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Idea - Blocking users from bidding on your cards.

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The Shaymen
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Founded: Feb 15, 2022
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Idea - Blocking users from bidding on your cards.

Postby The Shaymen » Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:55 pm

I'd like to propose consideration of putting a feature on the game that allows us to block a user from bidding on a card that you are selling.

Currently it is possible to block a user from sending you a TG. In all aspects of the game you are able to cut off a person contacting you who you don't want contact with, or to stop interaction from a person you don't wish to interact with. However, when it comes to trading cards, you can not control who buys a card you wish to sell.

In real life, if you were to sell something, as the owner of the item for sale, you would always have the right to refuse a bid and sell to someone else. I think implementing this in NS would be a good idea and would mean those that don't want any interaction, or have had to leave the site due to unwanted attention from other members, can play the game without that person "by proxy" getting to them.

To mitigate the issue of people intentionally stopping card sales to anyone but their own puppets, it could be set up that you must add a nation to your "Do Not Sell To" list in the same way you put a user on your ignore list. Once that user is on your DNST list then any time you attempt to sell a card they (And their puppets since the server can tell via logins and IP's which accounts are linked) simply won't see that auction and a match will not be made, even if your selling price meets their ask. To stop bank transferring nations from just blocking any user that bids on a card that they want to transfer have it set up that you can't block anyone who is currently bidding on one of you cards, and that there would be a "cool off" period of 28 days if you wish to remove someone you blocked on bidding.

I currently junk a lot of cards off my puppet accounts that I would happily sell because the highest bidder is someone I don't wish to sell to. I'd happily take less on the card by selling it to the second highest bidder, but the game doesn't currently allow this.

Putting a function in to allow blocking a user so that they can not interact with you in any manner would, in my opinion, make the game safer and more fun for the user base. It would mean that minors who have had an unpleasant experience with a user would be able to return to playing the game without feeling threatened.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:00 pm

The Shaymen wrote:they (And their puppets since the server can tell via logins and IP's which accounts are linked)

How will this be consistently enforced - given that
1. Telegram blocks (and the forum Ignore List) only operates on a nation-by-nation basis,
2. Moderators have repeatedly said that they will not confirm on request whether X is a puppet of Y, and
3. Almost half of your posts have been made in Flaming in Made the top 100 with no puppets thread, a thread in which you repeatedly expressed your disdain for Mikeswill (and no other member of the trading cards community)? I'm not confident that this would be anything other than a game-sponsored means to make sure that Mikeswill is prohibited from trading with you.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:05 pm

I think that a direct sell feature (selling directly to one specified nation and no one else) would be great but this… read Tin's above post.
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The Shaymen
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Postby The Shaymen » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:20 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
The Shaymen wrote:they (And their puppets since the server can tell via logins and IP's which accounts are linked)

How will this be consistently enforced - given that
1. Telegram blocks (and the forum Ignore List) only operates on a nation-by-nation basis,
2. Moderators have repeatedly said that they will not confirm on request whether X is a puppet of Y, and
3. Almost half of your posts have been made in Flaming in Made the top 100 with no puppets thread, a thread in which you repeatedly expressed your disdain for Mikeswill (and no other member of the trading cards community)? I'm not confident that this would be anything other than a game-sponsored means to make sure that Mikeswill is prohibited from trading with you.


1 - Doing nation-by-nation basis like the Telegram blocks, whilst not ideal, would be, in my opinion a better solution to not doing it if mass blocking puppets is seen to be an issue/problematic
2 - I wasn't aware of the non confirmation on puppets from mods, however again, reverting back to point 1, I'd still support being able to block a user even if it wouldn't be possible to block all their puppets.
3 - While he is the person whom I don't want to sell to, there are legit reasons for this - On most platforms it is possible to simply block interactions with those you don't wish to (Thinking of the likes of Facebook for example where you don't see ANYTHING from someone you have blocked). It seems daft that I can tell my son to block someone who has sent him a threat, yet I can't stop that same person from attempting to buy his cards and as a result my son is the one that loses out as he is banned from the game (By me as I don't want him to have any interaction or feel intimidated coming across him).

I understand some would use a blocking feature as an advantage to help scalp/sell/buy cards with puppets and obviously things would need to be considered to stop this from being abused, however a feature that blanket blocks someone from all interaction with you if you don't wish for it (like Facebook does) to me is a good idea.

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The Shaymen
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Postby The Shaymen » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:24 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:I think that a direct sell feature (selling directly to one specified nation and no one else) would be great but this… read Tin's above post.


I don't like a "direct sell feature" in the sense of selling to one and no one else as I feel that is too open to abuse - however, I am proposing pretty much an opposite but similar feature which is a "doesn't sell to this person" feature.

I get it would be open to abuse and people trying to use it to their advantage, which is why there could be some "fallbacks" to putting people on a "dont sell to this person" list - like a long cool off should they change their mind (To stop those dumping known players on there when wanting to quickly shift a card, then removing them) - the obvious trade off is that if you are blocking someone from bidding on your card then you can't also bid on their cards.

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Panagouge
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Postby Panagouge » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:06 pm

The Shaymen wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:I think that a direct sell feature (selling directly to one specified nation and no one else) would be great but this… read Tin's above post.


I don't like a "direct sell feature" in the sense of selling to one and no one else as I feel that is too open to abuse - however, I am proposing pretty much an opposite but similar feature which is a "doesn't sell to this person" feature.

I get it would be open to abuse and people trying to use it to their advantage, which is why there could be some "fallbacks" to putting people on a "dont sell to this person" list - like a long cool off should they change their mind (To stop those dumping known players on there when wanting to quickly shift a card, then removing them) - the obvious trade off is that if you are blocking someone from bidding on your card then you can't also bid on their cards.

As much as you do not like the "direct sell feaure," it is been the literal core of the trading card game for four years now. Auctions and transfers, both of bank and card, are supposed to be inherently risky. Hell will freeze over before the admins even eyeball this terrible idea. Besides the issue of enforcement, the admins are not going to create a feature to pander to your wishful waging wars. If you don't to lose a card to the open market, plan carefully. That is the only solution.
Last edited by Panagouge on Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Makasta
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Postby New Makasta » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:42 pm

The market works like an auction house, as much as I would love to block players from messing with my transfers of cards/bank I recognize the fact that I can not and that doing both is an inherently risky as this was a feature admin admin has made very clear they intend to keep in the cards minigame.

Furthermore to elaborate upon what tin has pointed out it would be EXTERMLY difficult for moderators to enforce such a feature, that frankly already has a good solution that exist for what you wish. On the button right next to the junk button is the "gift" button which as you have stated you don't mind getting a lower price to help someone out (assuming I have read what you have posted correctly), so you have the ability to simply gift people the card they want even if some you dislike is over bidding them.

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:35 pm

New Makasta wrote:it would be EXTERMLY difficult for moderators to enforce such a feature

Rephrase that to "there is no way in hell the moderators would enforce such a feature". Auctions are on a one hour timer. We're all volunteers. Getting Help is not manned 24/7. We do our best to quickly removed nations like adbots and pornspammers, but sometimes we miss them by hours or days. We will not consider any rule that requires the Mod Center be consistently manned to handle such requests.

If you want a solution, it must be programmed. Automatic identification of puppets is not something that can be automated at this time (and probably will never be).

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Mikeswill
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Postby Mikeswill » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:25 am

For someone who wants to block me from their trades you sure seem to have no problem jumping in the ones I'm already in . :D

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:15 am

Can't see this as a priority, but I actually agree with OPs general idea. If you block a nation, that nation shouldn't be able to TG you, or do anything that would create a notice, or interact with your deck at all. Ofc that player could interact with OP via another puppet, but that's why there isn't a limit to the number of nations you can block (to my knowledge)
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Panagouge
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Postby Panagouge » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:39 pm

Flanderlion wrote: Ofc that player could interact with OP via another puppet

And that's why this idea is impossible to enforce, rendering the entire concept null and void as Fris noted.
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:51 pm

Panagouge wrote:
Flanderlion wrote: Ofc that player could interact with OP via another puppet

And that's why this idea is impossible to enforce, rendering the entire concept null and void as Fris noted.

Not really. All existing blocks are per nation than per player, I don't see admin implementing anything that wasn't per nation.
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Racoda
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Postby Racoda » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:20 pm

Flanderlion wrote:Can't see this as a priority, but I actually agree with OPs general idea. If you block a nation, that nation shouldn't be able to TG you, or do anything that would create a notice, or interact with your deck at all. Ofc that player could interact with OP via another puppet, but that's why there isn't a limit to the number of nations you can block (to my knowledge)

How far does this go? If I block someone, can they endorse me? Can they vote on my WA/SC resolution? I'm sure you see how that leads to massive problems.
Similarly, blocks affecting open auctions are problematic: just block everyone that has the card you're transferring with/inflating/buying and you have a MASSIVE advantage.
The point of blocking telegrams from people is not "stopping interaction" (as I've highlighted in your post), it's stopping unwanted communication.
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Danternoust
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Postby Danternoust » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:30 pm

You have a really good memory to remember all the people you block and maintain all these puppet accounts. If you don't have a good memory, and have a good automation system, well.... I don't know what is causing the great gap between nationstates quality and your own tools quality.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:51 pm

Racoda wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:Can't see this as a priority, but I actually agree with OPs general idea. If you block a nation, that nation shouldn't be able to TG you, or do anything that would create a notice, or interact with your deck at all. Ofc that player could interact with OP via another puppet, but that's why there isn't a limit to the number of nations you can block (to my knowledge)

How far does this go? If I block someone, can they endorse me? Can they vote on my WA/SC resolution? I'm sure you see how that leads to massive problems.
Similarly, blocks affecting open auctions are problematic: just block everyone that has the card you're transferring with/inflating/buying and you have a MASSIVE advantage.
The point of blocking telegrams from people is not "stopping interaction" (as I've highlighted in your post), it's stopping unwanted communication.

I agree, good points. Depends on the sites priorities though. I would probably put a more effective blocking solution ahead of the minor issues each of those examples would cause (although I don't think it's much of an issue about WA resolutions). Cards wise it should be between a willing buyer and seller.
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Riemstagrad
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Postby Riemstagrad » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:02 pm

This would entirely defeat the open market system. And that is the core of the cards-game.

Even if it would be possible for the game to juggle bids and asks correctly according to bans, it would become impossible to play for players because of the uncertainty of what a change of bid/ask will bring. You never know who banned who. Imagine people placing bans during a bidding-war...

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Grishahakkaverchynot
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Postby Grishahakkaverchynot » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:45 am

This would ruin cards. Direct sell (between 2 nations only) seems like a better solution.
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Racoda
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Postby Racoda » Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:16 pm

Grishahakkaverchynot wrote:This would ruin cards. Direct sell (between 2 nations only) seems like a better solution.

Blocking other nations is basically direct trades with extra steps. Direct trades are much worse. They were the way cards worked during the original minigame. You can buy/sell to your puppets only: transfers (either bank or card) are not risky or open, you're guaranteed to get the bank/card. It's as if everyone is playing singleplayer and just has their scores tallied online.
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