NATION

PASSWORD

Unacceptable Corruption & Integrity Paradox

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
User avatar
Twelve Israelite Tribes
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Mar 03, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Unacceptable Corruption & Integrity Paradox

Postby Twelve Israelite Tribes » Wed May 18, 2022 11:37 am

Greetings. So there seems to be a massive problem that I have noticed recently that's popped up: somehow the dev's either forgot some lines of code or some IQ-points regarding the statistics for "Corruption" and "Integrity". These two metrics are in direct opposition to each other yet somehow I find nations like my own, where we have around 93% "Integrity" (which, by definition, reduces "Corruption") yet in the nation's textual description, it refers to the government as "corrupt". Pardon my French, but that's not f****** acceptable. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does not appreciate a nation being labeled as "Corrupt" whenever "Integrity" is upwards of 90% (and the actual metric of so-called "Corruption" is sitting at an incredibly low 18 to 20 figure or even lower). De facto, any nation with governmental "Integrity" over 90% does not have a corrupt government. Please fix this. Thank you.
Last edited by Twelve Israelite Tribes on Wed May 18, 2022 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1265
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Wed May 18, 2022 11:54 am

Twelve Israelite Tribes wrote:Greetings. So there seems to be a massive problem that I have noticed recently that's popped up: somehow the dev's either forgot some lines of code or some IQ-points regarding the statistics for "Corruption" and "Integrity". These two metrics are in direct opposition to each other yet somehow I find nations like my own, where we have around 93% "Integrity" (which, by definition, reduces "Corruption") yet in the nation's textual description, it refers to the government as "corrupt". Pardon my French, but that's not f****** acceptable. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does not appreciate a nation being labeled as "Corrupt" whenever "Integrity" is upwards of 90% (and the actual metric of so-called "Corruption" is sitting at an incredibly low 18 to 20 figure or even lower). De facto, any nation with governmental "Integrity" over 90% does not have a corrupt government. Please fix this. Thank you.


Why don't you relax and consider that if this tiny little thing makes you this upset, maybe you shouldn't be on NationStates? Or maybe that you're being condescending to the brilliant Issues Editors who have done an excellent job making these stats make sense? And who are you to tell them what's acceptable? They're volunteers; not your employees.

There's nothing inconsistent about your nations corruption and integrity. You're in the top 27% of nations in corruption, but the top 74% of nations in integrity.

You seem to not understand that numbers like "91.83 Percentage Of Bribes Refused" is not good relative to other nations. 74% of nations have much fewer bribes refused; i.e. your nation, when measured against others, does not have high integrity. Consider the reverse: 8.17% of bribes are accepted! That's too high. Furthermore, 18.35 kickbacks per hour is a unit, not a percentage. You have no way of knowing how low it is, except when comparing it with other nations. In this case, it's high.

I understand that you don't want your nation to be corrupt, but first, consider that this is a game, and second, consider that this a satirical game that's supposed to mock people a little bit, create exaggerated caricatures, and point out flawed reasoning. There are weird results to issues all the time, but typically if you reason about them for a little bit, they start to make sense. So just have fun with the choices you make and see how it changes your nation.
Last edited by Bormiar on Wed May 18, 2022 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Umbratellus
Envoy
 
Posts: 310
Founded: Aug 22, 2021
Conservative Democracy

Postby Umbratellus » Wed May 18, 2022 6:02 pm

Check your relative standing in the world; you're in the top 30% for corruption. You are corrupt by global standards. The integrity stat changes much slower than the corruption stat, so it's not that abnormal. While 90%+ of bribes might still be refused, it represents a significant and detectable problem within your society.

User avatar
Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1634
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Thu May 19, 2022 2:42 pm

The nation descriptions often don’t make sense and are frequently contradictory - sometimes they even contradict themselves. So don’t take it too seriously :P
TNP NPO
WA (Co-)Authorship: SC#390

10000 Islands Foreign Affairs wrote:~The population of 10000 Islands suffered a huge increase

Ankuran wrote:"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, everybody dies.
Nation reflects RL beliefs, especially bad ones. All stats are canon.

User avatar
Ankuran
Envoy
 
Posts: 243
Founded: Jul 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ankuran » Fri May 20, 2022 9:11 am

Comfed wrote:The nation descriptions often don’t make sense and are frequently contradictory - sometimes they even contradict themselves. So don’t take it too seriously :P


I especially like it when I see a nation's government described as a "well-organized morass."
████████████
▄▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄▄
██████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
~ La force par l'unité ~

User avatar
Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1634
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Fri May 20, 2022 9:25 am

Ankuran wrote:
Comfed wrote:The nation descriptions often don’t make sense and are frequently contradictory - sometimes they even contradict themselves. So don’t take it too seriously :P


I especially like it when I see a nation's government described as a "well-organized morass."

And I apparently have a corrupt, well-organized government!
TNP NPO
WA (Co-)Authorship: SC#390

10000 Islands Foreign Affairs wrote:~The population of 10000 Islands suffered a huge increase

Ankuran wrote:"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, everybody dies.
Nation reflects RL beliefs, especially bad ones. All stats are canon.

User avatar
Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20841
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Fri May 20, 2022 5:34 pm

There has been at least one nation where "elections are banned, and voting is compulsory".
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
Jar Wattinree
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1336
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sat May 21, 2022 9:18 am

Bears Armed wrote:There has been at least one nation where "elections are banned, and voting is compulsory".

But of course, how else is the ruling party to stay in office in perpetuity?

User avatar
Ankuran
Envoy
 
Posts: 243
Founded: Jul 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ankuran » Sat May 21, 2022 6:52 pm

Comfed wrote:
Ankuran wrote:
I especially like it when I see a nation's government described as a "well-organized morass."

And I apparently have a corrupt, well-organized government!


"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."
████████████
▄▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄▄
██████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
~ La force par l'unité ~

User avatar
Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1634
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Sat May 21, 2022 6:53 pm

Ankuran wrote:
Comfed wrote:And I apparently have a corrupt, well-organized government!


"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."

That's amazing xD
TNP NPO
WA (Co-)Authorship: SC#390

10000 Islands Foreign Affairs wrote:~The population of 10000 Islands suffered a huge increase

Ankuran wrote:"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, everybody dies.
Nation reflects RL beliefs, especially bad ones. All stats are canon.

User avatar
Jar Wattinree
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1336
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sat May 21, 2022 6:56 pm

Ankuran wrote:
Comfed wrote:And I apparently have a corrupt, well-organized government!


"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."

This is now officially canon for my nation.

User avatar
Twelve Israelite Tribes
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Mar 03, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Twelve Israelite Tribes » Sun May 22, 2022 1:00 am

Umbratellus wrote:Check your relative standing in the world; you're in the top 30% for corruption. You are corrupt by global standards. The integrity stat changes much slower than the corruption stat, so it's not that abnormal. While 90%+ of bribes might still be refused, it represents a significant and detectable problem within your society.


According to the "Trend" page, the "Corruption" category is, where "World Census officials visited a range of government departments and recorded how frequently bribes were required to complete simple administrative requests." and is measured in "Kickbacks Per Hour;" whereas "Integrity" is where, "World Census agents tempted government officials with financial and other inducements to bend the rules and recorded how often their proposals were declined," and is measured as a "Percentage Of Bribes Refused". That means that "Corruption" needs to be numerically measured as 100%-[Integrity %]. It's easy math.

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1265
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Sun May 22, 2022 9:41 am

Twelve Israelite Tribes wrote:
Umbratellus wrote:Check your relative standing in the world; you're in the top 30% for corruption. You are corrupt by global standards. The integrity stat changes much slower than the corruption stat, so it's not that abnormal. While 90%+ of bribes might still be refused, it represents a significant and detectable problem within your society.


According to the "Trend" page, the "Corruption" category is, where "World Census officials visited a range of government departments and recorded how frequently bribes were required to complete simple administrative requests." and is measured in "Kickbacks Per Hour;" whereas "Integrity" is where, "World Census agents tempted government officials with financial and other inducements to bend the rules and recorded how often their proposals were declined," and is measured as a "Percentage Of Bribes Refused". That means that "Corruption" needs to be numerically measured as 100%-[Integrity %]. It's easy math.

No. Wrong.

They are different units. The only scenario when that would be true is if corruption were measured in "percentage of bribes accepted". But it's not that. Instead, it's the number of bribes made per hour. There's a difference.


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Technical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aria Holons, Sweitchland, The Otter Archipelago

Advertisement

Remove ads