by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:54 am
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:58 am
by Ifreann » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:00 am
Indomitable Friendship wrote:I would like to achieve a compromise between left and right libertarianism
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:01 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:34 am
Hukhalia wrote:(god I hate the political compass)
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:40 am
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:40 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:43 am
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:50 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:57 am
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:58 am
Indomitable Friendship wrote:Hukhalia wrote:I'm just saying that the political compass is a shit model, as are most mainstream conceived models of politics. Let's move beyond basic dichotomies that could be understood by a five-year-old.
I agree, anything else? On a scale of "meh, could be worse" to "blood is squirting from my eyes while reading this", where ya got me at?
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:01 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:06 am
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:08 am
by Senkaku » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 am
Indomitable Friendship wrote:I would like to achieve a compromise between left and right libertarianism
Indomitable Friendship wrote:Hukhalia wrote:I'm just saying that the political compass is a shit model, as are most mainstream conceived models of politics. Let's move beyond basic dichotomies that could be understood by a five-year-old.
I agree, anything else? On a scale of "meh, could be worse" to "blood is squirting from my eyes while reading this", where ya got me at?
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:15 am
Hukhalia wrote:Indomitable Friendship wrote:Why & why?
Why no. 1: the answer is why no. 2.
Why no. 2:
Anyone who identifies with a broad streak of "authoritarian" or "libertarian" as a trend for a society at large is incredibly politically reductionist to just the apparatus of state rather than all the niches around it. Authority is applied in many different ways, and its entire character depends on who's exercising it. It's because you need to look at society from multiple perspectives. To the slaver, the enslaved person is their property. They are conditioned to think so by their status as a slaver, by living in a slaver society, et cetera. To take their slaves from them is to take their property from them; incredibly authoritarian! But to the enslaved person, to take the slaver's "property" from them is to liberate them. The act of liberating the enslaved person, unless the master does so willingly (which is rare and does not really occur on a society-wide level), is to use authority in order to liberate; to be both "authoritarian" and "libertarian" at once. Once you apply an analysis like this to society at large (the relationship between the citizen and the state, between worker and boss, between jailor and inmate, etc), it's impossible to make many conclusions on broad authority and liberty as guiding social principles because all things are authoritarian or libertarian depending on your perspective. So your model of politics, which aims merely to maximise liberty as a single thing rather than any concrete political analysis between interest groups in society, is pretty substanceless.
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:19 am
Indomitable Friendship wrote:Hukhalia wrote:Why no. 1: the answer is why no. 2.
Why no. 2:
Anyone who identifies with a broad streak of "authoritarian" or "libertarian" as a trend for a society at large is incredibly politically reductionist to just the apparatus of state rather than all the niches around it. Authority is applied in many different ways, and its entire character depends on who's exercising it. It's because you need to look at society from multiple perspectives. To the slaver, the enslaved person is their property. They are conditioned to think so by their status as a slaver, by living in a slaver society, et cetera. To take their slaves from them is to take their property from them; incredibly authoritarian! But to the enslaved person, to take the slaver's "property" from them is to liberate them. The act of liberating the enslaved person, unless the master does so willingly (which is rare and does not really occur on a society-wide level), is to use authority in order to liberate; to be both "authoritarian" and "libertarian" at once. Once you apply an analysis like this to society at large (the relationship between the citizen and the state, between worker and boss, between jailor and inmate, etc), it's impossible to make many conclusions on broad authority and liberty as guiding social principles because all things are authoritarian or libertarian depending on your perspective. So your model of politics, which aims merely to maximise liberty as a single thing rather than any concrete political analysis between interest groups in society, is pretty substanceless.
OK, so let's throw out all the rhetorical bullshit. Do you think this paradigm is sufficiently liberal in practice from your perspective? Do you have any bones to pick? I'm not trying to pull your teeth; it just feels like you have something to say but are dancing around it.
by Hamidiye » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:24 am
Hukhalia wrote:Indomitable Friendship wrote:
OK, so let's throw out all the rhetorical bullshit. Do you think this paradigm is sufficiently liberal in practice from your perspective? Do you have any bones to pick? I'm not trying to pull your teeth; it just feels like you have something to say but are dancing around it.
The sufficient amount of liberalism for me is precisely none. Your politics are very liberal and I hate them.
by Hukhalia » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:24 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:26 am
Senkaku wrote:Indomitable Friendship wrote:I would like to achieve a compromise between left and right libertarianism
Why? Why are so many people, on this site and in general, obsessed with trying to invent their own nonsensical “compromises” between irreconcilable political lines? Based on your posting history, I would’ve said a better use of your time would have been revisiting high school biology.Indomitable Friendship wrote:I agree, anything else? On a scale of "meh, could be worse" to "blood is squirting from my eyes while reading this", where ya got me at?
It’s neither. It’s nothing. It’s meaningless. Your understanding of politics is as limited as your understanding of biology, culture, and race.
by Hamidiye » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:26 am
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:29 am
Hukhalia wrote:Indomitable Friendship wrote:
OK, so let's throw out all the rhetorical bullshit. Do you think this paradigm is sufficiently liberal in practice from your perspective? Do you have any bones to pick? I'm not trying to pull your teeth; it just feels like you have something to say but are dancing around it.
The sufficient amount of liberalism for me is precisely none. Your politics are very liberal and I hate them.
by Indomitable Friendship » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am
by Vistulange » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:50 am
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