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[ABANDONED] Morality in Education

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Fuso-
Envoy
 
Posts: 202
Founded: May 08, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fuso- » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm

From: The Office for Relations with Savages and Barbarians
To: The barbarian author attempting to install their morality in the world assembly


Heathens
The Empire of Fusō presents her sincere greetings to you on this auspicious eighth day of the Month of Erudition, of the 2,682nd Year since the Reign of Jimmu, and congratulates you on your attempt to install heathen mores onto a heathen forum. We wish you the very best of luck in your future struggles.
Last edited by Fuso- on Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Macadia
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Posts: 66
Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:05 pm

Fuso- wrote:
From: The Ministry for Relations with Savages and Barbarians
To: The barbarian author attempting to install their morality in the world assembly


Heathens
The Empire of Fusō presents her sincere greetings to you on this auspicious eighth day of the Month of Erudition, of the 2,682nd Year since the Reign of Jimmu, and congratulates you on your attempt to install heathen mores onto a heathen forum. We wish you the very best of luck in your future struggles.

“I’m sorry was this supposed to be some sort of insult? This draft is abandoned, I believe I informed all ambassadors earlier, I’m terribly sorry if you missed that announcement. Also, make sure to send any further communications through your proper ministry, thanks.”
Last edited by Macadia on Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leader: Ronald Ambridge
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Daarwyrth
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:42 am

Macadia wrote:“Unfortunately, Ambassador, our decision has been commended by the few who can see just how greatly the World Assembly has erred. This draft has been scrapped, and this is just a sad attempt to make us feel bad for protecting the freedom of conscience every student should enjoy.”

“No matter what you may say, Macadia will endure.”

OOC: I will address this OOC'ly as I notice you have also tagged me in messages on the RMB of your region. Please note that my reply was entirely in-character and reflects the thoughts and feelings of my WA Representative character, not me as the player behind the character. That said, considering the resolutions "Administrative Compliance Act" and "Compliance Commission", it is not a prudent course of action to declare yourself non-compliant. Because what does this mean? Since you declared your nation non-compliant, your nation has effectively become a third-world country in the eyes of most if not all WA nations, as the sanctions that are put in place on non-compliant nations are meant to be economically devastating. While you may not roleplay yourself as a country with a ruined economy, this is effectively what is happening to your nation. The World Assembly is not a "be free to opt-in" organisation. If you join, you are bound by all resolutions.

In addition, you're not the first nation who tried this route of non-compliance. The topic has been talked about and discussed ad nauseam. You're not being sneaky, you're not being clever, you're not defying the WA, you're just shooting yourself in the leg by willingly labelling yourself an outcast in the community. If you don't want to be bound to the WA laws, then don't become a member. If you don't like the WA's policies, don't become a member. If you want complete and total freedom in how your nation is governed and ruled, don't become a member. It's simple really: compliance is not optional, it's mandatory. And yes, you may hear a slight tone of exasperation in my writing because at this point non-compliant nations are the dullest kind to engage with. Why? Because most of the nations that declare themselves non-compliant don't have the guts to own their non-compliance and roleplay their nation as a heavily sanctioned nation. The funny thing, however, is that in terms of game mechanics your country is bound by WA legislation as long as you are a member, regardless of how many statements of non-compliance you put up. So, consider your position: is it worth it to make yourself a pariah in the community just because there's one law that you don't like? And if it is so offensive to you, then perhaps you should consider leaving the WA.

To give you a few examples of what happens when players mark themselves as non-compliant, here is an example, and here another example.
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Attempted Socialism
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:01 am

To expand on Daarwyrths point just a bit, the WA is at its core a game with rules. It's a highly social and political game, but don't miss the underlying buy-in that it shares with all games: Accepting the rules and norms of the game if you want to play. If you sit down to play a board game with dice, and you state up-front that you will move the dice after rolling, to change the result if you don't like it, who would play with you? If you play a sport with a score and you openly say you won't count the opponents' points, who would play with you? Compliance with resolutions you don't like, and adhering to rules still in effect, are two basic buy-ins that are required to play the WA game. I massively dislike having to recognise foreign patents, which means respecting their ownership over those means of production, but it's a gross injustice I have to swallow until it's repealed. But if I want to play the WA game, I have to, if I want my voice to mean anything and if I want others to follow resolutions that I have supported, campaigned for, or written. You can ignore the WA (Though it has stat effects) if you only want the influence or regional politics -- plenty do -- but it also means the active WA members will ignore you; act as if you don't exist in the WA game.


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Macadia
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Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:12 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Macadia wrote:“Unfortunately, Ambassador, our decision has been commended by the few who can see just how greatly the World Assembly has erred. This draft has been scrapped, and this is just a sad attempt to make us feel bad for protecting the freedom of conscience every student should enjoy.”

“No matter what you may say, Macadia will endure.”

OOC: I will address this OOC'ly as I notice you have also tagged me in messages on the RMB of your region. Please note that my reply was entirely in-character and reflects the thoughts and feelings of my WA Representative character, not me as the player behind the character. That said, considering the resolutions "Administrative Compliance Act" and "Compliance Commission", it is not a prudent course of action to declare yourself non-compliant. Because what does this mean? Since you declared your nation non-compliant, your nation has effectively become a third-world country in the eyes of most if not all WA nations, as the sanctions that are put in place on non-compliant nations are meant to be economically devastating. While you may not roleplay yourself as a country with a ruined economy, this is effectively what is happening to your nation. The World Assembly is not a "be free to opt-in" organisation. If you join, you are bound by all resolutions.

In addition, you're not the first nation who tried this route of non-compliance. The topic has been talked about and discussed ad nauseam. You're not being sneaky, you're not being clever, you're not defying the WA, you're just shooting yourself in the leg by willingly labelling yourself an outcast in the community. If you don't want to be bound to the WA laws, then don't become a member. If you don't like the WA's policies, don't become a member. If you want complete and total freedom in how your nation is governed and ruled, don't become a member. It's simple really: compliance is not optional, it's mandatory. And yes, you may hear a slight tone of exasperation in my writing because at this point non-compliant nations are the dullest kind to engage with. Why? Because most of the nations that declare themselves non-compliant don't have the guts to own their non-compliance and roleplay their nation as a heavily sanctioned nation. The funny thing, however, is that in terms of game mechanics your country is bound by WA legislation as long as you are a member, regardless of how many statements of non-compliance you put up. So, consider your position: is it worth it to make yourself a pariah in the community just because there's one law that you don't like? And if it is so offensive to you, then perhaps you should consider leaving the WA.

To give you a few examples of what happens when players mark themselves as non-compliant, here is an example, and here another example.

Since this is OOC, I was assured by many that you’d be the only real nation who would even try to sanction me, trust me, as a nation in a semi-large region with plenty of important-enough nations, you’d think people would actually care about my decision, I’ve hardly interacted with your own nation in the past, so it’s not like I rely on trade with you IC or anything. No nation I know, or interact with frequently has even attempted to sanction me. My act of defiance, no matter how foolish you believe it to be, us just that, mine. I won’t throw my nation into economic calamity for your enjoyment just because I’ve already made myself a “pariah.” All due respect of course.
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Daarwyrth
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:17 pm

Macadia wrote:Since this is OOC, I was assured by many that you’d be the only real nation who would even try to sanction me, trust me, as a nation in a semi-large region with plenty of important-enough nations, you’d think people would actually care about my decision, I’ve hardly interacted with your own nation in the past, so it’s not like I rely on trade with you IC or anything. No nation I know, or interact with frequently has even attempted to sanction me. My act of defiance, no matter how foolish you believe it to be, us just that, mine. I won’t throw my nation into economic calamity for your enjoyment just because I’ve already made myself a “pariah.” All due respect of course.

OOC: In the eyes of the WA you have already thrown yourself into economic calamity. Sure, you may not acknowledge it, but it is how the WA is roleplayed. I believe that you have not even bothered to read the two resolutions that I have linked for your convenience. It's not just my nation that is involved, it's all member nations of the WA:

Article III. General Accounting Office

1. The World Assembly tasks the GAO with collecting all IAO fines and crediting them against the required contribution amount due from members found compliant during the same assessment period.

Article IV. Member State Rights and Duties

1. Every inhabitant of a member state is entitled to an effective remedy against their state for all injuries to their person, property, or character by having recourse in law or equity for any right, made explicitly or implicitly by a restriction on member states, created by World Assembly law.

2. Member states may not prevent or discourage individuals or entities from cooperating with the WASO, nor from asserting any other right in this resolution, subject only to reasonable justiciability restrictions.

3. Member states may have a representative and legal counsel present at IAO hearings to act in their defense.

4. Member states must enforce the strongest sanctions available against those member states that refuse to pay IAO fines, subject only to the limitations of extant law, until the fines are paid or the issue becomes moot.

5. Member states must cooperate fully with, and not restrict or frustrate the actions of, all World Assembly committees referenced in this resolution.


As you can see, per Administrative Compliance Act all nations in the World Assembly are compelled to cooperate in sanctions and so on. Unfortunately, it seems that those who advised you in your region aren't as aware of WA legislation as they should be.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Macadia
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Posts: 66
Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:22 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Macadia wrote:Since this is OOC, I was assured by many that you’d be the only real nation who would even try to sanction me, trust me, as a nation in a semi-large region with plenty of important-enough nations, you’d think people would actually care about my decision, I’ve hardly interacted with your own nation in the past, so it’s not like I rely on trade with you IC or anything. No nation I know, or interact with frequently has even attempted to sanction me. My act of defiance, no matter how foolish you believe it to be, us just that, mine. I won’t throw my nation into economic calamity for your enjoyment just because I’ve already made myself a “pariah.” All due respect of course.

OOC: In the eyes of the WA you have already thrown yourself into economic calamity. Sure, you may not acknowledge it, but it is how the WA is roleplayed. I believe that you have not even bothered to read the two resolutions that I have linked for your convenience. It's not just my nation that is involved, it's all member nations of the WA:

Article III. General Accounting Office

1. The World Assembly tasks the GAO with collecting all IAO fines and crediting them against the required contribution amount due from members found compliant during the same assessment period.

Article IV. Member State Rights and Duties

1. Every inhabitant of a member state is entitled to an effective remedy against their state for all injuries to their person, property, or character by having recourse in law or equity for any right, made explicitly or implicitly by a restriction on member states, created by World Assembly law.

2. Member states may not prevent or discourage individuals or entities from cooperating with the WASO, nor from asserting any other right in this resolution, subject only to reasonable justiciability restrictions.

3. Member states may have a representative and legal counsel present at IAO hearings to act in their defense.

4. Member states must enforce the strongest sanctions available against those member states that refuse to pay IAO fines, subject only to the limitations of extant law, until the fines are paid or the issue becomes moot.

5. Member states must cooperate fully with, and not restrict or frustrate the actions of, all World Assembly committees referenced in this resolution.


As you can see, per Administrative Compliance Act all nations in the World Assembly are compelled to cooperate in sanctions etc.

Now, I understand what you’re trying to get at, but still, paraphrasing what you said earlier, as I’m letting the whole world know of it, you’d think action, by the GAO, or any other committee, would come sooner. I guess they don’t have the time to look at every nation and check if they’re compliant though. Still I haven’t seen any sanctions levied.
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Daarwyrth
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:29 pm

Macadia wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:OOC: In the eyes of the WA you have already thrown yourself into economic calamity. Sure, you may not acknowledge it, but it is how the WA is roleplayed. I believe that you have not even bothered to read the two resolutions that I have linked for your convenience. It's not just my nation that is involved, it's all member nations of the WA:



As you can see, per Administrative Compliance Act all nations in the World Assembly are compelled to cooperate in sanctions etc.

Now, I understand what you’re trying to get at, but still, paraphrasing what you said earlier, as I’m letting the whole world know of it, you’d think action, by the GAO, or any other committee, would come sooner. I guess they don’t have the time to look at every nation and check if they’re compliant though. Still I haven’t seen any sanctions levied.

OOC: Your nation is being sanctioned as we speak. It's part of the roleplay you agree to if you are a part of the World Assembly. Since you have posted your statement of non-compliance, every nation in the World Assembly sees you as nation that is under heavy and severe sanctions which "will reasonably coerce compliance from member states". Is this a formal thing that happens? No, it's part of the roleplay, but you have no ability to stop other nations from roleplaying your nation as a country with a failed and collapsed economy because of the sanctions and penalties levied against you.

So, what will you actually experience? You'll be shunned by most if not all of the WA community. You come into our organisation, yet you refuse to play by the rules that everyone else has agreed to. It comes across as infantile, if you'll forgive me the bluntness. I suggest you reread the comments made by Attempted Socialism, yet I fear their words will not reach you or bring you understanding. As such, I will put words into action and put you on my ignore list. If you can't engage with this part of the game maturely, there's no sense in continuing any interactions.
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Current year: 2022 CE | Monarch: Queen Demi Maria I | Prime Minister: Dame Maria vyn Nysen | Capital: Daarsted | Government type: Unitary democratic executive constitutional monarchy | Technology level: Post-modern tech
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Imperium Anglorum
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 11600
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:57 pm

OOC. If you are a roleplayer, you have to accept the roleplay consequences and the roleplay you opted into. If you are not a roleplayer and you think only in terms of game mechanics, compliance is fully automatic, basically magical, and literally cannot be avoided. Pick one.

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Macadia
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Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:31 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Macadia wrote:Now, I understand what you’re trying to get at, but still, paraphrasing what you said earlier, as I’m letting the whole world know of it, you’d think action, by the GAO, or any other committee, would come sooner. I guess they don’t have the time to look at every nation and check if they’re compliant though. Still I haven’t seen any sanctions levied.

OOC: Your nation is being sanctioned as we speak. It's part of the roleplay you agree to if you are a part of the World Assembly. Since you have posted your statement of non-compliance, every nation in the World Assembly sees you as nation that is under heavy and severe sanctions which "will reasonably coerce compliance from member states". Is this a formal thing that happens? No, it's part of the roleplay, but you have no ability to stop other nations from roleplaying your nation as a country with a failed and collapsed economy because of the sanctions and penalties levied against you.

So, what will you actually experience? You'll be shunned by most if not all of the WA community. You come into our organisation, yet you refuse to play by the rules that everyone else has agreed to. It comes across as infantile, if you'll forgive me the bluntness. I suggest you reread the comments made by Attempted Socialism, yet I fear their words will not reach you or bring you understanding. As such, I will put words into action and put you on my ignore list. If you can't engage with this part of the game maturely, there's no sense in continuing any interactions.

See, thus far you’re the only nation I’ve spoken too that is rping me as a nation in economic downturn do to sanctions, you can claim that the entire WA is shunning me, but none of that has truly come to fruition. Please do ignore me from now on, as our interaction since you mocked me IC has only become more and more unpleasant. Thank you.
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Macadia
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Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:33 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:OOC. If you are a roleplayer, you have to accept the roleplay consequences and the roleplay you opted into. If you are not a roleplayer and you think only in terms of game mechanics, compliance is fully automatic, basically magical, and literally cannot be avoided. Pick one.

All due respect but I believe you two to be the only nations even trying to make it so that my nation has to accept economic sanctions and collapse that hasn’t happened yet, and won’t so long as other nations continue friendly relations, even if they’re in the WA, as I’ve seen from others near and far.
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:38 am

OOC: Right, at this point this player has made it quite clear they aren't interested in playing the game as the rest of us do. I suggest simply ignoring them from here on out.
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Macadia
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Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:14 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Right, at this point this player has made it quite clear they aren't interested in playing the game as the rest of us do. I suggest simply ignoring them from here on out.

I hope this is the last post made here, for all intents and purposes this proposal is dead, and if you care about sanctioning me and my non-compliance, you can telegram me.

classic GA secretariats…
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Untecna
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Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Untecna » Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:43 pm

Macadia wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:OOC. If you are a roleplayer, you have to accept the roleplay consequences and the roleplay you opted into. If you are not a roleplayer and you think only in terms of game mechanics, compliance is fully automatic, basically magical, and literally cannot be avoided. Pick one.

All due respect but I believe you two to be the only nations even trying to make it so that my nation has to accept economic sanctions and collapse that hasn’t happened yet, and won’t so long as other nations continue friendly relations, even if they’re in the WA, as I’ve seen from others near and far.

Speaking from experience, most actives here generally do that.

Such experience being the exact same behavior you are doing now.
Last edited by Untecna on Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Macadia
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Postby Macadia » Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:48 pm

Untecna wrote:
Macadia wrote:All due respect but I believe you two to be the only nations even trying to make it so that my nation has to accept economic sanctions and collapse that hasn’t happened yet, and won’t so long as other nations continue friendly relations, even if they’re in the WA, as I’ve seen from others near and far.

Speaking from experience, most actives here generally do that.

Such experience being the exact same behavior you are doing now.

Hi there, your post sort of confused me, could you say it in a way that I understand? What do actives do?
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:53 pm

Macadia wrote:
Untecna wrote:Speaking from experience, most actives here generally do that.

Such experience being the exact same behavior you are doing now.

Hi there, your post sort of confused me, could you say it in a way that I understand? What do actives do?

Tell people that they are being sanctioned for that kind of behavior.

If you don't pick it up now, you'll gain the experience and change the behavior...
Californian

Dragon with internet access

Unironically still in NSG discussions, now turned to slight shitposting to make it fun for everyone else me and me only.

I'm queer

Heloin's, perhaps, unwanted accountant

Don't use my old posts to judge me, I was cringe af

Naan Violence, y'all.

Political Beliefs
TL;DR: I'm a democratic socialist. Surprise Surprise, I don't support genocide or violence.

Go 49rs

Untecna wrote:No, and you can talk to my dragon lawyers if you dragon want me to dragon shut up.

Hemakral wrote:damn bro that wall so thick kool-aid man couldn't bust through

[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.

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Macadia
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Founded: Feb 25, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Macadia » Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:56 pm

Untecna wrote:
Macadia wrote:Hi there, your post sort of confused me, could you say it in a way that I understand? What do actives do?

Tell people that they are being sanctioned for that kind of behavior.

If you don't pick it up now, you'll gain the experience and change the behavior...

Unless you plan on sanctioning me, this really won’t be happening.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:02 pm

Macadia wrote:
Untecna wrote:Tell people that they are being sanctioned for that kind of behavior.

If you don't pick it up now, you'll gain the experience and change the behavior...

Unless you plan on sanctioning me, this really won’t be happening.

Well, I suppose I'll be sanctioning you then. You know, in compliance with WA resolution.
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Unironically still in NSG discussions, now turned to slight shitposting to make it fun for everyone else me and me only.

I'm queer

Heloin's, perhaps, unwanted accountant

Don't use my old posts to judge me, I was cringe af

Naan Violence, y'all.

Political Beliefs
TL;DR: I'm a democratic socialist. Surprise Surprise, I don't support genocide or violence.

Go 49rs

Untecna wrote:No, and you can talk to my dragon lawyers if you dragon want me to dragon shut up.

Hemakral wrote:damn bro that wall so thick kool-aid man couldn't bust through

[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.

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Macadia
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Postby Macadia » Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:14 pm

Untecna wrote:
Macadia wrote:Unless you plan on sanctioning me, this really won’t be happening.

Well, I suppose I'll be sanctioning you then. You know, in compliance with WA resolution.

Sorry, didn’t see this, make sure to write a telegram to our capital, we’ll deal with that there, thanks.
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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16807
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:31 am

Macadia wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Right, at this point this player has made it quite clear they aren't interested in playing the game as the rest of us do. I suggest simply ignoring them from here on out.

I hope this is the last post made here, for all intents and purposes this proposal is dead, and if you care about sanctioning me and my non-compliance, you can telegram me.

classic GA secretariats…

OoC: that's not how it works here. You agreed to play the GA game. That means you agree to play by the shared roleplay. Which you now know about and cannot claim ignorance.

Players are expected to, ICly, recognize and practice the consequences of blatant noncompliance: crippling economic sanctions. There's no qualification of being told this by players to trigger it: if you are openly non-compliant, the shared roleplay expectation is that you accept the consequences.

We, as players, have no reason to play with somebody who ignores the shared roleplay expectations. If you ignore them, your input will just be ignored. That's obviously not something you want if you want to play this part of the game.

Classic gensec indeed, commenting to clarify your mistake. Isn't it awful how we share how the game works with players who are ignorant of the complexities lying beneath the surface? Whether your proposal is dead or not, now you've been told. In public, even. You are no longer ignorant of this subtlety and cannot claim ignorance as a defense.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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