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[DRAFT] Firearm Competency and Safety Compact

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:49 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:I'm satisfied with the following:

To satisfy the exemption in GA#399, the *intention* of a provision needs to be to prevent imminent unlawful activity, but if the effect is to prevent unlawful activity that is both imminent and non-imminent, the blocker does not distinguish between effects, only intent.

A factual claim or assertion to that effect would have to be made in the preamble, per prior precedents related to NEF.

Ooc: I have to disagree with the laxity of this test. NEF questioned an extreme hazard which required a value judgment on what is extreme. Imminance requires much less judgment, as imminent has a much firmer meaning relating to immediacy. This interpretation reduces the effect of essentially every blocker, not just the badly written ones.

I would enforce a requirement of iminnent to require regulations specifically on those activities at risk of lawlessness that conform to a common understanding of what is immediate, or that which about to happen.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:06 pm

My position has been for some time that blocking clauses should be interpreted in terms of the NEF precedents: if the proposal asserts an interpretation that is at all plausible, we ought to accept it. The interpretation given above doesn't revolve around "imminence" in as much as it does about what it seeks. The proposal merely needs to seek to reduce the relevant danger.

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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:40 pm

Fachumonn wrote:OOC: I think we need a change how GA categories work. May bring that up in technical or something, idk.

If you want to propose a change, make sure to link it here so I see it.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:40 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:My position has been for some time that blocking clauses should be interpreted in terms of the NEF precedents: if the proposal asserts an interpretation that is at all plausible, we ought to accept it. The interpretation given above doesn't revolve around "imminence" in as much as it does about what it seeks. The proposal merely needs to seek to reduce the relevant danger.

But this was because NEF was extremely vauge on what dangers were involved. Imminence is not this vauge. Applying the same test here is not appropriate because the conditions of this blocker are materially different.

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:38 am

Ambassador McCooley skims over the title and text of the proposed legislation and groans. This was not how he wanted his return to the chambers of the General Assembly to commence.

Alas, people don't always get what they want.

"Right, Ambassador, let's dissect this piece by piece", he says into the microphone.
Convinced that all individuals deserve to be as safe as possible from firearms violence;

"What about knife violence? VIolence with vehicles? Violence with fists? Violence with chemical and biological agents- household materials have demonstrably proven themselves to be lethal and life-altering, whether used in the production of powerful explosive devices or when thrown onto the faces of victims. Why are we obsessed about the means of causing carnage, death, and injury, and not the act in itself? There are socioeconomic root causes behind such acts, such as poverty and mental illness."
Resolved that all World Assembly nations should take reasonable precautions so that individuals posing a danger of committing violent crimes cannot gain access to firearms;

"Very well, let's see what we have here..."
B. Member nations may use any reasonable process they wish for the purpose of demonstrating a lack of dangerousness, so long as the process ensures:
  1. To a degree of medical certainty, the individual does not suffer from an uncontrolled personality disorder or mental health condition - such as narcissism, clinical mood instability, or paranoid schizoaffective disorder - which may cause the individual to suddenly engage in erratic violent action.

"We find this provision to be objectionable. In regards to our own national situation, the Greater Cesnica Personal Weapons Act permits firearms possession and acquisition for those suffering from clinical mood instability, paranoid schizoaffective disorder, and narcissistic tendencies, among other mental health and personality conditions. Affliction from a mental health disorder or an undesirable personality trait does not translate to persistent homicidal or suicidal tendencies. Furthermore, the vast majority of afflicted individuals do not commit acts of violence, even when in possession of weaponry. We will not countenance the disarmament of millions of otherwise law-abiding, functioning members of society in our own nation, and billions beyond our borders due to circumstances outside of their control."
The individual has basic knowledge of how to safely handle and operate the firearm they intend to acquire.

"No objections on this point."
The individual does not have a criminal history in which they were found to have used a firearm to threaten, injure, or kill another person; or the individual has been fully rehabilitated following such criminal history.

"In order for this sub-article to be sensible, it must also include a provision for those who have been pardoned of said offenses, which may be distinct from full rehabilitation."
... and "criminal negligence" means that the person is aware (or reasonably should be aware) of a substantial risk that the individual does not meet the qualifications of Article I, and disregards that risk to give the individual a firearm.

"What is reasonable awareness? A 'substantial risk' when gauged under these circumstances is entirely a subjective opinion. Criminal liability in this regard is objectionable to us."
Any persons harmed by any act in contravention of Article I, or their immediate families if they are deceased or incapacitated, must be allowed to seek damages in court against the perpetrator of the harm as well as any others who provided the perpetrator with a firearm in violation of the requirements of Article I.

"We have the same issues with this sub-article as outlined earlier."
Member nations shall temporarily prohibit an individual from obtaining or using a firearm if the individuals' spouse, domestic partner, family member, or other acquainted person informs the member nation of facts showing that the individual poses a substantial danger of imminent lawless action with a firearm. A restraint imposed under this Article may persist only for the minimum amount of time necessary to abate the immediate danger of unlawful activity and violence.

McCooley pinches the bridge of nose and sighs.

"Ambassador, I recognize that your intentions here are probably benign. However, it is very important for me to stress just how catastrophic the above may be if implemented. In some jurisdictions where this has been implemented, it is referred to as a 'red flag law'. It completely sidesteps due process and allows for the immediate confiscation of firearms from an individual, with no means for them to defend themselves for accusations that often turn out to be false and motivated by bias and/or vengeance. It has two critical points of failure- first the reporting party has a disproportionate amount of power over the subject of the confiscation request given that said subject is denied due process and the ability to defend themselves before their firearms are confiscated. Second, the state may in itself have bias in its decision-making, especially when relegated to bureaucrats and judicial officials who may have their own internal subjective opinions on particular individuals and tropes. For instance, what may seem benign and acceptable in a certain area of a nation or within a certain culture may seem archaic and indicative of danger to outside observers."

McCooley pauses to gather his thoughts before continuing.

"I... I just don't want people to die, Ambassador. When an individual is completely unaware of accusations and an impending law enforcement response against them, and they are met with a surprise raid, especially during the night, they may naturally act in a manner by which they may defend themselves or their loved ones from unknown intruders. This provision will kill lawful firearms owners, as well as law enforcement if enacted. I strongly urge you, if you don't just scrap this proposal in its entirety, to exclude this provision in particular.

As such, strongly opposed at this time."
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Thermodolian WA Mission
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Founded: Jun 03, 2021
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Postby Thermodolian WA Mission » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:30 pm

Ambassador Eve stood up to speak, “Ambassador I will not be like my other fellow members like Ambassador McCooley, this is not a matter for the GA. The possession, sale, and regulation of firearms is an internal matter for member states and not something the WA needs to micromanage. If you want to ban your citizens from owning guns or make them jump through six thousands hoops then that shall be your prerogative but you should not try and force your silly ideals on the rest of us.

Furthermore this entire proposal goes against article 13 of the the Thermodolian Constitution which states: “All citizens in Thermodolia shall have the right to defend themselves, their loved ones, and their property from harm. The use of firearms to protect the already mentioned shall also be protected”.

This article has been held to mean that very little if any regulation can be used against owning guns in Thermodolia. As such we oppose this law on national sovereignty grounds”.

Instead of sitting back down Eve flips the bird while curtsying and turns to walk out the door
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:31 pm

Thermodolian WA Mission wrote:Ambassador Eve stood up to speak, “Ambassador I will not be like my other fellow members like Ambassador McCooley, this is not a matter for the GA. The possession, sale, and regulation of firearms is an internal matter for member states and not something the WA needs to micromanage. If you want to ban your citizens from owning guns or make them jump through six thousands hoops then that shall be your prerogative but you should not try and force your silly ideals on the rest of us.

Furthermore this entire proposal goes against article 13 of the the Thermodolian Constitution which states: “All citizens in Thermodolia shall have the right to defend themselves, their loved ones, and their property from harm. The use of firearms to protect the already mentioned shall also be protected”.

This article has been held to mean that very little if any regulation can be used against owning guns in Thermodolia. As such we oppose this law on national sovereignty grounds”.

Instead of sitting back down Eve flips the bird while curtsying and turns to walk out the door

McCooley mutters into the microphone something along the lines of "not a fan of legislating on guns here either..." before walking out after Eve, looking apprehensive.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
My IFAK and Booboo Kit Starter Guide!
novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

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