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[DRAFT] Recognition of Personal Ownership

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Brezzia
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Founded: Aug 26, 2016
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[DRAFT] Recognition of Personal Ownership

Postby Brezzia » Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:40 am

To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The seventh draft changed the proposal name to the Recognition of Personal Ownership.

Minor update: Strength reduced; Clause 5c modified.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Ownership"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, education and art,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    2. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing or material needs as defined in clause 1d,
    3. "ownership" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of a thing,
    4. "possesion" as the practical control of a thing by a person even without having ownership of it,
    5. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    6. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    7. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    8. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal ownership" as the ownership of the following things, hereinafter referred to as "personal goods", aimed at supporting a person and the person's family:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal ownership" from "private ownership" in that the latter is the ownership of things, including what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d, aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work;

  4. Requires that Member Nations recognize and guarantee personal ownership;

  5. Mandates that Member Nations prescribe the ways personal ownership is:
    1. acquired, in particular regulating the cases of taking possession of nobody's or abandoned things (occupation), finding lost things (invention), adding value or materials to other's things (accession), separable or non-separable mixing of different persons' things (union and commixtion), formation of a new thing from other's things (specification), possession for a certain period of time of other's things (usucaption),
    2. enjoyed, in particular prohibiting the speculation and sharecropping of personal goods and regulating their selling, renting, mortgaging, and
    3. limited, in particular determining the unlawful use of personal goods to harm or harass others and allowing their expropriation for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation;

  6. Obliges Member Nations to ensure the social function of personal goods and to make them accessible to all in complying with the provisions of clause 5;

  7. Allows Member Nations to determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives.
Last edited by Brezzia on Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:34 pm, edited 26 times in total.
WA Ambassador of Brezzia, Carlo A. Van Vera

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Brezzia
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Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Brezzia » Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:41 am

Guide summarizing the proposal
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The Brezzian WA delegation submitted a draft to recognize Personal Property.

"Recognition of Personal Proprety"

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, education and culture,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and human dignity, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines "personal propriety" as the property of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's own work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  2. Mandates that Member Nations
    1. recognize and guarantee personal propriety, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  3. Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 2b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from exploiting the work of others;
  4. Allows Member Nations to
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The Brezzian WA delegation submitted a second draft for the recognition of Personal Property, introducing the definitions of material and cultural needs and the distinction between personal and private property.

We thank you for your contributions and we look forward to your further contributions for new changes to the draft.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and human dignity, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "personal property" as the property of:
      1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
      2. housing,
      3. small cultivation, and
      4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
    2. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    3. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment;
  2. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that:
    1. "personal property" is the property of what is specified in clause 1a for the purpose of supporting a person and the person's family,
    2. "private property" includes the property of what is specified in clause 1a for the purpose of making profit from the exploitation of others' work;
  3. Mandates that Member Nations:
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  4. Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 3b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from from the exploitation of others' work;

  5. Allows Member Nations to:
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The third draft for the recognition of Personal Property, adds the definitions of "social function" and "social objective". The definition of "personal property" is now a separated article.

We continue to thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and human dignity, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    2. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    3. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole,
    4. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve human well-being and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal property" as the property aimed at supporting a person and the person's family of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that the latter includes the property of what is specified in clause 2 for the purpose of making profit from the exploitation of others' work;

  4. Mandates that Member Nations:
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  5. Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 4b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from from the exploitation of others' work;

  6. Allows Member Nations to:
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

This fourth draft for the recognition of Personal Property adds the definitions of "property" and "family" and eliminates all references to humans to include non-human people. It also corrects clause 3 to make private property including the same things of personal property for a different purpuse, not the whole personal property.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "property" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of things,
    2. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing and resources defined as material needs in clause 1c,
    3. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    4. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    5. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    6. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal property" as the property aimed at supporting a person and the person's family of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that the latter includes the property aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work of what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d;

  4. Mandates that Member Nations:
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  5. Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 4b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from from the exploitation of others' work;

  6. Allows Member Nations to:
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The fifth draft for the recognition of Personal Property adds the definitions of "person" to exclude juridical person. Clause 5 about working means and tools was eliminated.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "property" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of things,
    2. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    3. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing and material resources as defined in clause 1d,
    4. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    5. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    6. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    7. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal property" as the property aimed at supporting a person and the person's family of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that the latter includes the property aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work of what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d;

  4. Mandates that Member Nations:
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  5. Allows Member Nations to:
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The sixth draft for the recognition of Personal Property has been submitted to the GA.

In clause 1c the words "and material resources" are substituted with "or material needs".

Clause 3 was reorganize to give a definition of "private property".

Clauses 5b and 5c were adapted to the definition of property.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "property" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of things,
    2. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    3. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing or material needs as defined in clause 1d,
    4. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    5. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    6. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    7. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal property" as the property aimed at supporting a person and the person's family of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that the latter is the property aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work of things, including what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d;

  4. Mandates that Member Nations:
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  5. Allows Member Nations to:
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of things controlled as personal property,
    3. expropriate things controlled as personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The seventh draft for the recognition of Personal Property has been submitted to the GA.

The definition of "property" was changed with the definition of "ownership" in clause 1c, and the word "property" was changed with "ownership" in clauses 2 and 3. The definition of "possession" was added.

Clauses 4b, 5b, and 5c has been united in the new clause 5, while the old clause 5a has become the new clause 6.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    2. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing or material needs as defined in clause 1d,
    3. "ownership" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of a thing,
    4. "possesion" as the practical control of a thing by a person even without having ownership of it,
    5. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    6. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    7. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    8. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal property" as the ownership aimed at supporting a person and the person's family of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal property" from "private property" in that the latter is the ownership aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work of things, including what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d;

  4. Requires that Member Nations recognize and guarantee personal property;

  5. Mandates that Member Nations prescribe, in order to ensure the social function of things controlled through personal property and to make them accessible to all, the ways personal property is:
    1. acquired, in particular regulating the cases of taking possession of nobody's or abandoned things (occupation), finding lost things (invention), adding value or materials to other's things (accession), separable or non-separable mixing of different persons' things (union and commixtio), formation of a new thing from other's things (specification), possession for a certain period of time of other's things (usucaption),
    2. enjoyed, in particular prohibiting the speculation and sharecropping of things controlled through personal property and regulating their selling, renting, mortgage loans, and
    3. limited, in particular allowing the expropriation of things controlled through personal property for reasons of the public weal in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation and prohibiting their use that harms or harasses others;
  6. Allows Member Nations to determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The seventh draft changed the proposal name to the Recognition of Personal Ownership.

The term "property" was replaced with "ownership" in title, definition 1c, and clauses 2 and 3.

Clause 2 intro was changed to introduce the term "personal goods", which replaced the term "things controlled through personal property" in clause 5.

Part of clause 4b clause 5b and 5c were united in the new clause 5, while the other part of 4b and clause 5a became the new clauses 6 and 7.

The term "mortgage loans" was replaced with "mortgaging" in clause 5b.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Ownership"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    2. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing or material needs as defined in clause 1d,
    3. "ownership" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of a thing,
    4. "possesion" as the practical control of a thing by a person even without having ownership of it,
    5. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    6. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    7. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    8. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal ownership" as the ownership of the following things, hereinafter referred to as "personal goods", aimed at supporting a person and the person's family:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal ownership" from "private ownership" in that the latter is the ownership of things, including what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d, aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work;

  4. Requires that Member Nations recognize and guarantee personal ownership;

  5. Mandates that Member Nations prescribe the ways personal ownership is:
    1. acquired, in particular regulating the cases of taking possession of nobody's or abandoned things (occupation), finding lost things (invention), adding value or materials to other's things (accession), separable or non-separable mixing of different persons' things (union and commixtion), formation of a new thing from other's things (specification), possession for a certain period of time of other's things (usucaption),
    2. enjoyed, in particular prohibiting the speculation and sharecropping of personal goods and regulating their selling, renting, mortgaging, and
    3. limited, in particular prohibiting the use of personal goods that harms or harasses others and allowing their expropriation for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation;
  6. Obliges Member Nations to comply with the provisions of clause 5 in order to ensure the social function of personal goods and to make them accessible to all;

  7. Allows Member Nations to determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives.
To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The seventh draft changed the proposal name to the Recognition of Personal Ownership.

Minor update: Strength reduced; Clause 5c modified.

A guide summarizing the proposal has been created. I will also try to add the issues that have been exposed in this thread.

Thank you for your contributions.

"Recognition of Personal Ownership"

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, education and art,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and dignity of persons, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution:
    1. "person" as an individual whose personhood is legally recognized in a Member Nation,
    2. "family" as a group of persons related by affection or kinship who share housing or material needs as defined in clause 1d,
    3. "ownership" as a system of rights that gives a person legal control of a thing,
    4. "possesion" as the practical control of a thing by a person even without having ownership of it,
    5. "material needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for health, water, food, and shelter,
    6. "cultural needs" as the basic things that are necessary or helpful for education, arts, and entertainment,
    7. "social function" as the contribution to the collective or common good to benefit society as a whole, and
    8. "social objective" as a desired outcome of a project to improve well-being of persons and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;
  2. Identifies "personal ownership" as the ownership of the following things, hereinafter referred to as "personal goods", aimed at supporting a person and the person's family:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  3. Distinguishes "personal ownership" from "private ownership" in that the latter is the ownership of things, including what is identified in clauses 2a, 2b, 2c, and 2d, aimed at making profit from the exploitation of others' work;

  4. Requires that Member Nations recognize and guarantee personal ownership;

  5. Mandates that Member Nations prescribe the ways personal ownership is:
    1. acquired, in particular regulating the cases of taking possession of nobody's or abandoned things (occupation), finding lost things (invention), adding value or materials to other's things (accession), separable or non-separable mixing of different persons' things (union and commixtion), formation of a new thing from other's things (specification), possession for a certain period of time of other's things (usucaption),
    2. enjoyed, in particular prohibiting the speculation and sharecropping of personal goods and regulating their selling, renting, mortgaging, and
    3. limited, in particular determining the unlawful use of personal goods to harm or harass others and allowing their expropriation for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation;

  6. Obliges Member Nations to ensure the social function of personal goods and to make them accessible to all in complying with the provisions of clause 5;

  7. Allows Member Nations to determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives.
Last edited by Brezzia on Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 25 times in total.
WA Ambassador of Brezzia, Carlo A. Van Vera

User avatar
Chipoli
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 100
Founded: Mar 16, 2022
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Chipoli » Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:49 am

There's a typo in Clause 1, which leads to "Personal Property" not being properly defined.

And why is renting being prohibited? Do you mean to evict anyone currently renting an apartment? What if they can't afford a home? Are they forced to sleep on park benches and streets?
Last edited by Chipoli on Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The North Pacific.

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Daarwyrth
Minister
 
Posts: 2370
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:52 am

recognize and guarantee personal propriety, and


The princess sighs upon reading this. "So, member states have to grant everyone in their nation a home, is that correct? Alright, how will the land for that be made available, hmm? Do you mean to say that we have to cut down forests and pave over unique environments so that we can give everyone in Daarwyrth a house? Or would you rather have us cram our citizens together in tiny houses stacked on top of one another in poor conditions to save up space? Because your resolution doesn't specify what conditions "personal propriety" need to exist in, only that it is guaranteed. This way, the personal property that has to be guaranteed can be of poor or even dangerous quality."

Madelyne clears her throat for a moment. "And Ambassador, you demand that all citizens are guaranteed 'goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person' with reckless abandon. Your resolution will ensure that everyone will have to be guaranteed a car, do you have any idea how polluting that will be? The same goes for holidays by aircraft as "material needs", gadgets, foodstuffs, everything. Tell me, Ambassador, is it your intent to completely destroy the environments of member nations? Because that is what your resolution will bring about. In the pursuit of fulfilling every single material need that citizens across member nations have, we will have to produce and manufacture obscene amounts of products and material possessions. I'm terrified, frankly, with what you're trying to do here. Because it's not socialism that you will be bringing about across the World Assembly, but rampant materialism."

prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;

The princess scoffs. "How awfully draconian and authoritarian, to demand that member nations tell their citizens how their property must be enjoyed. You realise you're giving free reign to member nations to set the most horrific and terrible laws on how property can be acquired, enjoyed and limited? In addition, this clause is contradicting the previous one, namely that personal property needs to be guaranteed. If something has to be guaranteed, how can it be then limited?"

prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,


Madelyne raises her eyebrows. "Ambassador, do you realise how many people rely on renting apartments because their financial situation doesn't allow them to buy and have a house? If you prohibit renting, you'll ensure that people who already have trouble making ends meet will end up on the streets. Is that your intent? To have inhabitants of member nations end up on the street because they can't afford a house? If so, then your resolution should be vehemently opposed on ground of morality."

The princess then pushes the draft papers away from her with finality and a hint of disdain. "Ambassador, your proposal is cruel. It will not alleviate the woes of the common folk which I assume you mean to protect with this... endeavour. Instead, it will inflict more suffering upon them. You will subject citizens of member nations to poor quality material goods and services, you will ensure hard working citizens will end up on the street, you will ensure that people will be crammed into tight and dangerous living conditions, because your proposal is completely reckless on all regards in its intent to dispense material goods to everyone. Not to mention the catastrophic impact this will have on the environments of member nations. I'm appalled at the implications of the proposal you have drafted, and will vehemently oppose it on every step."
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:10 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Greater Sirne » Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:57 am

Brezzia wrote:To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

[*]Allows Member Nations to
  1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
  2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
  3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.
[/list][/box]


I’m more concerned by clause 4b and 4c because it explicitly prohibits mortgages, renting, loans of personal property.

There’s a loophole in 4c meaning that a government can expropriate property for any reason within the law, which means a state could just expropriate what it wants, and compensation is far too vague
Last edited by Greater Sirne on Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:33 am

Thanks for Ambassadors answers.

We removed the typos on "personal property".

Clause 4 allows Member Nations to regulates the excange of personal property in order to:
a. assure that inhabitants have a fair quote of consumable goods and that those goods are used to satisfy the basic need of an individual, avoiding greedy accumulation;
b. avoid that personal property is used to gain profit or is lost to pay debts;
Clause 4c aim is limiting the expropriation of personal property only in cases that has already been indicated by previously passed local laws (limiting arbritary abuse). Due to difference in value beetween countrie, it's impossible to give one only scale of compensation for all nations (we consider some inferences expressed in this regard to be useless ridicule of the topic).

We reiterate our thanks for the Ambassadors' interventions and look forward to future ones.
Last edited by Brezzia on Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:49 am

Zylkoven: "Ambassador, you have not improved your resolution. You have not addressed the glaring issue of environmental impact by demanding such reckless materialism as this proposal does. Furthermore, Clause 2a and 2b continue to contradict one another. Clause 2b let states limit the way personal property can be acquired, enjoyed and utilised, while Clause 2a demands that members guarantee everyone personal property. Not to mention that you have done nothing to address the fact that member states can put up authoritarian and draconian limitations on the acquisition and enjoyment of personal property. Also, Clause 3 is unclear. After having re-read it several times, it seems to be banning people from inheriting personal property from a parent, or other family member. Clause 4a is also not an improvement at all, as it gives states free reign as to how they organise their national economy, because "coordinated to social objectives" means nothing. What are "social objectives"? The objectives of a society? There are millions of people in any given society, and so there would be millions of objectives. The text is not clear at all. Also, I'm appalled you continue to leave in Clause 4b. Is your delegation so cruel as to want to see people renting apartments evicted from their homes and be left on the street? Truly horrible. Also, Clause 4c now gives local authorities all the power to expropriate personal property on the whims of the public. In other words, your proposal will ensure that any group can band together and demand by "public weal" that someone's property is expropriated. That is, plainly put, insane.

Ambassador, this proposal has terrible and horrendous ramifications. As I stated before, it will inflict cruelty and suffering upon the citizens of member nations. This proposal won't help anyone. In fact, it will harm many people and the environment."
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:20 am

Daarwyrth wrote:snip

Well, it has been less than 24 hours since I posted this proposal and I have a life outside this website. It is also summer in my hemisphere.

You seem to feel free to use the arguments to oppose this proposal (some of them as ridiculous as environmental and hereditary) just to insult a stranger. Consequently, you should know that people will feel free not to respond to your provocations or even not to read them.

If you want to contribute because you understand the purpose of this proposal (as you have stated), you are welcome to do so. If you just want to dissipate your anger, well, go ahead. I don't care. I just ask you not to be annoying by responding 15 minutes after each of my posts.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:25 am

Brezzia wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:snip

Well, it has been less than 24 hours since I posted this proposal and I have a life outside this website. It is also summer in my hemisphere.

You seem to feel free to use the arguments to oppose this proposal (some of them as ridiculous as environmental and hereditary) just to insult a stranger. Consequently, you should know that people will feel free not to respond to your provocations or even not to read them.

If you want to contribute because you understand the purpose of this proposal (as you have stated), you are welcome to do so. If you just want to dissipate your anger, well, go ahead. I don't care. I just ask you not to be annoying by responding 15 minutes after each of my posts.

OOC: I see that you are not yet familiar with the aspects of the World Assembly. My comments were made in-character, not out-of-character. My comments also weren't insults, nor angry. They are valid critiques and flaws within your proposal, but conveyed in-character by my ambassador character.

If you find commentary and feedback "annoying", then I truly wonder why you even ask for feedback. You don't get to regulate when I post commentary and feedback. In fact, I'm taking the time out of my own free time to point out where the flaws in your proposal are and what you can do to mend it. Calling that "annoying" is curious, to say the least.

And my arguments aren't ridiculous. What do you think will happen to environments if nations are forced to manufacture and produce an abundance of goods and products to satisfy the material needs of everyone? How much resources will need to be mined to see to those insane production targets? You can't just dismiss that by calling it ridiculous.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:28 am

Daarwyrth wrote:
recognize and guarantee personal propriety, and


The princess sighs upon reading this. "So, member states have to grant everyone in their nation a home, is that correct? Alright, how will the land for that be made available, hmm? Do you mean to say that we have to cut down forests and pave over unique environments so that we can give everyone in Daarwyrth a house? Or would you rather have us cram our citizens together in tiny houses stacked on top of one another in poor conditions to save up space? Because your resolution doesn't specify what conditions "personal propriety" need to exist in, only that it is guaranteed. This way, the personal property that has to be guaranteed can be of poor or even dangerous quality."

Madelyne clears her throat for a moment. "And Ambassador, you demand that all citizens are guaranteed 'goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person' with reckless abandon. Your resolution will ensure that everyone will have to be guaranteed a car, do you have any idea how polluting that will be? The same goes for holidays by aircraft as "material needs", gadgets, foodstuffs, everything. Tell me, Ambassador, is it your intent to completely destroy the environments of member nations? Because that is what your resolution will bring about. In the pursuit of fulfilling every single material need that citizens across member nations have, we will have to produce and manufacture obscene amounts of products and material possessions. I'm terrified, frankly, with what you're trying to do here. Because it's not socialism that you will be bringing about across the World Assembly, but rampant materialism."

Kevin Mitchell, third-in-line to the post of Delegate-Ambassador, about three hours later: Fuck this fucking tape recorder. Whoever made this couldn't design a sheet of blank paper for toffee... okay, what was I saying? When my friend from Brezzia said he wanted member states to "guarantee private property," he did not mean that all member states provide a universal basic income, or offer every seven-year-old in the World Assembly a packet of crisps every week. Perhaps he would be better off saying that member states should respect the private property held by their inhabitants, or guarantee the right to own and acquire private property.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:31 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:
The princess sighs upon reading this. "So, member states have to grant everyone in their nation a home, is that correct? Alright, how will the land for that be made available, hmm? Do you mean to say that we have to cut down forests and pave over unique environments so that we can give everyone in Daarwyrth a house? Or would you rather have us cram our citizens together in tiny houses stacked on top of one another in poor conditions to save up space? Because your resolution doesn't specify what conditions "personal propriety" need to exist in, only that it is guaranteed. This way, the personal property that has to be guaranteed can be of poor or even dangerous quality."

Madelyne clears her throat for a moment. "And Ambassador, you demand that all citizens are guaranteed 'goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person' with reckless abandon. Your resolution will ensure that everyone will have to be guaranteed a car, do you have any idea how polluting that will be? The same goes for holidays by aircraft as "material needs", gadgets, foodstuffs, everything. Tell me, Ambassador, is it your intent to completely destroy the environments of member nations? Because that is what your resolution will bring about. In the pursuit of fulfilling every single material need that citizens across member nations have, we will have to produce and manufacture obscene amounts of products and material possessions. I'm terrified, frankly, with what you're trying to do here. Because it's not socialism that you will be bringing about across the World Assembly, but rampant materialism."

Kevin Mitchell, third-in-line to the post of Delegate-Ambassador, about three hours later: Fuck this fucking tape recorder. Whoever made this couldn't design a sheet of blank paper for toffee... okay, what was I saying? When my friend from Brezzia said he wanted member states to "guarantee private property," he did not mean that all member states provide a universal basic income, or offer every seven-year-old in the World Assembly a packet of crisps every week. Perhaps he would be better off saying that member states should respect the private property held by their inhabitants.

Zylkoven: "Then that should be clarified and changed. The law does as the law says, and currently the resolution does mandate that every seven-years old be handed a pack of crisps whenever they fancy one. That inspires rampant materialism."
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:32 am

Daarwyrth wrote:snip

You can answer in character and be annoying too. It seems that you're using your free time just to entertain your with roleplay. Some people may not be interested in enjoying it, and I am one of them.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:35 am

Brezzia wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:snip

You can answer in character and be annoying too. It seems that you're using your free time just to entertain your with roleplay. Some people may not be interested in enjoying it, and I am one of them.

OOC: Nope, I offered genuine feedback and criticism. Offering commentary in-character is standard in the GA. Regardless, the feedback still stands and the points I mentioned - even if they were in-character - remain flaws within this proposal.
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:40 am

Brezzia wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:snip

You can answer in character and be annoying too. It seems that you're using your free time just to entertain your with roleplay. Some people may not be interested in enjoying it, and I am one of them.

Mitchell: Daarwyrth has a track record of sending snippy, sarcastic ambassadors to this hellscape. Witness Maria vyn Nysen - Alex Smith liked her, I didn't, she got miraculously elevated to the office of Prime Minister about a year after taking office and none of us have heard from her since. Wentapelloven was super-hawkish on compliance issues with the attitude to match. Keysers was the exception; chill bloke, I'm told. Alex called him Special K. How we could do with him back in charge... still, Alex and Lydia are a bit busy but I'm more than happy to get you sorted on the wording if you'd like.
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:48 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Brezzia wrote:You can answer in character and be annoying too. It seems that you're using your free time just to entertain your with roleplay. Some people may not be interested in enjoying it, and I am one of them.

Mitchell: Daarwyrth has a track record of sending snippy, sarcastic ambassadors to this hellscape. Witness Maria vyn Nysen - Alex Smith liked her, I didn't, she got miraculously elevated to the office of Prime Minister about a year after taking office and none of us have heard from her since. Wentapelloven was super-hawkish on compliance issues with the attitude to match. Keysers was the exception; chill bloke, I'm told. Alex called him Special K. How we could do with him back in charge... still, Alex and Lydia are a bit busy but I'm more than happy to get you sorted on the wording if you'd like.

Madelyne smiles, and genuinely so. "The hardness of a mineral determines how well it can leave behind a scratch on a softer material. The harder the mineral, the easier it will leave behind a scratch on what was previously perceived as a flawless surface. Sometimes such hardness is necessary to reveal the flaws that lie hidden beneath a surface."
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Bananaistan
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Postby Bananaistan » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:58 pm

"We would direct the good ambassador's attention to GAR#17 which includes provision that domestic taxation be left entirely in the hands of member states. The above proposal would effectively outlaw many types of taxation unless people are compensated. Being compensated for taxation defeats the purpose of taxation."
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The Two Tharses
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Postby The Two Tharses » Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:29 pm

Brezzia wrote:To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The Brezzian WA delegation submitted a draft to recognize Personal Property.

"Recognition of Personal Property"

Recognizing the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to science and culture, particularly for the purpose of this resolution the rights to food, clothing, housing, educational and artistic materials,

Noticing that unregulated economic initiative can be conducted in conflict with public weal or in such manner that could damage safety, liberty, and human dignity, particularly for the purposes of this resolution with the above rights,

Determined to protect the social function of the above rights from private speculation,

The General Assembly,

  1. Defines "personal property" as the property of:
    1. the income and savings deriving from a person's own work,
    2. housing,
    3. small cultivation, and
    4. goods and objects useful for satisfying the material and cultural needs of the person;
  2. Mandates that Member Nations
    1. recognize and guarantee personal property, and
    2. prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;
  3. Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 2b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from exploiting the work of others;
  4. Allows Member Nations to
    1. determine appropriate planning and controls so that economic activity is given direction and coordinated to social objectives,
    2. prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,
    3. expropriate personal property for reasons of the public weal only in such cases provided for by local law and with provisions for compensation.


"The Two Tharses views this proposal with approval. The Ambassador does however request a clarification on subclause 1c; does a "small cultivation" refer to the amount of food necessary for survival of the individual? And, does it only refer to produce grown by the individuals themselves, or any amount of food currently owned by them, as in, including purchased items? Given its necessity, food would seem to be some of the most personal property that can exist."

Regards, Cathan Dominguez, Ambassador to World Assembly
Last edited by The Two Tharses on Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anne of Cleves in TNP
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Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:45 am

Brezzia wrote:b. avoid that personal property is used to gain profit or is lost to pay debts;

“Ambassador, you know that it is possible for people to temporarily give real estate to others as a full-time job, right?”
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:08 am

To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The Brezzian delegation of WA submitted a second draft for the recognition of Personal Property, introducing the definitions of material and cultural needs and the distinction between personal and private property.

Daarwyrth wrote:The princess sighs upon reading this. "So, member states have to grant everyone in their nation a home, is that correct? Alright, how will the land for that be made available, hmm? Do you mean to say that we have to cut down forests and pave over unique environments so that we can give everyone in Daarwyrth a house? Or would you rather have us cram our citizens together in tiny houses stacked on top of one another in poor conditions to save up space? Because your resolution doesn't specify what conditions "personal propriety" need to exist in, only that it is guaranteed. This way, the personal property that has to be guaranteed can be of poor or even dangerous quality."


WA Member Nations must comply with the provisions of 27 resolutions dealing with environmental issues. This proposal does not allow Member Nations to violate any of these resolutions or future ones.

Chipoli wrote:And why is renting being prohibited? Do you mean to evict anyone currently renting an apartment? What if they can't afford a home? Are they forced to sleep on park benches and streets?

Greater Sirne wrote:I’m more concerned by clause 4b and 4c because it explicitly prohibits mortgages, renting, loans of personal property.

Tinhampton wrote:When my friend from Brezzia said he wanted member states to "guarantee private property," [...] Perhaps he would be better off saying that member states should respect the private property held by their inhabitants, or guarantee the right to own and acquire private property.

Anne of Cleves in TNP wrote:“Ambassador, you know that it is possible for people to temporarily give real estate to others as a full-time job, right?”


The distinction between personal property and private property should resolve the issues set forth by the Respected Ambassadors. The purpose of this proposal is to recognize personal property, which has the purpose of self-sustenance, not private property, which has the purpose of profit instead. This proposal do not ban private property.

The Two Tharses wrote:"The Two Tharses views this proposal with approval. The Ambassador does however request a clarification on subclause 1c; does a "small cultivation" refer to the amount of food necessary for survival of the individual? And, does it only refer to produce grown by the individuals themselves, or any amount of food currently owned by them, as in, including purchased items? Given its necessity, food would seem to be some of the most personal property that can exist."

Yes, "small cultivation" refers to necessary food amount and personal property includes purchased items for personal and family use. We hope the added distinction clarify this aspect.

Bananaistan wrote:"We would direct the good ambassador's attention to GAR#17 which includes provision that domestic taxation be left entirely in the hands of member states. The above proposal would effectively outlaw many types of taxation unless people are compensated. Being compensated for taxation defeats the purpose of taxation."

We aim not to ban taxation in Member Nations and we added compensation only for expropriation. May we ask the GA Secretary for further clarification on how our proposal is incontrasto with resolution GA#17?

We thank you for your contributions and we look forward to your further contributions for new changes to the draft.
WA Ambassador of Brezzia, Carlo A. Van Vera

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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:46 am

Apologies for the previous post, I deleted it as I missed the new version of the draft and provided commentary on an outdated draft. Revised feedback incoming.

prescribe the ways personal property is acquired, enjoyed and its limits in order to ensure its social function and to make it accessible to all;


This remains an open pathway to very authoritarian and draconian laws. Like, can you imagine a state telling you how to enjoy your material property? Sure, I can understand a state making rules as to how property is legally acquired, but most states will already have that. Yet, if there are any limitations and restrictions they need to be beholden to a certain need for them. The resolution text isn't providing that at the moment, and instead gives authoritarian nations free reign to deepen and further their totalitarian regimes.

Requires the extension of the provisions of clause 3b to personal or family working means and tools that cannot be used to obtain profits from from the exploitation of others' work;


Could you explain what exactly this clause is requiring, because I keep re-reading this clause and its meaning continues to elude me.

coordinated to social objectives


What "social objectives"? A member nation's social objectives? The WA's social objectives? The term is vague and offers no clarity. Or do you mean to say "socialist objectives"? Because that will have a very different meaning and impact.

prohibit renting, sharecropping, mortgage loans of personal property,


Okay, I see what you're doing here with the revised version and the split between personal and private property. Yet, this will still cause problems. Suppose there is a house owner who is renting out rooms to students in a city (a common practice in the Netherlands for example), yet the house owner also lives within the house themselves. In other words, the house is a mixture between personal and private property; what then? Does he need to kick out all the students and put them on the street? This example focuses on housing, but there are other cases where property can be - under the terms of your proposal - both personal and private. It leaves me to question why there needs to be a ban on this? If someone wishes to rent out their property, why should they be banned from handling their property the way they wish?
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
The Royal State of Daarwyrth
Forest's Minister of Foreign Affairs

Leader: Queen Demi Maria I | Capital: Daarsted | Current year: 2022 CE
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Brezzia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Brezzia » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:09 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:Apologies for the previous post, I deleted it as I missed the new version of the draft and provided commentary on an outdated draft. Revised feedback incoming.

Thanks for you apologies. I noticed that your previous post wasn't considering the new definitions.
Last edited by Brezzia on Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
WA Ambassador of Brezzia, Carlo A. Van Vera

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Anne of Cleves in TNP
Envoy
 
Posts: 317
Founded: Aug 12, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:09 pm

Brezzia wrote:
Anne of Cleves in TNP wrote:“Ambassador, you know that it is possible for people to temporarily give real estate to others as a full-time job, right?”


The distinction between personal property and private property should resolve the issues set forth by the Respected Ambassadors. The purpose of this proposal is to recognize personal property, which has the purpose of self-sustenance, not private property, which has the purpose of profit instead. This proposal do not ban private property.


“Hmm…I should brush up on my property types more often. Thanks for the clarification, I will review your new draft later.”
-Ms. Charlotte Schafer, WA Ambassador for the Clevesian Empire
IC Name: The Clevesian Empire
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IC WA Ambassador: Ms. Charlotte Schafer
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Daarwyrth
Minister
 
Posts: 2370
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:21 pm

Brezzia wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:Apologies for the previous post, I deleted it as I missed the new version of the draft and provided commentary on an outdated draft. Revised feedback incoming.

Thanks for you apologies. I noticed that your previous post wasn't considering the new definitions.

This has been rectified, and the post you quoted contains relevant feedback and commentary now.
The Royal State of Daarwyrth
Forest's Minister of Foreign Affairs

Leader: Queen Demi Maria I | Capital: Daarsted | Current year: 2022 CE
  • Daarwyrth
  • Uylensted
  • Kentauria
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  • Dutch with Polish roots
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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 4234
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:29 pm

"If I understand your object properly, Ambassador, it would be helpful to alter 1(a)(iii) to something like '...agriculture for subsistence or personal enjoyment...'"

"This would protect your herb garden, flower bed, goat pen, even all the way up to your village commons if communally managed that way, while leaving cash crops and commodified production outside those protections."
Last edited by Sierra Lyricalia on Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brezzia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Brezzia » Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:00 pm

To the Respectable Ambassadors and Representatives in the World Assembly,

The third draft for the recognition of Personal Property, adds the definitions of "social function" and "social objective". The definition of "personal property" is now a separated article.

Daarwyrth wrote:This remains an open pathway to very authoritarian and draconian laws. Like, can you imagine a state telling you how to enjoy your material property? Sure, I can understand a state making rules as to how property is legally acquired, but most states will already have that. Yet, if there are any limitations and restrictions they need to be beholden to a certain need for them. The resolution text isn't providing that at the moment, and instead gives authoritarian nations free reign to deepen and further their totalitarian regimes.

"How to enjoy" doesn't obiously means how you drink water, but means you cannot own a piece and bury waste there or burn all the trees in a landslide-prone area, or leave your apartment in such a poor hygienic condition that it endangers even your neighbors. "It's mine and I do whatever I want with it" sounds nice but can harm others. Surely most states already have rules to acquire property, but there are no WA resolutions that impose the existence of these rules, which can avoid economic speculation on essential stuff in the case of personal property.

The text indicates ensuring the "social function" and making personal property accessible to all as the aims of laws about acquiring, enjoyment and limitation of personal property. This is not giving any justification to corrupt governments (that probably do not care about international resolutions at all). It's true that this text allows draconian legislations neccessary in critical periods: if an afflicted nation enact rationing during war, famine and drought, I think it is right not to put it out of international law.

Daarwyrth wrote:Could you explain what exactly this clause is requiring, because I keep re-reading this clause and its meaning continues to elude me.

"Working means and tools" are not considered personal property in the proposal definition. This clause aims for these objects that do not fit on the definition of clause 2d to be acquired, enjoyed, and limited like personal property, even though they are not part of it, if they're purpose is not a private economic activity with employees.

Daarwyrth wrote:What "social objectives"? A member nation's social objectives? The WA's social objectives? The term is vague and offers no clarity. Or do you mean to say "socialist objectives"? Because that will have a very different meaning and impact.

The definition of "social objective" has been added: "a desired outcome of a project to improve human well-being and interaction of individuals, groups, and institutions within a society;".

Daarwyrth wrote:Okay, I see what you're doing here with the revised version and the split between personal and private property. Yet, this will still cause problems. Suppose there is a house owner who is renting out rooms to students in a city (a common practice in the Netherlands for example), yet the house owner also lives within the house themselves. In other words, the house is a mixture between personal and private property; what then? Does he need to kick out all the students and put them on the street? This example focuses on housing, but there are other cases where property can be - under the terms of your proposal - both personal and private. It leaves me to question why there needs to be a ban on this? If someone wishes to rent out their property, why should they be banned from handling their property the way they wish?

This is an example of how a property is enjoyed: the owner uses his/her personal property (the house where he/she lives) to make a profit out of it. The rent from the students is not the result of the owner's work, so it's not a personal property but a private property. A country that accepts private property (such as the Netherlands) may considere this enjoyment lawful, because personal property accessible to all could be ensured also thought private economic initiative; on the other hand, a country that does not allow private property may not considere this enjoyment lawful, because personal property accessible to all must be ensured with state intervention, including a house for those students.

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"If I understand your object properly, Ambassador, it would be helpful to alter 1(a)(iii) to something like '...agriculture for subsistence or personal enjoyment...'"

"This would protect your herb garden, flower bed, goat pen, even all the way up to your village commons if communally managed that way, while leaving cash crops and commodified production outside those protections."

Hobbies such as gardening fall under the definition of "cultural needs" (entertainment). The new clause 2 should better specify the purposes of small agricultural property.

Bananaistan wrote:"We would direct the good ambassador's attention to GAR#17 which includes provision that domestic taxation be left entirely in the hands of member states. The above proposal would effectively outlaw many types of taxation unless people are compensated. Being compensated for taxation defeats the purpose of taxation."

The delegation believes that this draft does not conflict with GAR#17. We seek the opinion of the Respected Secretary on this matter.

We continue to thank you for your contributions.
WA Ambassador of Brezzia, Carlo A. Van Vera

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