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[DRAFT: PROTECTING BORDERS]

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PineneedleProject
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[DRAFT: PROTECTING BORDERS]

Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:11 am

Definitions:



1. A caravan shall be defined for the purposes of this resolution as a group of two or more alien persons attempting to unlawfully enter the territory of a sovereign member nation in an organized manner and with the clear intent of breaching the territorial integrity of the member nation concerned. The definition of unlawful caravan includes all possessions and vehicles held by the alien persons.



Subsection 2 of definition 1:



Clear intent shall be defined as knowingly and willingly (thereby meaning a person’s own free will) participating in an unlawful activity. In order for clear intent to be shown, the accused must’ve had had knowledge that they were crossing an international border of a member state, that the accused did not have authorization to enter the member state they were attempting to enter, and that the accused did so of their own free will and not under duress or coercion. These definitions shall apply to both groups of persons traveling unlawfully together (known as a caravan) or individual persons.



2. Tampering shall include, but is not limited to;

Encouraging, directly or indirectly, an unlawful caravan to attempt to or to unlawfully enter the territory of another sovereign member nation,

Failing to take adequate steps to prevent the movement of an unlawful caravan or alien persons, which puts the borders of another sovereign member nation at risk,

Providing aid and comfort to alien persons trying to unlawfully enter the territory of another member nation,

3. Borders shall be defined as:

Land where a member state has lawful legal, military, and civic control.

Military control encompasses checkpoints, military bases, ect. Military control only includes military control that is duly permitted under international law.

legal control is where a member state's police force and court system is able to adequately operate, and is duly permitted to do so under international law.

Civic control is where the political apparatus of a member state is operationally effective and where a member state is duly permitted to operate under international law.



The World Assembly affirms:



1. that the World Assembly has the fundamental right to dictate matters of borders of, and only of member states, as they are of an international concern, and borders of member states must be maintained as per the requirements listed in this resolution

2. that borders are fundamental to the security of a free member state,



THE WORLD ASSEMBLY SO ORDERS:



that all member states must not have their borders tampered with by fellow member states.



Member states must take minimal steps to secure their borders with other member states, such as:



1. all member states must work with member states they border to ensure that caravans are not allowed to enter their nation on route to another. This shall be overseen by the World Assembly border integrity commission. The commission will ensure that all member states are fulfilling their requirements as prescribed by this resolution.



2. that member states must take all reasonable steps to protect their borders. Reasonable steps shall include, but are not limited to:



- Increasing law-enforcement capacity around border crossings and entry points

- Sending military personal



3. other member nations must not take actions that harm the border security of a fellow member nation, which shall include but is not limited to:



- allowing caravans to unlawfully cross their borders with the clear intention of entering another nation

- failing to maintain one’s own border
Last edited by PineneedleProject on Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:35 pm, edited 33 times in total.

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Fortress World of Cadia
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Postby Fortress World of Cadia » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:15 am

"The Fortress World of Cadia agrees, why let other nations interfere with our borders?"
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:13 am

PineneedleProject wrote:all nations must work with the nations they border to ensure that caravans are not allowed to enter their nation on route to another

Won't people just get RVs instead? :P
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:25 am

C Marcius Blythe. Two thoughts.

First, what does it mean to tamper with a border? And what is a border in the first place? Is a border something one draws on a map without regard to actualities on the ground? Or does it consist only of those actualities on the ground? If I were to say, go beyond the old limes to Hibernia Tertia, have I crossed a border? What, then, if the tribal chiefs of yore say those limes are illegitimate and imposed only by the force of Roman arms?

Second, you need to define a caravan. If it includes military supply convoys, this is a foolish proposal. If it includes trade, it too is foolish. If it is some kind of reference to non-resident aliens, then say so.

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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:59 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:C Marcius Blythe. Two thoughts.

First, what does it mean to tamper with a border? And what is a border in the first place? Is a border something one draws on a map without regard to actualities on the ground? Or does it consist only of those actualities on the ground? If I were to say, go beyond the old limes to Hibernia Tertia, have I crossed a border? What, then, if the tribal chiefs of yore say those limes are illegitimate and imposed only by the force of Roman arms?

Second, you need to define a caravan. If it includes military supply convoys, this is a foolish proposal. If it includes trade, it too is foolish. If it is some kind of reference to non-resident aliens, then say so.


I made amendments to my resolution in light of these helpful comments. My thoughts on borders are that for the purposes of this resolution they should simply be defined as land where nations have affective control.

I also better defined a caravan

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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:59 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
PineneedleProject wrote:all nations must work with the nations they border to ensure that caravans are not allowed to enter their nation on route to another

Won't people just get RVs instead? :P


I included possessions (which would include vehicles) in the resolution as well to cover this situation

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StuffYou
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Postby StuffYou » Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:25 pm

Whilst this draft has the right idea I would recommend outlining the requirements to consider a caravan having (I quote);"clear intent to breach the territorial integrity of the nation concerned", in order to avoid confusion and increased tension.

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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:53 pm

StuffYou wrote:Whilst this draft has the right idea I would recommend outlining the requirements to consider a caravan having (I quote);"clear intent to breach the territorial integrity of the nation concerned", in order to avoid confusion and increased tension.


Thanks, Appreciated the advice and made edits accordingly. I defined the elements of clear intent, basically you have to know you are crossing an international border and that you were doing so on your own free will. You also have had to have known that you had no authorization to reside, this is easily proven by simply lack of visa or permission to remain or enter the country. You are automatically not permitted to enter unless you have authorization otherwise. These definitions apply to individuals as well as a caravan as a caravan is simply a group of individuals.

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:36 pm

Not well-written at all. Since you are new to the WA, read this guide to help you regarding resolutions: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348
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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:Not well-written at all. Since you are new to the WA, read this guide to help you regarding resolutions: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348


OK I’ve added some administrative stuff at the top after reading the link you posted as well as making some of the language mandatory. Could you be more specific in regards to other concerns you have? Thanks in advance for all the feedback. I really appreciate it and value the collaboration.
Last edited by PineneedleProject on Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:54 pm

PineneedleProject wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Not well-written at all. Since you are new to the WA, read this guide to help you regarding resolutions: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348


OK I’ve added some administrative stuff at the top after reading the link you posted. Could you be more specific in regards to other concerns you have? Thanks in advance for all the feedback. I really appreciate it and value the collaboration.

It's not structured well and overall is very lacking in quality and provisions.
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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:58 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
PineneedleProject wrote:
OK I’ve added some administrative stuff at the top after reading the link you posted. Could you be more specific in regards to other concerns you have? Thanks in advance for all the feedback. I really appreciate it and value the collaboration.

It's not structured well and overall is very lacking in quality and provisions.


Thank you, I appreciate it.

Could you give me some suggestions on the structure?

I will work on adding more provisions, and expanding the existing ones.

What do you mean by lacking in quality?

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PineneedleProject
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Major changes have been made - feedback requested

Postby PineneedleProject » Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:06 pm

Major updates have been made to the resolution. Please provide feedback!
Last edited by PineneedleProject on Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Xanthorrhoea
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Postby Xanthorrhoea » Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:33 am

Why should my nation care about other nation's borders? It is of utterly no consequence to us if a group of people who lawfully entered our country want to move on to another. We should not be obliged to act as other nation's border forces. If one our neighbours is concerned about people crossing their borders, then they can spend their own money to protect them.

This is an entirely unecessary waste of the WA's and Xanthorrhoea's resources. By this proposal, we would be breaking international law by not encasing our country in an impenetrable bubble. It claims to support the notion that borders are a purely internal matter, but then immediately makes it nations liable for 'failing to maintain one's own borders.' The utter hypocracy on display here is appalling.

OOC: What exactly is the purpose of this proposal? It smells a lot of American domestic politics, which I have utterly no interest in engaging with.

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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:15 am

Xanthorrhoea wrote:Why should my nation care about other nation's borders? It is of utterly no consequence to us if a group of people who lawfully entered our country want to move on to another. We should not be obliged to act as other nation's border forces. If one our neighbours is concerned about people crossing their borders, then they can spend their own money to protect them.

This is an entirely unecessary waste of the WA's and Xanthorrhoea's resources. By this proposal, we would be breaking international law by not encasing our country in an impenetrable bubble. It claims to support the notion that borders are a purely internal matter, but then immediately makes it nations liable for 'failing to maintain one's own borders.' The utter hypocracy on display here is appalling.

OOC: What exactly is the purpose of this proposal? It smells a lot of American domestic politics, which I have utterly no interest in engaging with.


I agree that there were a lot of incompatibilities, so I fixed those and made it very clear that because borders are so fundamental to the territorial integrity of a nation and are of a international nature, the world assembly has an important role in ensuring that borders are maintained to a minimum standard.

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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:52 pm

Fortress World of Cadia wrote:"The Fortress World of Cadia agrees, why let other nations interfere with our borders?"


Any thoughts regarding the updated resolution?

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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:58 pm

Not very good. The idea is nice, but the execution is not.
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PineneedleProject
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Postby PineneedleProject » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:36 pm

Fachumonn wrote:Not very good. The idea is nice, but the execution is not.


Could you be more specific regarding what improvements you suggest?
As you can see from the thread I am more than open to editing it based off Feedback.
Last edited by PineneedleProject on Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:46 pm

PineneedleProject wrote:
Fachumonn wrote:Not very good. The idea is nice, but the execution is not.


Could you be more specific regarding what improvements you suggest?
As you can see from the thread I am more than open to editing it based off Feedback.

Well, I mean basically what others have said. My feedback would just be a combination of what others have said.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:56 pm

PineneedleProject wrote:
Fachumonn wrote:Not very good. The idea is nice, but the execution is not.


Could you be more specific regarding what improvements you suggest?
As you can see from the thread I am more than open to editing it based off Feedback.

What other feedback do you need? If it's not well-written and poorly executed, then it's that.
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Xanthorrhoea
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Postby Xanthorrhoea » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:24 am

To offer more detailed feedback than just ‘git gud’:

I’m generally opposed to the basic premise that my nation bears any responsibility for protecting another nation’s borders. I should not have to employ more security forces at my own expense to manage someone else’s immigration. Regardless of how well written this draft becomes, I will oppose it for this fact alone.

However, in the interest of helping you improve the writing, here’s some more advice.

Firstly, a basic proofread for grammar/spelling would be a good idea. There are a few things like there/their substitutions and missing words that need cleaning up. There’s also a lot of needless repetition that needs removal (e.g. clause 3 seems to be a complete duplication of clauses 1 and 2). The overall structure of the proposal could also use some simplification. The most common (and easiest to copy) structure used in the GA is a short set of paragraphs explaining the need for the proposal (identify what the problem is, why it’s an international issue, and why it needs fixing by the GA), followed by a (usually numbered) list of clauses that are legally binding. Have a look at past resolutions and try and replicate their structure.

Secondly, your definitions need some work. Currently they’re far too broad for what (I presume) you intend. You definition of “caravan” is simultaneously overly broad and wholely unnecessary. Why bother distinguishing between two people trying to cross a border and one? At the point where stopping groups of 2 people becomes an international issue you may as well just include everyone trying to cross. I have a sneaking suspicion that the majority of people crossing borders illegally are doing it with family members/friends/associates, and therefore fall under this definition, meaning the definition is basically useless.

Your definition of tampering is far too broad. Including ‘indirectly encouraging’, failing to prevent movement and aid provision in the definition is ridiculous. The day the WA bans me from providing humanitarian aid to those within my own borders (or really anywhere for that matter) is the day I resign (or at least campaign in the most irritating and persistent way possible for the repeal of the offending resolution).

Your definition of borders is also very problematic. I know of few locations anywhere under simultaneous military, legal and civic control. According to this proposal, my own capital city lies outside of my borders unless I declare martial law or turn it into a giant military base. The definitions of legal and civic control are equally bad. One natural disaster disrupting or slowing down police, legal or political operations would mean that entire was suddenly outside my borders.

Third, the WA does not have the right to dictate my country’s borders, and if it tries it can sod off. It can assist in arbitrating disputes over borders, and restrict me from invading my neighbours for made up excuses, but that’s about the limit. I don’t believe it should have the right to tell me how to protect my borders. Would you be ok if there was a WA resolution forcing everyone to unconditionally open their borders to everyone else? Doing the opposite is a similar level of overreach. I am usually very sceptical of national sovereignty arguments, but this is a step to far even for me.

Fourth, as I’ve said earlier, making one nation legally responsible for enforcing another’s border policies is terrible policy. I can maybe see some argument for providing economic support for impoverished nations unable to afford their own defence, but even that seems like overreach to require.

Hopefully these tips help. Welcome to the WA! I disagree completely with this proposal and will never support it. But it’s good to see new faces and voices, even if they say things I hate.

I’m also not a fan of using politically charged terms such as ‘alien’ and ‘caravan.’ It smells a lot of pushing a particular agenda and makes you look extremely xenophobic.

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PineneedleProject
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possible contraction with Freedom Of Travel A resolution?

Postby PineneedleProject » Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:12 am

Would my draft resolution possibly conflict with, if passed, GAR Freedom of Travel https://www.nationstates.net/page=ga? Freedom of Travel seems to only apply to domestic travel, but I'm not sure?

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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:42 pm

Doesn't matter because there is no chance this is passing. But I would doubt it would conflict.
Last edited by Fachumonn on Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PineneedleProject
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Resolution submitted!

Postby PineneedleProject » Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:15 pm

This resolution has been submitted to the world assembly. Thank you guys so much for all the feedback and making this possible! Please support the resolution, here is the link: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1647835986

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:42 pm

PineneedleProject wrote:This resolution has been submitted to the world assembly. Thank you guys so much for all the feedback and making this possible! Please support the resolution, here is the link: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1647835986

Not well-written at all. I don't think you've even taken any of the advice given.
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