and the hockeys (field and ice). We're starting to build an Olympic tradition as well. As far as legislation goes: some in the Multiverse think that we are very much no-fun-allowed, but we beg to differ.

Mertagne is a nation situated on the continent of Calania, in central Anaia. The recently refurbished bicameral legislature is continuing to tackle the problems of a nation shortly over a decade out of a period of international isolation. The nation has an increasingly rich sporting history, with great success at the youth levels in football that is burgeoning to catapult to the senior international level, as well as moderate success in other sports and regional activity. The nation is rapidly becoming more well equipped to deal with a frankly unexpected increase in tourism, utilising its central Calanian location, in which it rubs shoulders with international heavyweights such as Starblaydia, Krytenia, and Huayramarca, to create transport and business links with the world over. Legislatively and culturally, Mertagne is a nation of opposites - from its rural-urban divide to its regionally divided legislature.

Both nations are fully equipped to host the throngs of fans that are sure to come along for the ride as teams make their first foray into WCC football. Full IC information, including stadiums, will be provided in the tournament thread.

EXPERIENCE:
Ko-oren is an experienced host who hosted the ODI World Trophy and the CAFA just last month. In the last 3-4 years, there's some rugby union World Cups, a World Bowl, a T20 World Cup, and a field hockey World Cup.

Mertagne is an increasingly experienced host who hosted the Baptism of Fire 78 and the Cup of Harmony 83, which occurred just last cycle. If it was good enough then, it's even better now!
Last edited by Ko-oren on Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships loser!

Trigramme: KOR - Demonym: Ko-orenite - Population: 27.270.096
Regions - Spreadsheets - Domestic Sports Newswires - Factbooks - Loro Language Schools - Goliæth Sports Café
Champions 1x World Cup - 1x CoH - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 4x World Bowl - 1x IBC - 4x RUWC - 2x RLWC - 2x T20 WC - 1x ARWC - 1x HWC - 1x Beach Cup
Runners-up 1x World Cup - 2x CAFA - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 3x World Bowl - 1x WCoH - 4x IBC - 2x RUWC - 1x GCF Test Cricket - 1x ODI WT - 1x WLC - 1x FHWC
Organisation & Hosting 1x WCC President - 1x BoF - 1x CAFA - 1x World Bowl - 1x WCOH - 2x RUWC - 1x ODI WT - 1x T20 WC - 1x FHWC - (inactive) IRLCC, BCCC, Champions Bowl

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Strike
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Postby Strike » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:16 pm

First Question for Ko-oren: Why are you competing with Mertagne for the rights to post this thread?

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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:22 pm

Strike wrote:First Question for Ko-oren: Why are you competing with Mertagne for the rights to post this thread?


Given we work with a single transferable vote, we figured we could bid with two viable formats which we both believe serve the BoF very well, and it is up to the community to vote for one of these, or for a different bid altogether. We aren't shooting ourselves in the foot by splitting votes.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships loser!

Trigramme: KOR - Demonym: Ko-orenite - Population: 27.270.096
Regions - Spreadsheets - Domestic Sports Newswires - Factbooks - Loro Language Schools - Goliæth Sports Café
Champions 1x World Cup - 1x CoH - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 4x World Bowl - 1x IBC - 4x RUWC - 2x RLWC - 2x T20 WC - 1x ARWC - 1x HWC - 1x Beach Cup
Runners-up 1x World Cup - 2x CAFA - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 3x World Bowl - 1x WCoH - 4x IBC - 2x RUWC - 1x GCF Test Cricket - 1x ODI WT - 1x WLC - 1x FHWC
Organisation & Hosting 1x WCC President - 1x BoF - 1x CAFA - 1x World Bowl - 1x WCOH - 2x RUWC - 1x ODI WT - 1x T20 WC - 1x FHWC - (inactive) IRLCC, BCCC, Champions Bowl

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Strike
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Postby Strike » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:37 pm

I think a (reasonable) suggestion from the discord would be to name them in such a way that it is not going to confuse voters. As WCC President I presume that responsibility will fall to you when listing the bid options prior to the vote - presumably as they have now been named here to include which of them is the Casaran one.


Personally I think from a technical point of view Casaran works for the BoF as well as it would anything. I'm not specifically for or against it. The biggest thing that might sway me against it is that the BoF isn't just about the results but also about providing experience to new users about how the NSWC Competitions work. Groups + Knockout formats do that. Casaran formats won't really do that and is probably un-necessary complication for first time users - Particularly the lack of being able to plan out your opponents in advance for the group stage.

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Independent Athletes from Quebec
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Postby Independent Athletes from Quebec » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:42 pm

One small question: Why up to two days' worth of RP bonus for rosters?

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Cassadaigua
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Postby Cassadaigua » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:07 pm

Ko-oren wrote: two viable formats which we both believe serve the BoF very well, and it is up to the community to vote for one of these, or for a different bid altogether.


I'm curious as to how a Casaran format serves a BoF field well. It might serve the puppets of established users well, but as a new user this would be a complete turn off if it were me. New users are unable to see themselves in a group, unable to know a schedule for themselves (as opposed to just the next opponent), and unable to establish rivalries and storylines with their group mates, etc. I know you have the other bid, but I would like to hear why you would want to go through with this one, other than for "something different". For new users, the usual is different.
Last edited by Cassadaigua on Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships winner!

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Specific Titles: World Cup 50, 51; WBC 14, 16, 19 & 50; WB 8, 22, & 40; WCOH 11 & 39; IBC 13.
Also: CR 40; CoH 39; Swamp Soccer 4, WVE 6; NSCAA 3, 5 & 9; NSSCRA 7
Runner Up: CoH 40, CR 37, 38 & 41; WB 21, WcoH 8, IBC 12, WBC 13, 15, 47 & 48, DBC 21. 3rd Place @ WC 86
WC Qualified for: 45, 46, 49-61, 67, 79 (DNP WC 69-77), 81-90.
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Graintfjall
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Postby Graintfjall » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:21 pm

Second CDG's concerns. I don't think Casaran is a good fit for the BoF. The desire for novel formats might fit a tournament that regular users want variety from e.g. regionals, age group tournaments, perhaps even WCQ/CoH, but the BoF is a unique tournament for each nation and having a user's one shot at the BoF be an experimental format seems, if not exactly unfair, then at least risky.
Solo: IBC30, WCoH42, HWC25, U18WC16
Co-host: CR36, BoF74, CoH80, BoF77, WC91
Champions: BoF73, CoH80, U18WC15, DBC52, WC91
Co-champions of the first and second Elephant Chess Cups with Bollonich
Runners-up: DBC49, EC10, HWC25
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The Cordian Isles
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Postby The Cordian Isles » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:26 pm

As someone who was in the BoF two cycles ago as a new player, I'm with Cass and Graint on this one. A Casaran tournament might be interesting, but best saved, in my opinion, for a regional tournament, maybe WCQs, etc.
Last edited by The Cordian Isles on Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ro16: WLC 38, WLC 39, CoH 83
QFs: BoF 77, WCoH 44, WCoH 45, AOCAF 67, AOHC 9, AOHC 10
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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:34 pm

To respond to all in one go:

"We believe that the Casaran format (which has also been called Swiss-system format) provides a number of good benefits to the competitors in the Baptism of Fire, the most important being that it is more likely to pair teams who consistently RP - and RP well - than nearly any other conceivable format. This also means that every match is important, either in the immediate (i.e., eligibility for the knockout rounds) or in the near future (since for even the teams out of the running for the knockout stage, a game against a similarly-placed opponent is possibly the difference in which pot you end up in for the World Cup Qualifying draw). This format was also used for CAFA 4 to get an idea of the practical workings."

Meaning:

There's an issue (a minor one, but still) that the BoF attracts plenty of non-RPing nations. Instead of playing match after match against those, having no other RP to bounce off of, turns off new users from participating, in my opinion. Rivalries can be crafted through both competing for something, rather than both being in the same group. You might not know your schedule before we start, but at least you know that you're going up against the best of the class from the get go, and meeting them again in the knockouts will be great to craft early relationships.

I'd like to specifically react to

Graintfjall wrote:Second CDG's concerns. I don't think Casaran is a good fit for the BoF. The desire for novel formats might fit a tournament that regular users want variety from e.g. regionals, age group tournaments, perhaps even WCQ/CoH, but the BoF is a unique tournament for each nation and having a user's one shot at the BoF be an experimental format seems, if not exactly unfair, then at least risky.


Could you tell me what you feel is unfair about it? We still have eight teams going to the quarterfinals, like in other tournaments. Like other BoFs, some RP-ing nations will get unlucky and miss out on the knockouts. The main difference is that in this format (which I wouldn't classify as experimental, tbh) you play opposition of your level, so each match is important and more likely to create rivalries/relationships.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships loser!

Trigramme: KOR - Demonym: Ko-orenite - Population: 27.270.096
Regions - Spreadsheets - Domestic Sports Newswires - Factbooks - Loro Language Schools - Goliæth Sports Café
Champions 1x World Cup - 1x CoH - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 4x World Bowl - 1x IBC - 4x RUWC - 2x RLWC - 2x T20 WC - 1x ARWC - 1x HWC - 1x Beach Cup
Runners-up 1x World Cup - 2x CAFA - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 3x World Bowl - 1x WCoH - 4x IBC - 2x RUWC - 1x GCF Test Cricket - 1x ODI WT - 1x WLC - 1x FHWC
Organisation & Hosting 1x WCC President - 1x BoF - 1x CAFA - 1x World Bowl - 1x WCOH - 2x RUWC - 1x ODI WT - 1x T20 WC - 1x FHWC - (inactive) IRLCC, BCCC, Champions Bowl

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Graintfjall
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Postby Graintfjall » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:32 am

Ko-oren wrote:Could you tell me what you feel is unfair about it? We still have eight teams going to the quarterfinals, like in other tournaments. Like other BoFs, some RP-ing nations will get unlucky and miss out on the knockouts. The main difference is that in this format (which I wouldn't classify as experimental, tbh) you play opposition of your level, so each match is important and more likely to create rivalries/relationships.

I did say "if not... unfair", but in any case, I didn't mean that the format wasn't fair, but that it was unfair that a team's one chance at a BoF could feature a heterodox format. Thinking about my own participation, if my BoF had been Casaran I would have withdrawn my signup, which doesn't seem to help anyone.
Solo: IBC30, WCoH42, HWC25, U18WC16
Co-host: CR36, BoF74, CoH80, BoF77, WC91
Champions: BoF73, CoH80, U18WC15, DBC52, WC91
Co-champions of the first and second Elephant Chess Cups with Bollonich
Runners-up: DBC49, EC10, HWC25
The White Winter Queendom of Græntfjall
President of the International Basketball Organization
Co-Convenor of the International Union of Basketball Clubs
Vice-President of the World Cup Committee

NS World Cup champions!

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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:52 am

Graintfjall wrote:
Ko-oren wrote:Could you tell me what you feel is unfair about it? We still have eight teams going to the quarterfinals, like in other tournaments. Like other BoFs, some RP-ing nations will get unlucky and miss out on the knockouts. The main difference is that in this format (which I wouldn't classify as experimental, tbh) you play opposition of your level, so each match is important and more likely to create rivalries/relationships.

I did say "if not... unfair", but in any case, I didn't mean that the format wasn't fair, but that it was unfair that a team's one chance at a BoF could feature a heterodox format. Thinking about my own participation, if my BoF had been Casaran I would have withdrawn my signup, which doesn't seem to help anyone.

I'm trying to see what you're getting it. Why would it be risky (to not use 'unfair' for it) for a BoF to use a different (heterodox) format, which has been used for BoFs in the past as well as for other tournaments?

One could easily argue that group stages are completely ineffective and unfair, for instance. As a Pot 2 team, it matters greatly whether you play the Pot 1 team on MD1 or on the last MD, for instance. In BoF-terms: if you're in a group, and you play the best RPer in the BoF on MD1, the match is still rand()-dominated to a large extent. If you play that same nation on the last MD, they have days and days of RP bonus now. I'm not saying we shouldn't do group stages, though.
Last edited by Ko-oren on Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships loser!

Trigramme: KOR - Demonym: Ko-orenite - Population: 27.270.096
Regions - Spreadsheets - Domestic Sports Newswires - Factbooks - Loro Language Schools - Goliæth Sports Café
Champions 1x World Cup - 1x CoH - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 4x World Bowl - 1x IBC - 4x RUWC - 2x RLWC - 2x T20 WC - 1x ARWC - 1x HWC - 1x Beach Cup
Runners-up 1x World Cup - 2x CAFA - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 3x World Bowl - 1x WCoH - 4x IBC - 2x RUWC - 1x GCF Test Cricket - 1x ODI WT - 1x WLC - 1x FHWC
Organisation & Hosting 1x WCC President - 1x BoF - 1x CAFA - 1x World Bowl - 1x WCOH - 2x RUWC - 1x ODI WT - 1x T20 WC - 1x FHWC - (inactive) IRLCC, BCCC, Champions Bowl

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Graintfjall
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Postby Graintfjall » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 am

I'm never going to support a Casaran so there's no point us arguing it really, just noting my opposition to using a format with no real precedent and that doesn't allow people to know who their opponents will be for a tournament in which they only have one chance. Maybe for a regional or something.
Solo: IBC30, WCoH42, HWC25, U18WC16
Co-host: CR36, BoF74, CoH80, BoF77, WC91
Champions: BoF73, CoH80, U18WC15, DBC52, WC91
Co-champions of the first and second Elephant Chess Cups with Bollonich
Runners-up: DBC49, EC10, HWC25
The White Winter Queendom of Græntfjall
President of the International Basketball Organization
Co-Convenor of the International Union of Basketball Clubs
Vice-President of the World Cup Committee

NS World Cup champions!

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The Licentian Isles
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Postby The Licentian Isles » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:54 am

I think this is part of the reason that I like these bids: you can decide separately on whether you trust the two hosts to run the BoF, which personally, I do (though I don't have a vote), and whether you think the format is suitable or not. It gives people the opportunity to present novel formats, while not worrying that they will screw up their chances of hosting if the community deems the format isn't suitable.

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:33 am

Graintfjall wrote:I'm never going to support a Casaran so there's no point us arguing it really, just noting my opposition to using a format with no real precedent and that doesn't allow people to know who their opponents will be for a tournament in which they only have one chance. Maybe for a regional or something.


Just to say: There *is* precedent for a Casaran in WCC competitions. Editions 42 and 52 both used the format, as did the 30th Cup of Harmony.

As for the point about not knowing who your future opponents will be, I'd argue this is at its least importance in the BoF, where most nations arrive with little to no fanfare and narratives are more often created through reacting to what's happening around you.

Anyway, that's my two pence.

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Farfadillis
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Postby Farfadillis » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:46 am

I agree with Grænt about Casaran having no basis on RL football and little basis on NS football and that, from that perspective, using it for BoFs might not be the best idea because the effect on new users could be to both break immersion and give incorrect expectations about future tournaments at the same time.

I don't agree about it being an especially grievous problem, though. It's the BoF: most new users will not even know what to make of Casaran to begin with, save for the odd IRL chess player.
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Capital: not applicable Ӿ Demonym: Farf, plural Farves
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Champions: World Cup 84 and AOCAF Cups 43, 48 and 57
Hosts: World Cups 85 and 91, Baptisms of Fire 54, 68 and 78 and AOCAF Cups 38, 60 and 67

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Legalese
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Postby Legalese » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:00 am

As asked to the other BoF bid, do you have any thoughts/plans on how you'd adjust the format if you end up with a smaller BoF field, like say somewhere in the 12-16 range?
Host/Co-Host of:
World Cup XXII and LXVIII
The Inaugural CAFA Cup
AOCAF Cup V and XXXIV
Cup of Harmony XI and XIII
Baptism of Fire IX, XIV, XV, XVI, XLII, LII

Winner of Cup of Harmony 55 and Jeremy Jaffacake Jamboree II
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Ko-oren
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Postby Ko-oren » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:14 am

Legalese wrote:As asked to the other BoF bid, do you have any thoughts/plans on how you'd adjust the format if you end up with a smaller BoF field, like say somewhere in the 12-16 range?


Without sounding like world's corniest salesman: another great thing about the Casaran is that it works with any even number.

With numbers under 20, we would still give every team at least 5 games, and we aim to send up to 50% of the teams to a knockout. So with 12, we'd go to a play-in round (see OP) and then the semifinals. With 16, we'd go to play-in and then quarterfinals.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships loser!

Trigramme: KOR - Demonym: Ko-orenite - Population: 27.270.096
Regions - Spreadsheets - Domestic Sports Newswires - Factbooks - Loro Language Schools - Goliæth Sports Café
Champions 1x World Cup - 1x CoH - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 4x World Bowl - 1x IBC - 4x RUWC - 2x RLWC - 2x T20 WC - 1x ARWC - 1x HWC - 1x Beach Cup
Runners-up 1x World Cup - 2x CAFA - 1x AOCAF - 1x WBC - 3x World Bowl - 1x WCoH - 4x IBC - 2x RUWC - 1x GCF Test Cricket - 1x ODI WT - 1x WLC - 1x FHWC
Organisation & Hosting 1x WCC President - 1x BoF - 1x CAFA - 1x World Bowl - 1x WCOH - 2x RUWC - 1x ODI WT - 1x T20 WC - 1x FHWC - (inactive) IRLCC, BCCC, Champions Bowl


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