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What Are Your Thoughts On Pledges Of Allegiance

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Makko Oko
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What Are Your Thoughts On Pledges Of Allegiance

Postby Makko Oko » Thu May 26, 2022 9:17 pm

I have an interesting debate, and I honestly have no position or opinion on the matter, but what are your thoughts on pledges of allegiance, it can be any country, but the US is the first example I can think of. Do you think it's illegal, do you think it should be mandated everywhere, share your thoughts and opinions.

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AJ Empire
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Postby AJ Empire » Thu May 26, 2022 9:20 pm

Makko Oko wrote:I have an interesting debate, and I honestly have no position or opinion on the matter, but what are your thoughts on pledges of allegiance, it can be any country, but the US is the first example I can think of. Do you think it's illegal, do you think it should be mandated everywhere, share your thoughts and opinions.

Pledge of allegiance sucks. It tries to make citizens loyal to a nation whether it's right or not. So it should be illegal
Last edited by AJ Empire on Thu May 26, 2022 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Thu May 26, 2022 9:21 pm

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the only countries that had pledges of allegiance are the USA and Nazi Germany. So ugh... I'm pretty sceptical toward the idea.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Thu May 26, 2022 9:21 pm

Makko Oko wrote:I have an interesting debate, and I honestly have no position or opinion on the matter, but what are your thoughts on pledges of allegiance, it can be any country, but the US is the first example I can think of. Do you think it's illegal, do you think it should be mandated everywhere, share your thoughts and opinions.

A little strange, but mostly harmless if it isn’t mandatory.

In my high school, pretty much everybody didn’t pay attention to it and it didn’t make a difference whether you followed it either way.
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Makko Oko
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Postby Makko Oko » Thu May 26, 2022 9:40 pm

Radiatia wrote:I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the only countries that had pledges of allegiance are the USA and Nazi Germany. So ugh... I'm pretty sceptical toward the idea.


Would singing the national anthem count?

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Thu May 26, 2022 9:43 pm

Pledges of Allegiance are not really needed and are kind of cringe. I don't think it should be in our schools.
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Postby Frisemark » Fri May 27, 2022 12:10 am

They should neither be mandatory nor forced on you in peer pressure, culturally.

The whole point of the First Amendment is that you can say and think and do what you want (within reason) with regards to these things. Just because people are under eighteen doesn't mean they don't get constitutional rights—normally. (This statement does not apply with regard to that silly little amendment that allows you to get firearms)

If you wanna do a little Pledge of Allegiance, go ahead. Don't make other people do it.
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 27, 2022 12:20 am

Radiatia wrote:I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the only countries that had pledges of allegiance are the USA and Nazi Germany. So ugh... I'm pretty sceptical toward the idea.

You are wrong
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_ ... he_Bahamas)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_ ... outh_Korea)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_ ... xican_Flag
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_ ... ppine_Flag
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Postby Vassenor » Fri May 27, 2022 12:25 am

Pledges of allegiance are for when you join the military or are elected to public office.

Not for school children and certainly not repeated daily.
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Postby Hamidiye » Fri May 27, 2022 4:45 am

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Postby Autumn Wind » Fri May 27, 2022 5:18 am

Vassenor wrote:Pledges of allegiance are for when you join the military or are elected to public office.

Not for school children and certainly not repeated daily.


Those would be oaths of office/enlistment. I was in the army for twelve years and we never recited the pledge of allegiance. There were a variety of other credos we recited, soldier’s/NCO’s creed, unit mottos, etc., but never the pledge of allegiance.
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Postby Risottia » Fri May 27, 2022 6:00 am

Makko Oko wrote:I have an interesting debate, and I honestly have no position or opinion on the matter, but what are your thoughts on pledges of allegiance, it can be any country, but the US is the first example I can think of. Do you think it's illegal, do you think it should be mandated everywhere, share your thoughts and opinions.

Who doesn't love swearing to a flag every day, especially with a nice raised-hand salute? Hail Hynkel!
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri May 27, 2022 6:11 am

Autumn Wind wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Pledges of allegiance are for when you join the military or are elected to public office.

Not for school children and certainly not repeated daily.


Those would be oaths of office/enlistment. I was in the army for twelve years and we never recited the pledge of allegiance. There were a variety of other credos we recited, soldier’s/NCO’s creed, unit mottos, etc., but never the pledge of allegiance.


OK. And?
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Postby Page » Fri May 27, 2022 6:17 am

I refused to stand for it in high school. I think it's ridiculous. Not really much else to say.
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Autumn Wind
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Postby Autumn Wind » Fri May 27, 2022 7:45 am

Vassenor wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
Those would be oaths of office/enlistment. I was in the army for twelve years and we never recited the pledge of allegiance. There were a variety of other credos we recited, soldier’s/NCO’s creed, unit mottos, etc., but never the pledge of allegiance.


OK. And?


If we don’t require public office holders and other civil servants to recite the pledge of allegiance, it make even less sense to have children rotely mouthing the words every morning.
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Postby Arcturus Novus » Fri May 27, 2022 8:08 am

I think they're the unhinged prayers of a civic religion. Idolatry in its weirdest form.
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Postby Sordhau » Fri May 27, 2022 8:23 am

It's literally Fascist lmao.
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Indomitable Friendship
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Postby Indomitable Friendship » Fri May 27, 2022 8:27 am

I never liked doing the POA and it always made me feel uncomfortable. I eventually abstained from doing it, permanently. It's just bare faced indoctrination meant to reinforce patriotism without a hint of critical thought. Shutting your brain off and repeating a rote, cult-like chant everyday is rather creepy when you think about it. I personally think it has no place in any form of education because it is inherently anti-intellectual and anti-individualist.

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Fri May 27, 2022 9:13 am

Requiring oaths of allegiance from military personnel or political figures is one thing — though it's clear that the latter don't take them seriously. But we should absolutely not be requiring minor children to swear oaths that they don't understand.

Especially with the words "under god" added.
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PhilTech
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Postby PhilTech » Fri May 27, 2022 9:38 am

For me, I honestly appreciate the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid. And up until now, I still appreciate it when elementary and secondary schools recite an oath of Pledge of Allegiance before classes. The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't really do much to be honest. In the end, is what they do in class is the end-all-be-all.

It is enough to inculcate to children to "know where they are" but not enough to brainwash them into thinking that your sole purpose is in this country alone. And besides, here in the Philippines, we need more dosages of nationalism and patriotism, a lot of Filipinos are leaving the country - and we are still suffering from brain drain because of it.

Indomitable Friendship wrote:because it is inherently anti-intellectual and anti-individualist.

This of course is only applicable to my country.

Lol? Anti-individualist? Well, still to this day...I am still a little bit of an asshole. So I am kinda bit ashamed of myself to be honest. :blush:

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Indomitable Friendship
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Postby Indomitable Friendship » Fri May 27, 2022 10:28 am

PhilTech wrote:For me, I honestly appreciate the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid. And up until now, I still appreciate it when elementary and secondary schools recite an oath of Pledge of Allegiance before classes. The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't really do much to be honest. In the end, is what they do in class is the end-all-be-all.

It is enough to inculcate to children to "know where they are" but not enough to brainwash them into thinking that your sole purpose is in this country alone. And besides, here in the Philippines, we need more dosages of nationalism and patriotism, a lot of Filipinos are leaving the country - and we are still suffering from brain drain because of it.

Indomitable Friendship wrote:because it is inherently anti-intellectual and anti-individualist.

This of course is only applicable to my country.

Lol? Anti-individualist? Well, still to this day...I am still a little bit of an asshole. So I am kinda bit ashamed of myself to be honest. :blush:


I get the rationale, but I don't think good vibes are enough to keep people in place that have better opportunity abroad, which is why they leave. Conversely, creative people are usually less conservative, so you're probably shooting yourself in the foot by cultivating such an atmosphere, too.

But yeah, pledges of allegiance are anti-individualist. The purpose is to cultivate the "us", instead of the "you". Should you really be proud of your country? Is it inherently good for you? Irrelevant, the government decides for you. All the POA ever did for me was push me farther away from the US. I never wanted to be told how to act or think, even as a kid, but that's just me.

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Aamayska
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Postby Aamayska » Fri May 27, 2022 10:44 am

The words "under God" are a problem for me as it sort of provides a barrier of entry for nationalism for non-abrahamic faiths and of course atheists. Also, I think introducing it so early lessons the impact of the words- you learn to say them before you really understand what they mean, which means you just end up repeating them every day without accomplishing the purpose. What's more, I think the wording could use some changes, maybe insert something in there about swearing a citizens duty to your fellow man or something.

Other than that, I'm pro-PoA as long as it remains optional. I think civic nationalism and patriotism can be a positive force in society and a positive, inclusive environment should be fostered for that purpose.

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Southern Republic of Dixie
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Postby Southern Republic of Dixie » Fri May 27, 2022 10:46 am

I think the United States does it right.
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Sacred Earth
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Postby Sacred Earth » Fri May 27, 2022 10:49 am

If I like the regime, then I can support it, if not, then against it.

In the USA, I would be against it.

By the way, this can cause irritation and be performed formally, so, ehhh...
Last edited by Sacred Earth on Fri May 27, 2022 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Fri May 27, 2022 10:51 am

Pointless ritual at best. Pretty much the same value as confederate statures. Cargo cult version of nationalism.
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