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Tutti a casa! Italian political elections, 2022

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Risottia
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Tutti a casa! Italian political elections, 2022

Postby Risottia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:39 am

So, following a four-year-and-a-half of the dumbest Parliament ever seen under the Alps, the Italian right-wing coalition (post-fascist Fratelli d'Italia, right-populist Lega Nord and Berlusconi's Forza Italia) has taken the chance to reform around the dumbest crisis ever, triggered by key party M5S (centre-populist) over a bylaw about a garbage incinerator in Rome.
Mario Draghi, President of the Council of Ministers and former top chief of the ECB, has been caught in a cross-fire of vetoes between LN and FI on one side, and M5S on the other, which prevented him from getting a new majority for his national unity cabinet, which was supposed to run until next spring. His former cabinet, which included every party, from left-wing LEU to Lega Nord - with the sole exception of FdI, has been forced by the lack of a new political majority in the Senate (but curiously not by an explicit vote of no confidence) into resigning.
President of the Republic Sergio Mattarella was left with no other option but to accept Draghi's resignation (he and his cabinet will stay as caretaker until a new cabinet can be formed), and has decided to dismiss the Parliament and call for snap elections, which will be held on September 25th most likely. It is a unicum for Italy: generally, political elections are held in late spring, with the exception of a late winter election in 2013; the last time political elections were held in autumn was, well, in 1919 (bit worrying, innit). This means the new cabinet, which will take some weeks to be formed, will have very little time to write the laws that must be approved within the year, such as the Finance Law - so they will have to rely on the preparatory work done by the Draghi cabinet anyway.

The Italian political landscape is extremely fragmented and the fragmentation is increasing by the hour.
Weeks ago, M5S was split in two between former PM Conte and FM Di Maio over the support for Draghi.
Today, some key MPs of Forza Italia (including minister Brunetta, former ministers Gelmini and Carfagna) left because they feel Berlusconi's party is becoming way too aligned with Meloni's Fratelli d'Italia. Meloni's party is polled to be the most voted party, with something around 23% of the votes.
Until yesterday, centre-of-left PD (polling second) was trying to build a structural alliance with Conte's M5S, Di Maio's new party, and LEU , but now Conte's choices are making that very unlikely.
At the centre sit former PM's Renzi party (a splinter fraction from PD) and some minor movements, which could still be decisive in some seats, given the new electoral law.
FM Di Maio accused Conte and LN's Salvini of favouring Putin by undermining the stability of Italy and of the EU.
LN accused Draghi of being too much receptive to PD's ideas over a minimum wage, over citizenship for immigrants, and over cannabis legalisation.

As for myself, I wonder how the fuck we Italians (well, our MPs, actually, and not every one of them, but hey, "we" "elected" them) managed to lose a PM like Draghi - whose CV, competence and international respect would make him a likely candidate for... well basically any governmental post anywhere, ranging from the UN to the EU to the IMF - over a fucking garbage incinerator, and that's after losing the possibility of having him as a President of the Republic in 2021.

Things look grim. A FdI-LN-FI cabinet isn't an unlikely possibility. Which would mean having a basically fascist PM (Giorgia Meloni) aided by Putin's long-time friends Salvini and Berlusconi.

Comment away.

Oh, and I'll fucking turn into casu marzu whoever makes a hawaiian pizza or cream-peas-carbonara joke. Italian politics is a joke, food isn't. :eyebrow:
Last edited by Risottia on Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:45 am

That’s no lie on the food. I did a drive through Tuscany once. It taught me me how bad American produce tasted…..
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Malacanos
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Postby Malacanos » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:38 pm

What leftist parties are there, and I don't mean center-left? What happened to the good ol' days of a powerful leftist bloc in Italian politics?
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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:59 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:That’s no lie on the food. I did a drive through Tuscany once. It taught me me how bad American produce tasted…..


Yeah, the food in Italy is pretty amazing. I actually like it more than France.

Anyway Draghi is from a rich banking family so I always feel he owes his rise to nepotism. He also needed the Fed to open swap lines to save the Euro when he was in charge of the ECB - as I recall - and I therefore don’t think he handled the Greek crisis in a way that showed any particular originality or genius. Consequently I don’t rate him TBH. He’s just another politician except that he styles himself a “technocrat”.

Whether or not Lagarde’s antifragmention plan works is probably a bigger thing right now than whoever is the next short term PM. And I don’t expect his successors successor to last long either because Italy.
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Arisyan
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Postby Arisyan » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:06 pm

I have absolutely no clue if Possible, Article One, Italian Left and Green Europe are running a joint list or are running independently. Could someone please clarify?

In any case I hope they make it into parliament and I pray that the "centre"-right coalition does not win because it will put a post-fascist into power. We all know how well that goes.
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Thomasi
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Postby Thomasi » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:19 pm

2000 mayors 3 days ago begged Mario not to resign saying "We need Stability" Basically Italian politics is a mess, 66 governments since 1946. It's a complete mess.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:28 pm

Going off the exactly one article I've read about the matter, it looks like Meloni's softened a bit on some key issues? Italian politics is sufficiently undercovered around these parts that I still thought FdI was something approaching Lega+ until five-ish hours ago
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Poopahoopta
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Postby Poopahoopta » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:32 pm

I just hope that they manage to free themselves from the European Union.

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:30 pm

im hoping that the secessionist movements prevail and the whole state of italy is finally ended
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:33 pm

Malacanos wrote:What leftist parties are there, and I don't mean center-left? What happened to the good ol' days of a powerful leftist bloc in Italian politics?

The only party with parliamentary representation that's to the left of PD is Liberi E Uguali (LEU), which includes a lot of left-wing splinters from PD, Communist Refoundation, etc.
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Hiram Land
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Postby Hiram Land » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:33 pm

Augh, Italy's having another election because of a garbage incinerator. Please tell me this was part of the script.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:35 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:im hoping that the secessionist movements prevail and the whole state of italy is finally ended

Thank you, I wish a civil war unto your country too.

Poopahoopta wrote:I just hope that they manage to free themselves from the European Union.

Considering how we founded it and it saved our collective asses more than once, that idiotic idea is largely minoritarian.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:38 pm

Kerwa wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:That’s no lie on the food. I did a drive through Tuscany once. It taught me me how bad American produce tasted…..


Yeah, the food in Italy is pretty amazing. I actually like it more than France.

Anyway Draghi is from a rich banking family so I always feel he owes his rise to nepotism.

He lost his father and his mother before coming of age. Also, working for Bank of Italy makes one a highly-paid civil servant, not a "rich banking family".
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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:49 pm

All this over trash disposal...well, given the polls, I have to agree that a Right Wing coalition is the most likely outcome, alas. As for who I'm standing with, I'm going for Nuove Energie as I've yet to see a more traditional Green Party in Italy.
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:48 am

Risottia wrote:given the new electoral law.


What changes were made to Italy's electoral system?

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:11 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Risottia wrote:given the new electoral law.


What changes were made to Italy's electoral system?


A massive reduction in seats in both Houses, something Italians have actually wanted for a long time. The Chamber's been reduced from 630 seats to 400, and the Senate's been reduced from 315 to 200.
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Major-Tom
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:49 pm

With due respect to Italians, I think y'all are screwed either way. Abstain. I've had exes less messy than the Italian political system.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:45 pm

Major-Tom wrote:With due respect to Italians, I think y'all are screwed either way. Abstain. I've had exes less messy than the Italian political system.


There's plenty of smaller parties they could choose to prop up. Volt Italia, my own preference of Nuove Energie, Art.1, Italexit, and so on.
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Thomasi
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Postby Thomasi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:07 pm

Italy could make things a lot simpler by simply

Having the Regional governments appoint members of their parliaments into the federal senate.

&

Having the House of Deputies elected via proportional representation.

Maybe it would stabilize the country?

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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:18 pm

Thomasi wrote:Italy could make things a lot simpler by simply

Having the Regional governments appoint members of their parliaments into the federal senate.

&

Having the House of Deputies elected via proportional representation.

Maybe it would stabilize the country?


253 of the 400 deputies are already chosen via PR, 147(including the 8 expat seats) are chosen through FPTP. In a similar vein, 126 Senators are chosen via PR, 74 are FPTP, and there are also 5 ex officio Senators for life as well as all surviving former Presidents.
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Thomasi
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Postby Thomasi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:22 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Thomasi wrote:Italy could make things a lot simpler by simply

Having the Regional governments appoint members of their parliaments into the federal senate.

&

Having the House of Deputies elected via proportional representation.

Maybe it would stabilize the country?


253 of the 400 deputies are already chosen via PR, 147(including the 8 expat seats) are chosen through FPTP. In a similar vein, 126 Senators are chosen via PR, 74 are FPTP, and there are also 5 ex officio Senators for life as well as all surviving former Presidents.


That sounds like a mess and why stable governments can't form. Tbh both houses seem redundant especially since the senate is proportional based on the population of the regions.

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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:25 pm

Thomasi wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
253 of the 400 deputies are already chosen via PR, 147(including the 8 expat seats) are chosen through FPTP. In a similar vein, 126 Senators are chosen via PR, 74 are FPTP, and there are also 5 ex officio Senators for life as well as all surviving former Presidents.


That sounds like a mess and why stable governments can't form. Tbh both houses seem redundant especially since the senate is proportional based on the population of the regions.


No messier than Germany's MMP legislature. The main reason why stable governments can't form in Italy has more to do with internal intrigues within a government rather than external differences between parties. This, by the way, is also why PMs in more recent years tend to be independent technocrats rather than leaders of political parties.
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Thomasi
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Postby Thomasi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:36 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Thomasi wrote:
That sounds like a mess and why stable governments can't form. Tbh both houses seem redundant especially since the senate is proportional based on the population of the regions.


No messier than Germany's MMP legislature. The main reason why stable governments can't form in Italy has more to do with internal intrigues within a government rather than external differences between parties. This, by the way, is also why PMs in more recent years tend to be independent technocrats rather than leaders of political parties.


One key difference is that in Germany the upper house can't actually block legislation they can only veto it.

So basically the German states get 3-6 seats each based on population, and they are delegate members to represent the state government.

The President is elected via the the lower house and an equal number chosen by the state governments.

The Lower House is MMP which works because it guarantees proportionality of the chamber.

So basically for the Upper House to veto legislation they must have a higher percentage of Nein votes than the lower houses Ja votes on revote.

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Bienenhalde
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Bienenhalde » Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:25 am

Shrillland wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:With due respect to Italians, I think y'all are screwed either way. Abstain. I've had exes less messy than the Italian political system.


There's plenty of smaller parties they could choose to prop up. Volt Italia, my own preference of Nuove Energie, Art.1, Italexit, and so on.


Isn't the recent change in the constitution likely to hurt smaller political parties?

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Shrillland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:06 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
There's plenty of smaller parties they could choose to prop up. Volt Italia, my own preference of Nuove Energie, Art.1, Italexit, and so on.


Isn't the recent change in the constitution likely to hurt smaller political parties?


Especially small ones, yes, But the people have wanted this since at least the Mani Pulite, they saw Parliament as too sprawling, too expensive, and too inefficient and open to corruption.
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