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NSWC91 :: Cup of Harmony Bid

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Turori
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NSWC91 :: Cup of Harmony Bid

Postby Turori » Mon May 23, 2022 2:04 pm

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Turori and Zwangzug are currently assisting the WC91 qualifiers as part of a four-host bid, and this tournament bid will be an extension of that one.

Tiebreakers (same as WC91): points, goal difference, head-to-head record, head-to-head goal difference, IC coin flip (OOC: game scorinated without ranks using only RP bonus as input). In the event of a multiple team tie, the tiebreakers will be applied in order until one team is eliminated, and then again from the top until the next team is eliminated, until all teams are ranked.

Format: we have a preference for single round-robin, groups of 4.

Invitations: The CoH is an invitational tournament to reward those nations who RP during World Cup Qualifying. We will aim to invite teams that have posted the equivalent of four "average" RPs in the WC91 qualifiers. As of this writing (over halfway through qualifiers), there are approximately 75 teams that have done so with approximately 21 more that are halfway there (ie, "on pace" to reach it by the end of qualifiers, depending on their second-half output and the schedule). The bulk of the 30 qualifiers will probably come from this group, therefore, at this time we estimate about 48 to 64 teams will be invited.

Scorination: Continuing as in the qualifiers, we will use xkoranate with SQIS and additive mods, (note that this is not the same as the WC proper), bonus directly added to "ranks" (no "percentage" toggle), and cumulative RP bonus. We will carry over up to two cutoffs' worth of bonus from the qualifiers, representing the best and average bonus.
<Silexhera> Why does Turori make sense? :p

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon May 23, 2022 5:46 pm

Imagine I made this post with Saint Eleanor.

While the World Cup is using NSFS, a decision that Farf and Grænt have both justified, you plan for the Cup of Harmony to use the SQIS formula that has been used throughout qualifying. What motivates the proposed use of SQIS?

In the event that a team is invited to the Cup of Harmony, how will they confirm their intention to participate? (CoH81 used roster signups; CoH82 used telegram confirmation.)

Should the number of final signups not facilitate "groups of 4," will any signing-up nations be cut? And, if so, what criteria will be used? (CoH71 split its 29 signups into five groups of four and three groups of three. Grænt and Licen just withdrew their nations from CoH82 when this situation threatened to arise, although it's unlikely that Turori and Zwangzug the nations will have this option at their disposal when CoH83 comes around - Margaret willing, naturally.)

Will the possibility of a CoH81-style playoff stage (where runners-up and the best third-placed teams in each group had to win a "Round of 22" tie to join group winners in the last 16) be entertained if the numbers demand it?
Last edited by Tinhampton on Mon May 23, 2022 5:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Strike
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Postby Strike » Mon May 23, 2022 6:09 pm

>> In the interest of transitioning smoothly between qualifying and the CoH we will not require a roster signup to confirm a CoH invitation this time around. Confirmation via Telegram or other means will also be accepted. The rationale for this is simple. Everyone invited to the CoH will have already posted a roster for this cycle in the WC Roster thread. We will link directly to that roster in the first post of the RP thread until the point which a user posts a separate roster in the CoH thread. Since its not a requirement to post a second roster in order to compete in the World Cup Finals it seems a little silly to require it in order to participate in the CoH - especially, again, considering you basically have to have posted one to begin with just to get an invite. Not sure exactly when the vote will end or when MD1 of the World Cup will be but trying to figure out formats and numbers and all the time being held up wondering if nation X is going to have time to confirm with an entire new roster post vs. simply confirming their intent to participate - just not necessary IMO. You've demonstrated the ability to post a roster and RP sufficiently to get the invite, I can trust you'll do your best to roster in a timely fashion once more. And if you don't, everyone still has a roster for your nation this cycle anyway.

>> Nations don't sign up to the CoH, they get invite. I'm sure we will have a list of bubble teams based on numbers that we could turn to on a case by case basis if someone doesn't confirm and leaves us with an odd number of teams. I would think our preference would lean towards loosening the criteria belt a tad to add a nation before we would try going the other way and cutting someone.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon May 23, 2022 6:13 pm

I'm well aware that Cups of Harmony don't have signups (poor wording on my part) - I should know, I've participated in six of them! Otherwise, thanks for answering my last three questions (an answer to the first would be appreciated but by no means required; I'm just overly curious :P).
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
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Zwangzug
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Postby Zwangzug » Mon May 23, 2022 7:20 pm

I (Zwang) view the CoH as being more similar to the WC qualifiers than the WC proper is; the CoH will very likely have more teams than the WC and is, in my opinion, a good setting for more variability/less top-heaviness. SQIS allows for this well.
Last edited by Zwangzug on Mon May 23, 2022 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Independent Athletes from Quebec
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Postby Independent Athletes from Quebec » Mon May 23, 2022 9:51 pm

This bid has my absolute support.

I guess this question applies to you guys and possibly Farf and Graint: When do we expect rough MD1-date for the group stage?

This doesn't affect my vote as have said above, but I would like to at least have a rough grasp at it as I may be busy at some parts of June. Earlier I know, the better I can get ready for either tournament, assuming they run around same time period.
Last edited by Independent Athletes from Quebec on Mon May 23, 2022 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PotatoFarmers
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Postby PotatoFarmers » Wed May 25, 2022 4:21 am

Like I said in the other bid thread, sometimes these bids all look similar that it ends up being a competition of which guy you trust more. The "advantage" this bid may have is that it is a Vilitan bid following the WCQ - but apart from that? May the hosts make a pitch on why this is, in your opinion, the "better" bid, or if you like, the bid to choose?
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Strike
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Postby Strike » Wed May 25, 2022 5:50 am

There are some minor differences but yes many things are similar even down to the justification for not requiring a roster signup. This one did post it first though... :D In all seriousness though, among other things, one of the advantages of the Vilitan Bid System is that you have a set of hosts that follows through an entire cycle. There are more and more RP arcs that require backstories and context and the active cycle hosts have already been reading and into the backstory for these RPs since the start of the cycle requiring no additional learning curve to jump in if selected to continue the job they have already started. It also enables us to seamlessly do an RP carryover into the CoH rewarding those users based on qualifying - because we consider it just like the World Cup Finals - which it is for the nations who are participating. I do like this format because then you have a dedicated set of hosts who have been cutting off at a dedicated time over a set period. Instead of just having to trust the words hosts put in their bid, you've seen it from Turori & Zwangzug for the past two weeks. You've seen the prompt cutoffs and scores posted within minutes of the cutoff thanks to the scorination rhythm that the hosts have gained in their personal schedules. The unknowns are already mitigated from that perspective.

Outside of that, All I can say is with Turori and Zwangzug you get prompt scorination and a history of hosting tournaments with plenty of user engagement in the thread itself. As an example, both are prior hosts of the Eagle's Cup providing RP Prompts which regularly get talked about in the discord and/or receive praise from the participants. You get nations with a history of interaction coming together for the first time to host a tournament and it would be the first WCC tournament ICly hosted in Turori since the creation of twii.tur, the widely used social RP platform which, among other well known Turorian companies like Cocoa-bo and the Tiones Lumberjack Competition will almost certainly have a presence at the games!

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Zwangzug
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Postby Zwangzug » Wed May 25, 2022 2:16 pm

PotatoFarmers wrote:Like I said in the other bid thread, sometimes these bids all look similar that it ends up being a competition of which guy you trust more. The "advantage" this bid may have is that it is a Vilitan bid following the WCQ - but apart from that? May the hosts make a pitch on why this is, in your opinion, the "better" bid, or if you like, the bid to choose?

I'll be candid and say that I do think that the Vilitan bid following the WCQ (that is, we have access to accumulated RP bonuses, and invitation doesn't need to require anyone else to re-"estimate" them or more specific WCQ data shared beyond the original team) is the main point in our favor. I don't particularly feel a desire to host for its own sake, I just think that especially in a format like the WC, splitting qualifiers among more than two people makes it less of a chore and that's good for the community overall, so that's why I like participating in Vilitan plan bids.

As a caveat to what Turori said: I had not read a whole lot of the RPs from the half I was going to grade before taking over at halfway, so for some of the storylines I was jumping in "midstream" too, as it were. (But even without context, I'm able to make an overall assessment of the individual post at hand!) Also, it's true that I had posted some random prompts with the Eagles' Club, but you shouldn't consider that a guarantee that I'd do the same here (I'm happy to if people want, but last time I tried something similar in the WBC there was relatively little uptake).

And of course, I have confidence that Mertagne and Tumbra would make excellent hosts should their bid be selected!
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Saterun
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Postby Saterun » Wed May 25, 2022 2:51 pm

You probably already know this, But Zwang are 2nd in their qualifying group and Turori are 1st in theirs. How will you balance out scorination in the CoH and RPs in the WC(assuming you qualify for it)?
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Strike
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Postby Strike » Wed May 25, 2022 3:35 pm

Saterun wrote:You probably already know this, But Zwang are 2nd in their qualifying group and Turori are 1st in theirs. How will you balance out scorination in the CoH and RPs in the WC(assuming you qualify for it)?


Thanks for the question! With the way that the 4-host World Cup System works, Zwangzug and myself are actually doing just that right now in World Cup Qualifying - RPing our nations to such a level where we can compete to be Top 3 in our groups while also scorinating matches. It will just be more of the same once the CoH / WC Finals come around. Of course, in the event that either or both of Turori/Zwangzug end up in the CoH then those matches would be scorinated by the opposite host per norm.

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Xanneria
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Postby Xanneria » Wed May 25, 2022 4:31 pm

When do you plan on opening CoH sign ups and with what method do you plan on using for sign ups?

I ask cause I have a vacation next that may get in the way of CoH signups.
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Strike
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Postby Strike » Wed May 25, 2022 4:46 pm

While it would be ideal to start sending invitations as soon as possible as there are many nations that have already well exceeded our expected invitation criteria, you will note the vote deadline for the CoH is Sunday 29 May. If Turori/Zwangzug are selected to continue our hosting of the WC91 Cycle into this Cup of Harmony we will be able to immediately begin sending out invitations that evening or the following day depending on what time the host announcement is made as we already have direct access to all the RP information for this cycle.

I would expect at least 5-7 days from that point for invitations to be accepted and possibly longer depending on the announced schedule for the World Cup Finals, which we will try to work around. There should be ample time for any invited nation to indicate their intention to participate in the competition.

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Independent Athletes from Quebec
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Postby Independent Athletes from Quebec » Wed May 25, 2022 5:16 pm

Strike wrote:While it would be ideal to start sending invitations as soon as possible as there are many nations that have already well exceeded our expected invitation criteria, you will note the vote deadline for the CoH is Sunday 29 May. If Turori/Zwangzug are selected to continue our hosting of the WC91 Cycle into this Cup of Harmony we will be able to immediately begin sending out invitations that evening or the following day depending on what time the host announcement is made as we already have direct access to all the RP information for this cycle.

I would expect at least 5-7 days from that point for invitations to be accepted and possibly longer depending on the announced schedule for the World Cup Finals, which we will try to work around. There should be ample time for any invited nation to indicate their intention to participate in the competition.

Perfect. I am not worried about how prompt you and Zwangzug are with scorinations, updates and feedbacks.

This gives me further assurance. I am convinced even further to the bid I have absolute support for. Thank you.


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