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Has raider-defender conflict axis changed?

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Saksoni
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Has raider-defender conflict axis changed?

Postby Saksoni » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:00 am

I am asking you this to make you think of what had been happening in that matter over last month or two.
As you propably know, Raiders and Defenders are now almost always working with each other, such like Order of Grey Wardens (Commended nation of Haku lies there) and Lily or Communist bloc (neutral, or so they say) and Malice. We also seen a rapid increase of militarism over defenders that also had become more agressive towards other regions. Outside of that, we also see Moderators resolving conflicts in favor of Raiders most of the time. Raiders, such as Eternal order or Lily are also trying to make their old dream ( and my nigthmare) alive: To make NS in the dark age where only Raiders and Defenders could live, with a favor to the first.
With all this, did the axis change?
We dont have so much defenders and raiders. Most are unactive in that matter and have no military at all. There is agreement beetwen them and they help raiders.
For me, its clear that there is a new axis.
Maybe Military-Pacifist?
Or Old world - New world?
I am curious what do you think of this matter.
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Attempted Socialism
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Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:19 am

If you want good answers, you're asking in the wrong forum. Gameplay is that way.


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Postby Chef Big Dog » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:57 am

What?
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Postby Fauxia » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:01 am

I'm not sure where you're getting any of this from, but it's clear wherever you are is not a very good source. There's a lot that can be learned from browsing these forums, but I'd recommend not making threads like these unless you know what you're talking about.

Lily is an Independent region, not a raider region, so they sometimes raid and sometimes defend. Primarily in raiding they tag raid (essentially graffiti on a region); I'm not sure they do long-term occupations at all. I don't think the Communist Bloc in terms of NS Ideology is "neutral" (they're raider as far as I know). And moderators don't resolve conflicts and haven't since before the introduction of influence in 2006 (though they do occasionally make technical rulings which risk screwing one side over).

The R/D conflict remains very alive right now. Defender activity has been very high for quite a while now and raiders have become much more active since the return of the Brotherhood of Malice.
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Postby The Church of Satan » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:15 pm

Fauxia wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting any of this from, but it's clear wherever you are is not a very good source. There's a lot that can be learned from browsing these forums, but I'd recommend not making threads like these unless you know what you're talking about.

Lily is an Independent region, not a raider region, so they sometimes raid and sometimes defend. Primarily in raiding they tag raid (essentially graffiti on a region); I'm not sure they do long-term occupations at all. I don't think the Communist Bloc in terms of NS Ideology is "neutral" (they're raider as far as I know). And moderators don't resolve conflicts and haven't since before the introduction of influence in 2006 (though they do occasionally make technical rulings which risk screwing one side over).

The R/D conflict remains very alive right now. Defender activity has been very high for quite a while now and raiders have become much more active since the return of the Brotherhood of Malice.

As an addendum to this, raiders and defenders only work together under very specific circumstances (e.g. wrecking Nazi regions.)
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Saksoni
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Postby Saksoni » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:57 pm

Fauxia wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting any of this from, but it's clear wherever you are is not a very good source. There's a lot that can be learned from browsing these forums, but I'd recommend not making threads like these unless you know what you're talking about.

Lily is an Independent region, not a raider region, so they sometimes raid and sometimes defend. Primarily in raiding they tag raid (essentially graffiti on a region); I'm not sure they do long-term occupations at all. I don't think the Communist Bloc in terms of NS Ideology is "neutral" (they're raider as far as I know). And moderators don't resolve conflicts and haven't since before the introduction of influence in 2006 (though they do occasionally make technical rulings which risk screwing one side over).

The R/D conflict remains very alive right now. Defender activity has been very high for quite a while now and raiders have become much more active since the return of the Brotherhood of Malice.

Good to know month isnt long. Check last raiding missions of Grey Wardens, and you will know what i mean: Atleast 4 raids with the thing they are supposed to combat.
They should be normal region armed forces to defend them, and not some raider.
Condemn Lily also says it is respo sible for raiding i believe 500+ regions, so i dont care if they "defended" (members of that region from being in their region) maybe 20 times. Would you forget a murderer just because he did 256 hours of public works?
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Saksoni
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Postby Saksoni » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:02 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:Moved, General Assembly to Gameplay. Please pay attention to where you post. This had nothing to do with the GA.

I believe this is something regarding our defense, so we wont get suprised when somebody betrays us. This forum also has more people responding and actually concerned for our wellbeing.
And i also dont want to be questions such as "How do you recruit people to regions" or 5 about something i want to actually ask if its true.
I wouldnt get good responds there, just "Of CoUrSE IT HaSNt ChAnGEd YoI IdIOT HoW caN yoU EveN ThINK ABouD DiS"
Last edited by Saksoni on Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Refuge Isle » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:04 am

Saksoni wrote:Check last raiding missions of Grey Wardens, and you will know what i mean: Atleast 4 raids with the thing they are supposed to combat.

I am the Warden who keeps those records and I have no idea what you are talking about or referring to.

My best guess is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "chasing" is. In chasing, defenders "chase" after raiders moving to raid a target region, so as to block their raid. If a raider gets the delegacy, they can do whatever they want, including vandalism or some manner of griefing. If a defender gets the delegacy, we ban the raiders and leave. They're not "joint ops" or whatever you've been trying to say.

On the other hand, if you're referring to the destruction of your former home, Confederacy of Layem, then every military on NationStates (Including TGW) participated in assisting that region's destruction, as it was home to a group of players that we have no interest in giving a platform on this website.

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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:07 am

Saksoni wrote:I am asking you this to make you think of what had been happening in that matter over last month or two.
As you propably know, Raiders and Defenders are now almost always working with each other, such like Order of Grey Wardens (Commended nation of Haku lies there) and Lily or Communist bloc (neutral, or so they say) and Malice. We also seen a rapid increase of militarism over defenders that also had become more agressive towards other regions. Outside of that, we also see Moderators resolving conflicts in favor of Raiders most of the time. Raiders, such as Eternal order or Lily are also trying to make their old dream ( and my nigthmare) alive: To make NS in the dark age where only Raiders and Defenders could live, with a favor to the first.
With all this, did the axis change?
We dont have so much defenders and raiders. Most are unactive in that matter and have no military at all. There is agreement beetwen them and they help raiders.
For me, its clear that there is a new axis.
Maybe Military-Pacifist?
Or Old world - New world?
I am curious what do you think of this matter.


I'm just gonna be perfectly honest; your perception of present military dynamics is pretty much so wrong it's almost laughable.

To give this a serious answer, you do not have any understanding of Military Gameplay, its structures, and the present situation that largely exists at the two updates (and outside of them) between Raiderdom and Defenderdom. I'm not sure what raiders you think we (defenders) are "working together with", but we largely have little to no cooperation with The Brotherhood of Malice, The Black Hawks, and Lone Wolves United - as well as BoM's lapdogs Osiris, The Eternal Order, and The Communist Bloc.

The other region you name - Lily - honestly makes little to no sense in this context. Lily is not raider, it is independent, as is evidenced by its members' frequent collaboration with both sides of the game.

Finally, I'd address the biggest piece of horseshit in this entire post - the allegation that we "help raiders" or that the majority of defender regions have "no military at all". The only matter that we collaborate with raiders with is invasion of fascist regions, and if you oppose that then that says a lot more about you than it does about that. Given that you are a former Layem native, though, I wouldn't be shocked if you're mad that we raid fascists. Beyond that though, in the last week, Libcord (the unified defender operations server) alone - not counting defender oriented operations done outside of that - have contested raiderdom's actions at every single available update.

Over the past 14 updates Libcord has recorded:

  • 500+ defended regions
  • a single-update defense record of 226 regions
  • 200+ regions cleaned from raider tags
  • one liberation of a raider occupation

A plethora of militaries are involved in this effort every day, but for the sake of countering your nonsensical claim of "inactivity" we'll address just the defender-regions and not the independents. For starters, I assume we both recognize that the majority of each on-site region tag is puppet regions, random backwaters, etc. If we sort through those for the, say 10, largest defender tagged regions here's what we have - again skipping past puppet storage, fash, and jump points.

  • The South Pacific - a longtime defender region, one of the largest defender militaries in the game, troops at most updates
  • The Rejected Realms - a longtime defender region, one of the largest defender militaries in the game, troops at most updates
  • 10000 Islands - one of the most successful user created regions ever, defender, one of the largest defender militaries in the game, troops at all updates
  • The Order of The Grey Wardens - This is my region, I'm a little biased. We're the largest update military in the game, are ever-present, and regularly have 10+ troops on for normal update activities.
  • Wintreath - I'll give you this one. They're withdrawn from Gameplay, and should drop the tag. Active region though.
  • The Union of Democratic States - Notable turnouts at all major liberations, active update presence
  • The Free Nations Region - Notable turnouts at all major liberations, active update presence
  • The League - One of the newest, but brightest defender regions. They have turnout at almost every update, one of the largest liberation forces, and are generally great.
  • I'll concede to you The Region That Has No Big Banks and Spiritus - though both have a lot of internal defender aligned membership including myself, whose people contribute greatly through militaries abroad from those regions.

Gonna be honest, I struggle where you perceive this inactivity to be coming from. I'd invite you to come see Libcord for yourself, but we already banned you from The Grey Wardens after hearing about some now-purged posts by you on the Layem RMB during that purification process.

As for your issue with Moderators, I'd advise you to take any genuine concerns regarding NS Moderation to GHR or Moderation, and not go off all mad here because Gameplay destroyed Layem in a unified manner.
Last edited by Tim-Opolis on Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Bendicion
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Postby Bendicion » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:52 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Saksoni wrote: snip

Over the past 14 updates Libcord has recorded:
  • 500+ defended regions
  • a single-update defense record of 226 regions
  • 200+ regions cleaned from raider tags
  • one liberation of a raider occupation


Damn those are a lot!

Moving one.

You can also say that Raiderdom is also very much alive, defenders are here to chase and defend just as much as raiders want to raid. Heck, I reckon there are like close to 50-60+ active updaters in R/D, give or take, who come and play during update. Hell, 108+ people were present during the raid on Confederacy of Layem lol. And behind those updater forces is the even more numerous number of pilers. R/D is technically what keeps this game much enjoyable to people who don't prefer roleplaying and the like. Its fun! And in no way is dead :lol:
Last edited by Bendicion on Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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