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Sinn Féin Party win most seats in Northern Ireland Assembly

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Cetacea
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Sinn Féin Party win most seats in Northern Ireland Assembly

Postby Cetacea » Wed May 25, 2022 5:22 am

Sinn Fein, the Irish nationalist party, has captured the largest number of seats in the Northern Ireland Assembly for the first time since the creation of Northern Island in 1921. As a result Sinn Fein will appoint the First Minister in the Northern Ireland Parliament, although that requires confirmation by the largest unionist party who will appoint the Deputy First minister (who in the NI system has co-equal authority).

While Sinn Fein has said that seeking unity and dealing with economic issues are the priority they remain commited to a vote for reunification with The Republic of Ireland in the ‘next 5 years’.

Unfortunately the largest unionist party DUP has so far refused to appoint a deputy first minister to participate and wont until they get changes to the Northern Island Brexit arrangements. They claim the unionist vote was fragmented because of the divisions within the community over whether or not the Northern Ireland Protocol is something that can be amended satisfactorily or whether it needs to be scrapped.

DUP have long had a strong attachment to the UK just as Sinn Fein has an attachment to an Independent Ireland, and tensions could rise if things are too long delayed. Though perhaps it is the middle ground that is growing with a compromise position that balances both Union and Nationalist priorities?

So rabble of NSG, where do you stand in these Troubles?
Last edited by Cetacea on Wed May 25, 2022 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed May 25, 2022 5:56 am

This is basically the DUP Throwing a strop that they are not the top dog any more, and basically everyone in NI knew they were going to do this as it was a long time coming where the Unionists would not be the majority any more, and they were able to do it because frankly, elements of the NI Executive and Assembly are broken and enable this kind of behaviour.

In my opinion several key things need to be addressed to make NI more stable and allow the executive to function properly:

1. How the Offices of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister are appointed.
2. The system of Mandatory Coalition
3. Community designation system / Petition of Concern mechanics



1. In my opinion the offices of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister need to be renamed Joint Minister to knock that stupid symbolic squabble in the head once and for all, the offices have the same authority, power and position but because of the name difference there is a ton of fear mongering every fucking election over it and it needs to end. Also how the offices are selected needs to be changed too, currently the office of FM is given to the largest party in Stormont (currently Sinn Fein) where as the office of DFM is given to the largest party of the largest community designation in Stormont, or if the largest party of the largest community is eligible for the office of FM, it goes to the largest party of the second largest community designation (So currently the DUP, despite their being more Unionist MLA's than Nationalists, Sinn Fein is the largest party overall).

In my opinion it needs to be changed to just whoever the two largest parties are can nominate for it regardless of their community designation, as the current system hamstrings parties such as Alliance, who are now the third largest party, and if they became the second largest party they would not be eligible for the office of DFM unless "Others" outnumbered either Unionists or Nationalists in the Assembly. And if a party refuses to take the office they are eligible for, they are immediately moved into the opposition and the office is presented to the next largest party etc

2. Mandatory coalition is fucking broken, i understand why it was made when the GFA was signed and Stormont was first established in its current form but the last number of years have shown that Stormont is largely crippled by this and infighting amongst parties in the executive that cannot fucking stand each other and it prevents anything from being done. It needs to be replaced by a system of voluntary coalition so that parties that actually wana work together can and parties that are opposed to them go into the opposition like in every other god damn democracy in the world. Oddly enough this is the one thing i agree with the TUV and Jim Allister on.

3. My main issue with the community designation system is how it plays into the usage of the petition of concern in Stormont. Currently, 30 MLA's can trigger a petition of concern on any legislation going through the Assembly on the grounds of cross community consent, where a piece of legislation then requires a weighted majority of 60% of MLAs and 40% support from both Nationalist and Unionist MLA's. But not Others, such as Alliance, Greens, People Before Profit etc which imo creates an unfair system where depending on your designation your vote basically matters more, and this is problematic especially when the "Other" bloc has been growing steadily over the last few years with Alliance having a historic win in this years election moving into third place.

It also turns every damn election into a sectarian headcount with fearmongering about how "Oh our community needs to be bigger! We cant let themuns win!". Fucking scrap it and let the parties stand on their merits and policies and not their designation. Or failing that at least change how the petition of concern works so that it requires the support of all three community groups or can be blocked by two of them or something.

Anyway rant over, fuck the dup for pulling this nonsense during all the crap currently going on, not only are we still dealing with a pandemic, costs are going up, the health service is in ruins and tonnes of people are suffering, but hey pull down the government because you dont get the fancy title. And yes that is what its about, because if brexit was not in play and Sinn Fein won an election like this the DUP would still refuse to go into government with them out of sectarian spite.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Wed May 25, 2022 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Wed May 25, 2022 5:58 am

The title of your thread is wildly inaccurate.

Sinn Fein have become the largest party in the Northern Ireland Assembly, so have won a plurality of seats, but they're not remotely close to having won a majority - they only won 29% of the vote and 27 of the 90 seats in the Assembly. The combined vote of Unionist parties is still (just) larger than the combined vote of the Nationalist parties.

Your post misses several crucial things about the politics of Northern Ireland:

1) The vote of nationalist parties has remained static since the first Assembly election in 1998, though over time Sinn Fein has replaced the more moderate SDLP as the largest nationalist party.

2) While the share of the vote won by Unionist parties has declined since 1998, this has not led to a significant rise in the Nationalist vote. Instead, the chief beneficiaries have been the non-sectarian non-aligned centrist Alliance Party. Therefore the overall trend over the last 25 years hasn't been towards nationalism, but towards non-sectarianism.

3) The First Minister and Deputy First Minister are co-equal posts with equal power who collectively lead the Northern Ireland Executive. The titles merely recognise who leads the larger party, not who wields the most power.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed May 25, 2022 6:03 am

The Archregimancy wrote:The title of your thread is wildly inaccurate.

Sinn Fein have become the largest party in the Northern Ireland Assembly, so have won a plurality of seats, but they're not remotely close to having won a majority - they only won 29% of the vote and 27 of the 90 seats in the Assembly. The combined vote of Unionist parties is still (just) larger than the combined vote of the Nationalist parties.

Your post misses several crucial things about the politics of Northern Ireland:

1) The vote of nationalist parties has remained static since the first Assembly election in 1998, though over time Sinn Fein has replaced the more moderate SDLP as the largest nationalist party.

2) While the share of the vote won by Unionist parties has declined since 1998, this has not led to a significant rise in the Nationalist vote. Instead, the chief beneficiaries have been the non-sectarian non-aligned centrist Alliance Party. Therefore the overall trend over the last 25 years hasn't been towards nationalism, but towards non-sectarianism.

3) The First Minister and Deputy First Minister are co-equal posts with equal power who collectively lead the Northern Ireland Executive. The titles merely recognise who leads the larger party, not who wields the most power.

Oh yeah also what Arch said, i was in a rush and already felt my post was too long as is
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Wed May 25, 2022 7:20 am

I see the title of the thread and the OP have now been corrected to reflect that Sinn Fein have won a plurality rather than a majority, and that the OP also now acknowledges the co-equal authority of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister.

Thank you, Cetacea, for making those important corrections / additions.

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Postby Old Tyrannia » Wed May 25, 2022 1:34 pm

As a British unionist and monarchist I am, of course, not pleased by the fact that an Irish republican nationalist party committed to leaving is now the largest party in the Northern Ireland Assembly. In fact it would be fair to say that I am extremely displeased by this turn of events. At the same time, I have to admit, however reluctantly, that Northern Irish unionist politicians largely created this situation themselves, and have to accept the blame for it. I don't agree with the DUP's obstruction tactics, but I think they'll play to their core base of hardline unionist Protestants; they probably realise that they have little realistic chance of winning back support from moderate unionists and neutrals, so tactically it's their best option. It's a little early to say what this outcome heralds for the future of Northern Ireland. Unification with the Republic is looking more likely than it has done in a long time, but it's still far from a certain outcome, so there is hope still for unionists.
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Postby Archinstinct » Wed May 25, 2022 3:55 pm

I welcome moves toward Irish nationalism in Northern Ireland, and concerned by move toward non-sectarianism. The Irish people have long been oppressed under the iron fist of the British, and Ireland itself is historically one of the first victims of imperialism by the British. The blight of 1847 was a ethnic genocide against catholic Irish by protestant England which angers me to think about. It still angers me to know that Ireland is still partly occupied by the British colonizers. I hope someday ALL of Ireland be free.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Wed May 25, 2022 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hukhalia » Wed May 25, 2022 5:07 pm

Archinstinct wrote:I welcome moves toward Irish nationalism in Northern Ireland, and concerned by move toward non-sectarianism. The Irish people have long been oppressed under the iron fist of the British, and Ireland itself is historically one of the first victims of imperialism by the British. The blight of 1847 was a ethnic genocide against catholic Irish by protestant England which angers me to think about. It still angers me to know that Ireland is still partly occupied by the British colonizers. I hope someday ALL of Ireland be free.

non-sectarianism is good, NI unionism is bad. if you seriously want the destruction of british imperialism in ireland then it's best not to divide the lads by religion, but rather unite them

regardless, the reunification of ireland on a national basis isn't the end of british imperialism on the island, far from it. ireland is still very much economically dependent on britain, with its main trading partners being britain and the US. until ireland adopts a socialist model of production it will always be ruled by anglo-american businesses and trade.

there's also the fact that ireland is in the imperial core anyway and arguably benefits from the oppression of the third world by anglo-american imperialism far more than it is hindered by it, but people like to ignore that lol
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Postby Archinstinct » Wed May 25, 2022 5:15 pm

Hukhalia wrote:non-sectarianism is good, NI unionism is bad. if you seriously want the destruction of british imperialism in ireland then it's best not to divide the lads by religion, but rather unite them

regardless, the reunification of ireland on a national basis isn't the end of british imperialism on the island, far from it. ireland is still very much economically dependent on britain, with its main trading partners being britain and the US. until ireland adopts a socialist model of production it will always be ruled by anglo-american businesses and trade.

there's also the fact that ireland is in the imperial core anyway and arguably benefits from the oppression of the third world by anglo-american imperialism far more than it is hindered by it, but people like to ignore that lol


No thanks. I'd rather not see Ireland trade one kind of tyranny for an even shittier kind of tyranny.
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Postby Hukhalia » Wed May 25, 2022 5:17 pm

Archinstinct wrote:
Hukhalia wrote:non-sectarianism is good, NI unionism is bad. if you seriously want the destruction of british imperialism in ireland then it's best not to divide the lads by religion, but rather unite them

regardless, the reunification of ireland on a national basis isn't the end of british imperialism on the island, far from it. ireland is still very much economically dependent on britain, with its main trading partners being britain and the US. until ireland adopts a socialist model of production it will always be ruled by anglo-american businesses and trade.

there's also the fact that ireland is in the imperial core anyway and arguably benefits from the oppression of the third world by anglo-american imperialism far more than it is hindered by it, but people like to ignore that lol


No thanks. I'd rather not see Ireland trade one kind of tyranny for an even shittier kind of tyranny.

your support for irish freedom is therefore paper-thin and pointless tbh, ireland never stopped being ruled by the british.
"It was this alone that drew so many Europeans to colonial North America: the dream in the settler mind of each man becoming a petty lord of his own land. Thus, the tradition of individualism and egalitarianism in America was rooted in the poisoned concept of equal privileges for a new nation of European conquerors." J. Sakai

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Postby Archinstinct » Wed May 25, 2022 5:20 pm

Hukhalia wrote:your support for irish freedom is therefore paper-thin and pointless tbh, ireland never stopped being ruled by the british.


Cool Story Bro.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Wed May 25, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 5:25 pm

I think a state of national emergency should be considered. If Northern Ireland is maneuvered by politicians towards secession, wouldn’t this weaken the United Kingdom?

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Postby Archinstinct » Wed May 25, 2022 5:30 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:I think a state of national emergency should be considered. If Northern Ireland is maneuvered by politicians towards secession, wouldn’t this weaken the United Kingdom?


No.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 5:36 pm

Archinstinct wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I think a state of national emergency should be considered. If Northern Ireland is maneuvered by politicians towards secession, wouldn’t this weaken the United Kingdom?


No.


If Northern Ireland secedes in a 5 year framework, would the GDP, resources, population, power, prestige, lands etc of the UK increase or decrease? I think that’s clear.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed May 25, 2022 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Heloin » Wed May 25, 2022 5:45 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:
No.


If Northern Ireland secedes in a 5 year framework, would the GDP, resources, population, power, prestige, lands etc of the UK increase or decrease? I think that’s clear.

Northern Ireland makes up just under 3% of the population of the whole UK and under 6% of land area. The lose would be negligible if that for the rest of the Union.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 5:58 pm

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
If Northern Ireland secedes in a 5 year framework, would the GDP, resources, population, power, prestige, lands etc of the UK increase or decrease? I think that’s clear.

Northern Ireland makes up just under 3% of the population of the whole UK and under 6% of land area. The lose would be negligible if that for the rest of the Union.


And the UK is okay with this?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed May 25, 2022 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Heloin » Wed May 25, 2022 6:12 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Northern Ireland makes up just under 3% of the population of the whole UK and under 6% of land area. The lose would be negligible if that for the rest of the Union.


And the UK is okay with this?

Aside from their opinion being totally irrelevant to the situation the popular consensus seems to be slightly in favour of Union above a United Ireland but above that most people seem to not really care either way.
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed May 25, 2022 6:32 pm

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
And the UK is okay with this?

Aside from their opinion being totally irrelevant to the situation the popular consensus seems to be slightly in favour of Union above a United Ireland but above that most people seem to not really care either way.

Support for secession or independence rises just slightly somewhere in the world and IM immediately wakes up from his bed, sweating, demanding direct rule and military intervention.

Anyway, if a government could be formed I'm very interested in seeing how Sinn Fein performs with regards to its more left-leaning policies.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Wed May 25, 2022 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hukhalia » Wed May 25, 2022 6:35 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Heloin wrote:Aside from their opinion being totally irrelevant to the situation the popular consensus seems to be slightly in favour of Union above a United Ireland but above that most people seem to not really care either way.

Support for secession or independence rises just slightly somewhere in the world and IM immediately wakes up from his bed, sweating, demanding direct rule and military intervention.

Anyway, if a government could be formed I'm very interested in seeing how Sinn Fein performs with regards to its more left-leaning policies.

spoiler alert: milquetoast and ineffective social democracy at "best"
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 8:37 pm

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
And the UK is okay with this?

Aside from their opinion being totally irrelevant to the situation the popular consensus seems to be slightly in favour of Union above a United Ireland but above that most people seem to not really care either way.


The UK would try to prevent secession right? In the event that this Irish party moves for it?

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 8:37 pm

Hukhalia wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Support for secession or independence rises just slightly somewhere in the world and IM immediately wakes up from his bed, sweating, demanding direct rule and military intervention.

Anyway, if a government could be formed I'm very interested in seeing how Sinn Fein performs with regards to its more left-leaning policies.

spoiler alert: milquetoast and ineffective social democracy at "best"


I think so yes. Better to stay with the UK.

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 25, 2022 8:39 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Aside from their opinion being totally irrelevant to the situation the popular consensus seems to be slightly in favour of Union above a United Ireland but above that most people seem to not really care either way.


The UK would try to prevent secession right? In the event that this Irish party moves for it?


No, they wouldn't. It was part of the peace agreement that the British government would respect whatever choice Northern Ireland makes on the matter. To go back on that would almost immediately lead to car bombs going off in London again.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 8:40 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The UK would try to prevent secession right? In the event that this Irish party moves for it?


No, they wouldn't. It was part of the peace agreement that the British government would respect whatever choice Northern Ireland makes on the matter. To go back on that would almost immediately lead to car bombs going off in London again.


Wouldn’t that be terrorism?

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 25, 2022 8:42 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
No, they wouldn't. It was part of the peace agreement that the British government would respect whatever choice Northern Ireland makes on the matter. To go back on that would almost immediately lead to car bombs going off in London again.


Wouldn’t that be terrorism?


Yes, it would be. And given the PIRA's command structure still exists in some form it's probably not something the British want to restart.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Wouldn’t that be terrorism?


Yes, it would be. And given the PIRA's command structure still exists in some form it's probably not something the British want to restart.


Is it acceptable in this day and age to influence the UK’s sovereignty issues with threats/implied threats of terrorism?

“Well… as an extra argument on their side, if we don’t agree, they might start bombing us. At least their more extremist elements.”

That’s not really okay right? How good are the UK’s counter terrorist and law enforcement units? And would Ireland cooperate?

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