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[DRAFT] Rogue Governors Galore!

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Johill
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Sep 04, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

[DRAFT] Rogue Governors Galore!

Postby Johill » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:51 pm

Rogue Governors Galore!

After the government constitutionalised federalisation, many states have branded themselves as independent and have stopped listening to your instructions.

Invalid for all nations that don't have devolution.
Invalid for all nations that don't have elections.

Choice 1:

"DISGRACES!" Screams five star general, [randomname]. "We give them freedom, just like they asked, yet they STILL want more! They've proven that giving states more power was a mistake, so lets bring them back under our control...by any means necessary."

States have been stripped of all their powers.

Choice 2:

"Now now, let's calm down a bit, shall we?" Soothes [randomname], your calm and collected Minister of the Interior. "While I do agree that any state declaring themselves as independent should be brought under our control, don't you think we're to blame? We gave them freedom, yet didn't outline the extent of this freedom with nearly enough clarity. Let's sit back down with the governors and help them understand their place in the world."

Federalisation means nothing to the National Government.

Choice 3:

"Um...can I get a word in hear?" Asks shy governor of [nation]'s least populous state. "I think I speak for all of the states when I say this: we must have self-determination." Shifting his eyes from the floor, he musters up the courage to look you in the eyes. "My state has profited a lot from our new found powers, so please don't take it away!"

States of [nation] are essentially sovereign nations.

All options are valid for all states eligible to take the question.
The Supreme Empire of Johill
"Supremacy, Nobility, Camaraderie!"
Imperial Senator of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators
"Hail the Confederation!"

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American Collectivism
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Oct 22, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby American Collectivism » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:25 am

I feel like this issue belongs in sort of an issue chain about federal government and power of independent states/provinces. I do like the premise, however why did you choose “Minister of Interior” as your second choice
Last edited by American Collectivism on Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Verdant Haven
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1212
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Verdant Haven » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:00 pm

This is extremely similar to issue #67, except that this is specifically for nations with devolution. Issue 67 issue sees a county declaring independence, with an option to permit it, an option where a general proclaims that it's treason, and a compromise option to allow them some self-determination but not too much.

There can be room for a version of this scenario that specifically is about devolution reaching the point of secession – nothing wrong with that concept. Both the description and the options will need to be extensively fleshed out though, and the options should be examined to find unique approaches and a bit of flavor related to whatever the text specifically ends up being.

As a couple other notes to help with word choice while drafting, devolution is not the same as federation or federalization – those terms aren't interchangeable here. Also, there is no guarantee that a nation has a constitution, so "constitutionalized" doesn't work as a synonym for "legalized." As a real-life example, the United Kingdom is a sovereign state that has devolution without federation, and does not have a constitution.
- Verdant Haven

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9833
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:16 pm

Verdant Haven wrote:As a real-life example, the United Kingdom is a sovereign state that has devolution without federation, and does not have a constitution.
Huh.
Wikipedia wrote:The Constitution of the United Kingdom or British constitution comprises the written and unwritten arrangements that establish the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as a political body. Unlike in most countries, no attempt has been made to codify such arrangements into a single document. Thus, it is known as an uncodified constitution. This enables the constitution to be easily changed as no provisions are formally entrenched. However, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom recognises that there are constitutional principles, including parliamentary sovereignty, the rule of law, democracy and upholding international law.
...How does that even work? Do they just arbitrarily go "yeah, that kinda looks like it's more important than normal laws"?

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Verdant Haven
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1212
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Verdant Haven » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:08 pm

Trotterdam wrote:...How does that even work? Do they just arbitrarily go "yeah, that kinda looks like it's more important than normal laws"?


I honestly couldn't tell ya. I know it's something to do with common law and traditional practices, but yeah - it's pretty unusual at the modern sovereign state level. There are a handful of other nations that operate in similar manners (Israel, for example), but I think they generally have at least a specific identified set of assorted documents or texts that are given special status. I believe the UK is the only one that actual makes a point of including things that are completely unwritten.
- Verdant Haven

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23633
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:28 am

If nation JUST became a federation now, then why would there already be calls for independence?
Sign the Petition: https://www.change.org/p/the-australian ... anny-state
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Johill
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Sep 04, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Johill » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:21 am

Rogue Governors Galore!

After the government legalised devolution, many states have branded themselves as independent and have stopped listening to your instructions.

Invalid for all nations that don't have devolution.
Invalid for all nations that don't have elections.

Choice 1:

"DISGRACES!" Screams five star general, [randomname]. "We give them freedom, just like they asked, yet they STILL want more! They've proven that giving states more power was a mistake, so lets bring them back under our control...by any means necessary."

States have been stripped of all their powers.

Choice 2:

"Now now, let's calm down a bit, shall we?" Soothes [randomname], your calm and collected Minister of the Interior. "While I do agree that any state declaring themselves as independent should be brought under our control, don't you think we're to blame? We gave them freedom, yet didn't outline the extent of this freedom with nearly enough clarity. Let's sit back down with the governors and help them understand their place in the world."

Devolution means nothing to the National Government.

Choice 3:

"Um...can I get a word in here?" Asks shy governor of [nation]'s least populous state. "I think I speak for all of the states when I say this: we must have self-determination." Shifting his eyes from the floor, he musters up the courage to look you in the eyes. "My state has profited a lot from our new found powers, so please don't take it away!"

States of [nation] are essentially sovereign nations.

Choice 4:

"Look mate," chimes in the charismatic elected leader of [nation]'s largest Local Council, "I think the problem here is not whether the state's should be brought under the control of your government, but rather the lack of a centralised supreme document that grants them certain powers, while also limiting what you can do to their individual states." Handing you a fancy black pen, he drops a stapled collection of paper onto your desk, causing it to creak horrendously. "Just sign here and all your troubles will disappear!"

The government has constitutionalized federalisation.

All options are valid for all states eligible to take the question.
The Supreme Empire of Johill
"Supremacy, Nobility, Camaraderie!"
Imperial Senator of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators
"Hail the Confederation!"


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