NATION

PASSWORD

What do you think of The Dark Forest Theory?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 94
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

What do you think of The Dark Forest Theory?

Postby New Galactic States » Fri May 20, 2022 4:43 pm

As the title Implies
What do you think of The Dark Forest Theory?
For any of you who don’t know what the dark forest theory is:
The Dark Forest is a solution for why we haven’t found aliens, it says that aliens are actually hiding, the reason for hiding is either 2 things
1. There is a Big Evil Alien Empire thing that is a danger to anything it sees, so they hide from it to not go extinct
2. Aliens are afraid of finding more advanced aliens who will kill them, but so are the other aliens, so no one is brave enough to send out a signal
Personally I feel like the dark forest is a good explanation to why we haven’t found aliens.

So what are your thoughts?

User avatar
Space Squid
Diplomat
 
Posts: 806
Founded: Feb 04, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Space Squid » Fri May 20, 2022 5:16 pm

So land-centric.

I hold to the Dark Water Theory:
Image
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠠⠄⢠
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣁⠴⠛⠋⠀⠀⡎
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠔⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⡎⠰⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠜⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠒⠁⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⢀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣶⡓⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠜⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⢠⣪⠖⠒⢮⣢⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⢊⢕⣢⡌⢦⠀⢤⣠⠔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⢳⣴⠷⠃⠔⣒⠚⠇⡢⠠⠤⠺⠃⠘⢞⣋⠅⢠⠧⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡀⠀⣔⣕⣁⣤⣬⢦⣤⣭⠤⢂⡀⠀⣀⡀⠔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠉⢋⡿⢛⣭⣴⣶⡿⢉⣤⣴⣿⠀⠁⡇⠀⢀⠠⠤⠀⠤⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⣮⠁⣾⠟⠉⠀⢰⡘⡿⠁⣿⣄⠣⡍⠉⠔⠊⠉⠉⢱⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠿⠀⢹⠀⢀⣼⠟⠉⢊⠆⠻⣿⢓⠪⠥⡂⢄⠀⠀⢗⢅⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠘⡹⡉⠀⢸⣟⠀⢀⢜⠆⠀⠹⣻⢦⡀⠈⡄⡇⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠈⠺⢄⠀⠹⡆⠻⠁⠀⢀⡴⡹⠀⠻⣄⣽⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⣜⣦⠀⠀⠀⢠⡗⠉⠀⠀⠀⢩⡌⠙⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢽⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠓⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠫⣛⡄⠀⢀⢴⣾⣗⡶⢠⡴⠗⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

User avatar
New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 94
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Galactic States » Fri May 20, 2022 5:22 pm

Space Squid wrote:So land-centric.

I hold to the Dark Water Theory:

I was looking at that comic


Then it hit me:

“Why are those 2 people walking on the middle of the ocean?”

User avatar
USS Monitor
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 30302
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Fri May 20, 2022 5:26 pm

This is my first time hearing it, but... That's not a theory. It's a hypothesis that doesn't even make sense.

Are humans hiding? No.

Are pine trees, dolphins, paramecia, and [pick another species of your choice] hiding? No.

Are all living things on Earth intelligent enough to hide? No.

Are all living things on Earth mobile enough to hide? No

So why the fuck would every species on every inhabited planet except Earth want to hide, know how to hide, and have the mobility to hide -- but we're the only planet in the universe that didn't get the memo? That's complete bullshit.

We haven't found aliens because there are not any in our solar system, and other solar systems are really far away. There isn't any need for any further explanation once you wrap your head around just how far "really far away" is.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
NationStates issues editors may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. In case of accidental ingestion, please seek immediate medical assistance.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
Fachumonn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 981
Founded: Apr 11, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fachumonn » Fri May 20, 2022 5:29 pm

This doesn't make sense and isn't true.


WA Ambassador: The People | Pronouns: He/Him/His/They/Them/Their | RL Ideology: Libertarian Socialism/Anarcho-Communism | GP Alignment: Independent, Leans Defender

User avatar
Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10374
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Fri May 20, 2022 5:31 pm

The dark forest is the one overlooking Trago Mills on the A38 that I'm just about not-afraid to think of despite the fact I'm in London now
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; *author of the most popular WA resolution ever
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

User avatar
New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 94
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Galactic States » Fri May 20, 2022 5:32 pm

USS Monitor wrote:This is my first time hearing it, but... That's not a theory. It's a hypothesis that doesn't even make sense.

Are humans hiding? No.

Are pine trees, dolphins, paramecia, and [pick another species of your choice] hiding? No.

Are all living things on Earth intelligent enough to hide? No.

Are all living things on Earth mobile enough to hide? No

So why the fuck would every species on every inhabited planet except Earth want to hide, know how to hide, and have the mobility to hide -- but we're the only planet in the universe that didn't get the memo? That's complete bullshit.

We haven't found aliens because there are not any in our solar system, and other solar systems are really far away. There isn't any need for any further explanation once you wrap your head around just how far "really far away" is.

Imagine this:

Your a hunter, you one day find a hunter who is more advanced than you, and willing to kill you if he knew about you, what do you do?, you hide.

Thats pretty much how the dark forest goes, also aliens might know the risk off going into space, they don’t know whats out there and there could be something in the shadows.

As for us?, were just one of the few species who dont hide, one day though, the hunters may find us.

User avatar
Gikyoku
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: May 16, 2022
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Gikyoku » Fri May 20, 2022 5:38 pm

To my knowledge, the OP had omitted an important aspect of the Dark Forest hypothesis as I understand it. Specifically, an aspect of it that goes something like this:

-Species are naturally inclined towards self-preservation.
-When making contact, it is possible than an alien civilisation may care nothing about your and desire your destruction for its own self-preservation.
-Therefore, the best approach for alien civilisations who encounter each other is to attempt to destroy the potential enemy first. And of course, if you happen upon a more primitive species or life-bearing world, that only makes it all the easier to eliminate the threat before it can even develop.

So it’s less a matter of everyone hiding as it is a matter of mass destruction being the most logical course upon contact.

There are still flaws in the hypothesis of course, but I feel like this aspect of it deserves to be represented.
A land of total (mandatory) happiness and perfect (tyrannical) love!
You know who this is. | PMT-FanT | Theme of the Nation
GOOD NEWS: Euphoria Division reports over 1000 successful rehabilitations in the past week! - Black Sugar production increased by over 120%! - Country prepares for Matchmaker Day celebrations!

User avatar
Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6759
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Fri May 20, 2022 5:52 pm

Didn't the author say "My books were supposed to escape reality not comment on it"?

Regardless of the applicability of it's conclusion that's hardly an endorsement of it's logic.
#NSTransparency

User avatar
Czardas
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 6889
Founded: Feb 25, 2005
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Czardas » Fri May 20, 2022 6:11 pm

I have a somewhat different theory for why we have yet to contact alien life:

- Sentient life tends to develop infrequently, requiring certain types of star systems and certain types of planets etc, and therefore is usually located hundreds of light years (or even further) away from other sentient life.
- It is not possible to travel faster than light, and there are insurmountable engineering problems involved in trying to travel even at high fractions of the speed of light. Therefore, it would take so long to reach other areas where sentient life is located that no one does it because they have better things to do with their time.
- As such, we haven’t found aliens because, if they exist, they’re probably very far away and would take thousands or millions of years to reach.

I’m still trying to think of a suitable name for this hypothesis. Perhaps the “Really Big Universe Theory”.
30 | she/her | USA | ✡︎ | ☭ | ♫

I have devised a truly marvelous signature, which this textblock is too small to contain

User avatar
The Snazzylands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 679
Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby The Snazzylands » Fri May 20, 2022 8:46 pm

If the theory were true, there would only be one country in the world because all the other ones were wiped out. It doesn't make sense unless you're making the assumption intelligent alien lifeforms are all genocidal maniacs for some reason.

Space Squid wrote:So land-centric.

I hold to the Dark Water Theory:

Galaxy-brain take.
Mind awaits entrance
Of a witty signature.
One has yet to come.

User avatar
PhilTech
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 440
Founded: Sep 29, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby PhilTech » Fri May 20, 2022 9:18 pm

My thoughts?

If it's true then I'll find it as more of a good reason to focus on what's present than this crap.
Last edited by PhilTech on Fri May 20, 2022 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Haganham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 936
Founded: Aug 17, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Haganham » Fri May 20, 2022 9:58 pm

the dark forest theory doesn't pan out since it relies on a predatory species to enforce the dark forest, thing is if there were such a species we'd be able to detect it.
Isaac Arthur has a pretty through analysis of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBn8bc0k-I
Remember kids, if it doesn't have private property rights, competitive markets and voluntary exchange then it's just sparkling feudalism.
TITO Tactial Officer
Assistant WA secretary: 10000 Islands, TEP
Praefectus Praetorio, Caesar: Oatland
Cartographer: Forest

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6679
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Fri May 20, 2022 10:00 pm

USS Monitor wrote:This is my first time hearing it, but... That's not a theory. It's a hypothesis that doesn't even make sense.

Are humans hiding? No.

Are pine trees, dolphins, paramecia, and [pick another species of your choice] hiding? No.

Are all living things on Earth intelligent enough to hide? No.

Are all living things on Earth mobile enough to hide? No

So why the fuck would every species on every inhabited planet except Earth want to hide, know how to hide, and have the mobility to hide -- but we're the only planet in the universe that didn't get the memo? That's complete bullshit.

We haven't found aliens because there are not any in our solar system, and other solar systems are really far away. There isn't any need for any further explanation once you wrap your head around just how far "really far away" is.

Here's a video that better explains it.
Its not a real theory no, but pretty much nothing surrounding potential extraterrestrial life is.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24950
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat May 21, 2022 1:25 am

Personally if someone is so advanced that the distance between stars is trivial then what would one planet's hyper evolved mold be compared to the hundreds of other planets. Besides what is the probability that nearby stars would have intelligent life that is both industrial enough to have radio but not so digitised that radio signal strength weakens as communication tech becomes more efficient. That we haven't communicated with anyone only makes sense when you think of the probability involved instead of imagining a stellar empire that despite decades of fiction would never function how we like to write them functioning.
Honkbal Hoofdklasse on my radio tonight, I hear the team announcements and I know the time is right
And I know I mustn't say it though I feel it in the air, a home run for Rotterdam's Dirk van Beer!


Proudly Zimbabwean | Industrial Workers of the World | Armenian Red Cross | Help Gaza's Children
Harmless Historical Nut | Space Pirate | Nana's Attic Rabbit DJ

User avatar
Chan Island
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6466
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Sat May 21, 2022 2:07 am

If the Dark Forest were true, there would be a reason for it, and we would almost certainly be able to detect that reason. Even if it was just the space equivalent of giant, scary footprints.

I think there are better explanations for the Fermi Paradox.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24950
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat May 21, 2022 2:54 am

Chan Island wrote:If the Dark Forest were true, there would be a reason for it, and we would almost certainly be able to detect that reason. Even if it was just the space equivalent of giant, scary footprints.

I think there are better explanations for the Fermi Paradox.

Space Whales.
Honkbal Hoofdklasse on my radio tonight, I hear the team announcements and I know the time is right
And I know I mustn't say it though I feel it in the air, a home run for Rotterdam's Dirk van Beer!


Proudly Zimbabwean | Industrial Workers of the World | Armenian Red Cross | Help Gaza's Children
Harmless Historical Nut | Space Pirate | Nana's Attic Rabbit DJ

User avatar
Catalonia 2070 RP
Envoy
 
Posts: 317
Founded: Sep 29, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Catalonia 2070 RP » Sat May 21, 2022 2:56 am

I think the dark forest theory is an interesting one

User avatar
New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 94
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Galactic States » Sat May 21, 2022 4:10 am

You all have good points, but I still hold to the Idea that it’s True

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72524
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 21, 2022 9:28 am

Chan Island wrote:If the Dark Forest were true, there would be a reason for it, and we would almost certainly be able to detect that reason. Even if it was just the space equivalent of giant, scary footprints.

I think there are better explanations for the Fermi Paradox.

The explanation could be that we are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Alien life could exist but it might be in the center of the galaxy or on the side farthest from us and we just happen to live in a life desert.
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Latvijas Otra Republika
Minister
 
Posts: 3041
Founded: Feb 22, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Sat May 21, 2022 9:50 am

Space is incomprehensibly large, most rare super-intelligent species probably live and die out without ever fully going far into the void.
Last edited by Latvijas Otra Republika on Sat May 21, 2022 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Free Navalny, Back Gobzems

User avatar
Latvijas Otra Republika
Minister
 
Posts: 3041
Founded: Feb 22, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Sat May 21, 2022 9:51 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Chan Island wrote:If the Dark Forest were true, there would be a reason for it, and we would almost certainly be able to detect that reason. Even if it was just the space equivalent of giant, scary footprints.

I think there are better explanations for the Fermi Paradox.

The explanation could be that we are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Alien life could exist but it might be in the center of the galaxy or on the side farthest from us and we just happen to live in a life desert.

We're in the ghetto of the milky way
Free Navalny, Back Gobzems

User avatar
Partybus
Minister
 
Posts: 2227
Founded: Oct 20, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Partybus » Sat May 21, 2022 10:53 am

I don't believe it.

*removes computer from SETI network*

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6679
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Sat May 21, 2022 10:54 am

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:The explanation could be that we are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Alien life could exist but it might be in the center of the galaxy or on the side farthest from us and we just happen to live in a life desert.

We're in the ghetto of the milky way

Nah we're a fucking nature reserve, where the aliens can come and laugh at the stupid monkeys who just entered the atomic age, which they surpassed a million years ago.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Neptunvia
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Jan 15, 2022
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Neptunvia » Sat May 21, 2022 10:58 am

If you asked me. I think they took one look at the things we post on the Internet, and ever scenes then, they've been Avoiding us.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eastern Elysia, Emotional Support Crocodile, Fartsniffage, Forsher, Grinning Dragon, Ifreann, Infected Mushroom, Kerwa, Mets Hayk, Washington Resistance Army, World Anarchic Union

Advertisement

Remove ads