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Your go-to place for all the above-board and under-the-table trade dealings of the Global Trade Fair!
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Archinstinct
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Review

Postby Archinstinct » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:08 am

The event this year has an interesting premise. When you decide to join, your nation is given a small stash of goods. You can send & trade these items with other players, destroy them, or permanently stash them in your region. There's a leaderboard keeping track of regional level stashes. You're given the ability to "inspect" a nation for a specific item, which will see you rewarded if you find them.

It seems like the staff kept two things in mind with the event this year; the principle of K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple, stupid) and this game's theme of Jennifer government; a tale of unchecked capitalism. It's these things the event nails; it's simple in function, and it follows the book's theme this website was originally created on. There's humorous flavor text to the description of each item you're hunting down, which can give you a chuckle if you read it. The crates of kittens is a cute item.

There are problems with the event I noticed. Right at the beginning I was kind of wondering what I was supposed to do; there's no real clear objective to work toward, no census on what's more/less valuable. I had to kind of take a few minutes to start figuring out what to work toward; which was just aimlessly hoarding everything I could..
Oh, a BIG gripe I have with the event is the fucking timer. It. doesn't. work! I don't know when I can launch inspections or stash something, I kept getting error messages. Frustrating!
Another problem I figured out was that the inspection function seems neutered; because we can create new nations and have them instantly join, with each nation being a rather large supply of items. It seems faster to just spawn new nations than to inspect others for stockpiling goods. The fact I could leave and rejoin with the ability to perform one action immediately means I can just cheese the regional leaderboard until I have enough things to be ranked.
I stopped playing after about 40 minutes and in my one region where I have a few puppets I still have the same rank of 39 for gas centrifuges I had at the beginning of the event.

For improvements, I think a national leaderboard was needed alongside regional leaderboards. It would have been way more motivational to me as a single user to know where I stand against everybody else. The regional stashes shouldn't be a safe for everybody's collective loot; there needed to be an ability to raid regional stashes for supplies, because otherwise the larger regions have an immediate advantage with sheer quantity in numbers. The timer for actions needs to be patched so you can see what the hell you're doing. A marketplace would have been a good addition; letting people buy and sell on a market akin to what we have for the trading card game would suffice; I don't know why this wasn't added given the feature has existed for several years now. More items; more graphics/images.
A function to briefly block inspections during cool-downs would also have been nice, as everybody who does one action on the activity board is basically a target, which discourages playing since you're basically invisible to the wider world after 5 minutes. You want people to do more clicks per nation; not less. Some customization options would have been awesome. An ability for regions or even individual nations to create their own custom items for trading would be easily doable since it's just text.

Overall, this isn't a bad idea. It needs patches and a few updates but I can easily see this becoming a permanent yearly event, or even to integrate this in with the trading cards to become a much larger marketplace for international trade.

Final score: 5/10
Last edited by Archinstinct on Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Penguin Dictators
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Postby Penguin Dictators » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:30 am

It's not a bad idea, but it definitely has problems.

For one, people stealing your stuff to horde it, and then leaving the fair so that you can't take back from them. I don't mind the idea of personal stashing, but I don't like the idea of people being able to continually leave the fair and have an indefinite hold on their stuff, while sneakingly popping back in to take more and then immediately leaving again.

If you're going to have it to where people can personally stash even though it doesn't really add to the score at all since it's not region stashed, then there shouldn't be an option to be able to leave the fair continually. Or if you do, you lose your stuff and have to start over, or it needs and obviously longer cooldown timer before you're allowed to re-join.

Otherwise, it should be an open-for-all fair game of fair things approach: If you enter the fair, you can't leave until the fair is over, or even if you do leave folks can still have a chance to take your items rather than it be 100% impossible.

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The United Penguin Commonwealth
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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:05 am

I think another big problem is that within a few hours, there are some people who have ridiculous amounts of inspector uniforms and kittens, and they’re pretty much impossible to stop. The biggest issue is probably alts, though.

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Penguin Dictators
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Postby Penguin Dictators » Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:21 am

Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.

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Republic Of Ludwigsburg
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Postby Republic Of Ludwigsburg » Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:26 am

The bigger your region, the easier it becomes to go on the leaderboard. If you're a small region, you've got no chance.
Other than that, people tend to inspect from random people and tend to create a scrabecamoreillion amount of alts to boost their region.
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Eleutherya
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Postby Eleutherya » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:06 am

This Mini-Game is completely frustrating, very very far from being funny. I would redesign it completely, making it something similar to trading cards plus a lot of enhancements, please.
Not playing anymore after 3 minutes.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:10 am

Penguin Dictators wrote:Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.


Puppets help, but they don't farm themselves. Still takes effort and elbow grease, and given there's no pop minimum on participation, anyone could do the same. Now, you can debate as to whether that meta is desirable or not, but it's not particularly exclusive - what, for example, S.U.S. is doing is as much about having ~50 motivated participants putting tons of hours in, as it is about the puppets we're utilizing in our work.
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The color or what?..

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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:17 am

The only change I'd suggest to this is that if you have any items at all, you cannot leave the fair. Everything else about it seems pretty good, although I do not think that this should be a recurring thing like Zombies or N-Day.
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The United Penguin Commonwealth
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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:47 am

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Penguin Dictators wrote:Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.


Puppets help, but they don't farm themselves. Still takes effort and elbow grease, and given there's no pop minimum on participation, anyone could do the same. Now, you can debate as to whether that meta is desirable or not, but it's not particularly exclusive - what, for example, S.U.S. is doing is as much about having ~50 motivated participants putting tons of hours in, as it is about the puppets we're utilizing in our work.


yes, but that meta clearly isn’t desirable. most people don’t care enough to make 500 alts or a dozen bots for a minigame on an obscure website. rather, they want to just play a fun game as a time-killer. and those people are utterly crowded out and curb-stomped by the people who have 500 card-farming alts and ten hours to spare. it makes the game a competition of who can make the most alts rather than a strategic puzzle.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:20 am

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Puppets help, but they don't farm themselves. Still takes effort and elbow grease, and given there's no pop minimum on participation, anyone could do the same. Now, you can debate as to whether that meta is desirable or not, but it's not particularly exclusive - what, for example, S.U.S. is doing is as much about having ~50 motivated participants putting tons of hours in, as it is about the puppets we're utilizing in our work.


yes, but that meta clearly isn’t desirable. most people don’t care enough to make 500 alts or a dozen bots for a minigame on an obscure website. rather, they want to just play a fun game as a time-killer. and those people are utterly crowded out and curb-stomped by the people who have 500 card-farming alts and ten hours to spare. it makes the game a competition of who can make the most alts rather than a strategic puzzle.


And games without puppets favor the GCR's and a few big ucr's curbstomping everyone else because they have 1000 WA members to TG.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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How Do I Telegram API?

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Minoa
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Postby Minoa » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:55 pm

Apparently, you start with 15 stashes of two types of goods, but I don't think I have played long enough to know if I get more items over time. If not, then that is a deal-breaker for small regions. Side note, it looks like the interval between actions is about 18-20 seconds, and the delay between leaving and rejoining is about two minutes.
Last edited by Minoa on Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:15 pm

Minoa wrote:Apparently, you start with 15 stashes of two types of goods, but I don't think I have played long enough to know if I get more items over time. If not, then that is a deal-breaker for small regions. Side note, it looks like the interval between actions is about 18-20 seconds, and the delay between leaving and rejoining is about two minutes.


you can start with less.
you get 2 goods. and your numbers are random.


and honestly. its not even fair.
players with many items boosting or puppet abuser can scrap you as soon as you start.
I got like 5 patriotic flag stolen from me, by a puppet user in seconds.

then the other time, some guy steal my kitten and I'm unable to even even steal back, because he leave the trade.
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Socialist Ancomistan
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Postby Socialist Ancomistan » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:42 pm

.
Last edited by Socialist Ancomistan on Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'd say this nation is about 85-90% representative to my beliefs

About the only difference between my nation and beliefs is that free markets are effective in a select few situations, and the compulsory organ harvesting is kind of screwed up

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually pay more attention to in game stats than to roleplay

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Socialist Ancomistan
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Postby Socialist Ancomistan » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:44 pm

Penguin Dictators wrote:Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.


Why can't we just get rid of alts altogether, even though this is sort of unrelated to the Trade game. I've seen nations like "Womble," for example, with thousands of bot accounts, that make it look like far more players are playing NationStates than there really are. Is there a reason for this or no?
Last edited by Socialist Ancomistan on Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd say this nation is about 85-90% representative to my beliefs

About the only difference between my nation and beliefs is that free markets are effective in a select few situations, and the compulsory organ harvesting is kind of screwed up

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually pay more attention to in game stats than to roleplay

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:11 pm

Socialist Ancomistan wrote:
Penguin Dictators wrote:Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.


Why can't we just get rid of alts altogether, even though this is sort of unrelated to the Trade game. I've seen nations like "Womble," for example, with thousands of bot accounts, that make it look like far more players are playing NationStates than there really are. Is there a reason for this or no?

That particular collection is for the purpose of having the largest region.

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Penguin Dictators
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Penguin Dictators » Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:20 pm

Socialist Ancomistan wrote:
Penguin Dictators wrote:Alts being a problem is a tale as old as time, though. In every event I can think of that NS has, alts end up being a tipping point, sometimes the tipping point for specific factions to win.


Why can't we just get rid of alts altogether, even though this is sort of unrelated to the Trade game. I've seen nations like "Womble," for example, with thousands of bot accounts, that make it look like far more players are playing NationStates than there really are. Is there a reason for this or no?


What Lord Dominator said, but also puppets are just necessary for R/D. I'd generally agree with the idea of shutting alts out of the special events like this, but I'll never be on board with getting rid of them completely since it's something that would severely cripple R/D gameplay...and as much as I myself don't take part in it, enough other people do to where it'd just cause way too many people to leave the site.
Last edited by Penguin Dictators on Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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New Waldensia
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Postby New Waldensia » Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:09 pm

Minoa wrote:Side note, it looks like the interval between actions is about 18-20 seconds

I have it down to as low as 5 seconds for some actions because of items I have on hand.
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Archinstinct
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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:57 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
yes, but that meta clearly isn’t desirable. most people don’t care enough to make 500 alts or a dozen bots for a minigame on an obscure website. rather, they want to just play a fun game as a time-killer. and those people are utterly crowded out and curb-stomped by the people who have 500 card-farming alts and ten hours to spare. it makes the game a competition of who can make the most alts rather than a strategic puzzle.


And games without puppets favor the GCR's and a few big ucr's curbstomping everyone else because they have 1000 WA members to TG.


You both have valid criticisms and the staff should take note of these posts if they're reading this thread for current & future events.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:17 pm

Archinstinct wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
And games without puppets favor the GCR's and a few big ucr's curbstomping everyone else because they have 1000 WA members to TG.


You both have valid criticisms and the staff should take note of these posts if they're reading this thread for current & future events.


...That's why the types of events vary, i.e, it was entirely irrelevant to Trivia, and SecGen was WA only.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Archinstinct
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Postby Archinstinct » Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:00 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:
You both have valid criticisms and the staff should take note of these posts if they're reading this thread for current & future events.


...That's why the types of events vary, i.e, it was entirely irrelevant to Trivia, and SecGen was WA only.


I can't disagree with that. It feels like it's not the main reason though; it feels to me like it's more to the whims of the devs and this event was made half-baked. I stress the glitch with the timer and the lack of a marketplace. Both are features we already have, but the timer is broken for some reason and a marketplace wasn't incorporated? It shouldn't have taken much effort to include something already made. Something as simple as a timer we've had for years shouldn't be broken.
Last edited by Archinstinct on Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Merni
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Postby Merni » Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:08 pm

This minigame was probably fun enough as yet another switch-between-hundreds-of-puppets-to-win game. (And if you don't want to win, you may have a bit of fun just playing around with a single nation.) I do hope that eventually we can get a minigame that involves actually doing something as your nation (not as a player, like with the sec-gen or trivia games) but either doesn't allow mass puppet farms or disadvantages them with game mechanics.

That aside, I do feel that having some sort of barter trading would make this one more fun. Right now the only ways to get anything are by using tons of puppets or stealing, which isn't much of a trade fair.
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A News Outlet
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Postby A News Outlet » Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:12 pm

Merni wrote:This minigame was probably fun enough as yet another switch-between-hundreds-of-puppets-to-win game. (And if you don't want to win, you may have a bit of fun just playing around with a single nation.) I do hope that eventually we can get a minigame that involves actually doing something as your nation (not as a player, like with the sec-gen or trivia games) but either doesn't allow mass puppet farms or disadvantages them with game mechanics.

That aside, I do feel that having some sort of barter trading would make this one more fun. Right now the only ways to get anything are by using tons of puppets or stealing, which isn't much of a trade fair.


I actually do agree on this point, I made 2 other alts just for this minigame

I already have enough alts, this being one of them and I don't need more to manage.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:55 pm

Archinstinct wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
...That's why the types of events vary, i.e, it was entirely irrelevant to Trivia, and SecGen was WA only.


I can't disagree with that. It feels like it's not the main reason though; it feels to me like it's more to the whims of the devs and this event was made half-baked. I stress the glitch with the timer and the lack of a marketplace. Both are features we already have, but the timer is broken for some reason and a marketplace wasn't incorporated? It shouldn't have taken much effort to include something already made. Something as simple as a timer we've had for years shouldn't be broken.


...what do you think is broken?

Merni wrote:This minigame was probably fun enough as yet another switch-between-hundreds-of-puppets-to-win game. (And if you don't want to win, you may have a bit of fun just playing around with a single nation.) I do hope that eventually we can get a minigame that involves actually doing something as your nation (not as a player, like with the sec-gen or trivia games) but either doesn't allow mass puppet farms or disadvantages them with game mechanics.

That aside, I do feel that having some sort of barter trading would make this one more fun. Right now the only ways to get anything are by using tons of puppets or stealing, which isn't much of a trade fair.


My take is a "phase 2: regional production" would have been hype - some way to use what's in your stash to make stuff as a region, and use/trade the "product" generated from the raw materials, or trade your stash.

I.e. "you have loads of tractor parts, we need those to farm something, we'll give you coffee beans to make your production faster in return."
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TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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The H Corporation
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Anarchy

Postby The H Corporation » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:03 pm

For me it was boring. Clicking a button to stash stuff and then clicking another button for stealing stuff plus picking a nation made things repetitive for me, plus the other issues everyone has been pointing out. To be fair I know why this was loved by some, it could do some improvements and it would probably be okay. But it didn't cut it for me, I think it was tedious and repetitive to some extent.

Overall I give this a 3/10
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Sylestone
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Posts: 1099
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sylestone » Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:39 am

There's a good premise to the game, and I feel as though it's a bit different to what we've had before, which is what we want as players. I really liked how the majority (if not all) of the collectable goods had purposes, and how there was a relatively wide variety of goods people could stash. However, with the way the game works at the moment, it's effectively a "Steal Fair", and has pretty much nothing to do with "trading" in it.

One of the first improvements I think that could be implemented is a marketplace for actual trading, where people could set aside specific goods and ask for other specific goods in return. I still believe that the "inspecting" function should remain, but this should remove most of the stealing element from the game. You could even have a "cost" of sorts if someone catches you, but that could be rather easily exploited and it's probably something not worth delving into, in my opinion.

Another thing that could be implemented is a cost for shipping. One thing I did (but other people may not have, idk) is use a couple of puppets to send goods to my main, using their rather high quantity of starting goods to my advantage. Maybe, I dunno, you have to get a shipping container or something to ship things, or maybe make everyone start with at least 3 shipping containers or something and each time something is shipped one is used up? I'm not sure. I've probably waaaaay overthought this and the effect of this is actually negligible.

Maybe have national rankings as well as regional ones, to see who has stashed what? And tied into this, it would be interesting to implement regional production, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. Maybe if you have lots of tractor parts you can grow coffee beans, or lots of gas canisters means more uranium parts. Perhaps, new goods could be created, too. Maybe drills --> gold bullion, some other metal --> electronics, etc.?

Finally, it may be worth thinking about having nations still "in the game" spawn a new crate of something every twenty minutes or so to have an incentive for not opting out (so high risk = high reward). Probably a terrible idea as it's not exactly realistic to have something suddenly "spawn" at a trade fair.

Most of this were things that I thought of while playing and probably don't make much sense at all. Please shoot any of these ideas down if I've missed something obvious (or not obvious) that would render them completely pointless. Overall, I'd give the game a 6.5/10 as it was still fun, but there is lots of room for improvement.
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