Is it morally correct to dislike ones parents for creation?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I believe that this is an interesting philosophical question that touches on subjects of natalism and antinatalism and would really like to see the opinions of NSG on the matter.

The question I am asking is this: are the parents responsible or even potentially in the wrong for the act of creation of life itself, if said life brings mostly misery? I believe that this can be boiled down to the question of the responsibility itself- and if a person can and should be judged for actions results of which one may not truly understand. After all when people conceive children they rarely concern themselves with the question if a child is truly going to enjoy the life overall and what said child will bring to their life.

David Benatar’s argument of assymetry between pain and pleasure can be also relevant to the discussion I believe.

So, what are your thoughts regarding this matter? Is the act of creation of new life morally correct or not?

[Page]

I am neither antinatalist nor natalist. It is my view that any given birth has an unknown utility at the onset, that you are rolling the dice. Though the asymmetry argument is perhaps valid because if you got to flip a coin and if heads one guy would get a million dollars but if tails another guy would be flayed alive, in my view it is unethical to flip the coin.

But this world I think can be changed in ways as to increase the overall average utility of birth. Both by conventionally agreed upon means like protecting the environment and making civilization sustainable and ending war, and I have more radical ideas. It is my belief that assisted suicide should be accessible to everyone, albeit with a waiting period in some cases so that the impulsively suicidal have a chance to change their minds. Were it easy to end one's life, then it would be safer to create new life.

I do feel that the world is getting worse and that the utility of birth is on a downward trend, which reinforces my decision to be childfree though I was childfree in the first place just because I don't want the responsibility, I want a chill low stress life.

[The Black Forrest]

Meh. Getting upset at something you can’t change?…..not worth the effort. What’s done is done. What you do with yourself is all the matters….

[The Alma Mater]

To a degree, yes. If I were to create a child for the explicit purpose of having it suffer and die prematurely after torture, I certainly can be considered a bad guy.

[Page]

Meh. Getting upset at something you can’t change?…..not worth the effort. What’s done is done. What you do with yourself is all the matters….

True, what's done is done, but it's not like it's easy to check out. I don't mean that only in the suicide way, also in the sense that the vast, vast majority of people don't have the means to pack up their shit and try out life in a different place either. There are no frontiers anymore, no proverbial west.

Each and every one of us grew up to find out that our bodies are the property of capricious strangers who make decisions that can turn our lives upside down without ever meeting us. What's done is done but the situation is ongoing.

[Terminus Station]

Yes. Nobody consents to being born. Its a decision made for us.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I am neither antinatalist nor natalist. It is my view that any given birth has an unknown utility at the onset, that you are rolling the dice. Though the asymmetry argument is perhaps valid because if you got to flip a coin and if heads one guy would get a million dollars but if tails another guy would be flayed alive, in my view it is unethical to flip the coin.

But this world I think can be changed in ways as to increase the overall average utility of birth. Both by conventionally agreed upon means like protecting the environment and making civilization sustainable and ending war, and I have more radical ideas. It is my belief that assisted suicide should be accessible to everyone, albeit with a waiting period in some cases so that the impulsively suicidal have a chance to change their minds. Were it easy to end one's life, then it would be safer to create new life.

I do feel that the world is getting worse and that the utility of birth is on a downward trend, which reinforces my decision to be childfree though I was childfree in the first place just because I don't want the responsibility, I want a chill low stress life.

I believe that societal attitude towards suicide should be addressed too- because although it is a permanent solution to a temporary problems (in most cases), I’d argue that for me (clarifying that it’s only ablut me because I do not want to violate site rules) it is truly the easier way out.

Meh. Getting upset at something you can’t change?…..not worth the effort. What’s done is done. What you do with yourself is all the matters….

It’s more the case of getting upset over the fact that you have to life and are forced into responsibilities which you cannot change. Well for me and people that I’ve encountered with similar issues

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Bump

[Drongonia]

No, nihilism is cringe anyway - but barring that...

Your parents didn't choose to have you. At least, not the version of you that exists as you are. They could have never known you'd be a nihilistic loser who thinks their life is genuinely that worthless that you'd be annoyed at the mere facet of existence. Maybe if they did they'd have chosen to have sex in a different position or on a different day of the week or something.

(This post directed at people who believe it is morally correct to dislike their parents for being created)

[Laka Strolistandiler]

No, nihilism is cringe anyway - but barring that...

Your parents didn't choose to have you. At least, not the version of you that exists as you are. They could have never known you'd be a nihilistic loser who thinks their life is genuinely that worthless that you'd be annoyed at the mere facet of existence. Maybe if they did they'd have chosen to have sex in a different position or on a different day of the week or something.

(This post directed at people who believe it is morally correct to dislike their parents for being created)

And where did I say that I am a nihilist? I am depressed and I am a looser, yes, but hardly a nihilistic one. My life is worthless because I make it worthless, simple as. Because it brings primarily suffering to those around me and because if I was nonexistent life would be much better for everyone including people close to me. Hell, if I’d die life would be better for them now!

[Heloin]

I’m not angry for being alive. I’m only angry that I wasn’t something like a giant tortoise.

[Aymes]

I am happy that I’m here.

I can’t believe my luck that I’m alive.

[Fractalnavel]

There's an interesting variation of this where the context is having children in a generation ship. The answer to the question, as already pointed out, depends on the context, real or perceived. Was also thinking recently how multi-generational slavery could exist. Or other lives in desperate situations. If humans valued their lives somewhat less, it seems, that same life might be worth more. Or maybe it's actually valuing life more that would keep it from being started or spent in poor contexts.

Muddled thoughts.

[Portsekuro]

I don't see why natalism or antinatalism need to be treated as some universal moral law. If you're happy that you were born, that's great - if you wish you hadn't been, that's completely up to you.

For what purposes would you declare antinatalism a moral imperative? If you accept that premise, do you then have a duty to prevent as many people from being born as possible? Should you use violence to force people to refrain from having children against their will? Is it even justified to kill people if it means preventing them from suffering by being alive?

(By the same token, I do think that natalism has a coercive effect in society. People are pressured to conform to the institution of the nuclear family in order to produce and raise children - women in particular are affected by this as they generally are expected to do most of the work when it comes to childrearing. I think restrictions on abortion can be viewed in this way as well.)

[Haganham]

Not unless they did so when they unable, or unwilling, to provide a good environment for a child to grow up in. So much outside of that home life is outside of their control and is unpredictable. Few of the troubles the world has now were foreseeable when I was born, for example.
If you want to blame people for your life being miserable then start with the people who made that misery, rather then the people who gave you life.

[Ethel mermania]

I think its fine to hate parents for being shitty parents or crappy human beings in general.

For the fact that you were born? At best its a sign of mental illness that probably should not go untreated.

[Merconitonitopia]

Yes. Nobody consents to being born. Its a decision made for us.

I'm happy that decision was made for me.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I don't see why natalism or antinatalism need to be treated as some universal moral law. If you're happy that you were born, that's great - if you wish you hadn't been, that's completely up to you.

For what purposes would you declare antinatalism a moral imperative? If you accept that premise, do you then have a duty to prevent as many people from being born as possible? Should you use violence to force people to refrain from having children against their will? Is it even justified to kill people if it means preventing them from suffering by being alive?

(By the same token, I do think that natalism has a coercive effect in society. People are pressured to conform to the institution of the nuclear family in order to produce and raise children - women in particular are affected by this as they generally are expected to do most of the work when it comes to childrearing. I think restrictions on abortion can be viewed in this way as well.)

I would argue that pressure into nuclear family can harm men as much as women- men are usually expected to be “the producers” and “the defenders” of the family and thus are expected to work harder and earn more financially

[Thethen]

Is everything okay?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Is everything okay?

As you can probably guess it’s not but this is not relevant to the topic of the discussion

[Thethen]

I think its fine to hate parents for being shitty parents or crappy human beings in general.

For the fact that you were born? At best its a sign of mental illness that probably should not go untreated.

Not mental illness, more depression probably. None of us are psychiatrists, though, so this should be left to the professionals.

[Ethel mermania]

I think its fine to hate parents for being shitty parents or crappy human beings in general.

For the fact that you were born? At best its a sign of mental illness that probably should not go untreated.

Not mental illness, more depression probably. None of us are psychiatrists, though, so this should be left to the professionals.

Depression is a mental illness.

[The Holy Therns]

I would suggest a therapist might be a better person to discuss this with.

[Farnhamia]

No, nihilism is cringe anyway - but barring that...

Your parents didn't choose to have you. At least, not the version of you that exists as you are. They could have never known you'd be a nihilistic loser who thinks their life is genuinely that worthless that you'd be annoyed at the mere facet of existence. Maybe if they did they'd have chosen to have sex in a different position or on a different day of the week or something.

(This post directed at people who believe it is morally correct to dislike their parents for being created)

*** Warned for flaming ***

[Existential Cats]

Is it "morally correct"? Well for one, I'm a relativist, so I don't believe in morality to begin with. But even if I did, the whole matter of reproduction would seem to me to be entirely beyond morality, since it's something plants and animals and cells and anything we call life does. It's purely instinctual. You can be grateful or angry at your parents for bringing you into the world, but they weren't fulfilling or defying some moral imperative.

Yes. Nobody consents to being born. Its a decision made for us.

I don't find this argument convincing, as prior to conception, there was no "you" to begin with. It's not consensual or un-consensual, it's an act of creation.