I suffer because of NationStates.

[Queen Yuno]

I suffer because of NationStates.

It makes me wish that NationStates was not set up this way, where everyone has their own forums where they can post heinous lies on (and harvest IP addresses and emails, but that's another debate.)

Apparently in this game, the slander/libel is allowed "as long as it's not on-site", but that is just as bad as being on-site, because it's just as bad those same forums are directly linked on the NS World Factbook Entry, and NationStates permits this.

On their very own GCRs.

I have to suffer under this for YEARS.

People are always messaging me every few months, with the link, to ask me what that's about; they found it when they took one look at the forum url linked in The East Pacific or The South Pacific's or Europeia's world factbook entries, and within the url is inappropriate material about me. They're all lies. I always have to suffer because of this!

I shouldn't have to explain why they're biased OOC twisted lies about non-events that never happened, and relive the past constantly, every single time a new user joins a GCR's directly-linked USER-CREATED forums.

I shouldn't have to suffer like this all the time! No matter how many years or how many times I retire, those public lie webpages keep haunting me.

They're the biggest sized game created regions, feeders, why do RANDOM PEOPLE I'VE NEVER MET and old friends always have to SEE that false dirty laundry about a single player (me) all the time?

How is that okay?!!

I am famous in this game, I am a top issue answerer, there is no way for me to avoid the public eye despite how many times I "retire." So I have to suffer whenever a noob who doesn't know anything, doesn't know any context, only reads one side of the story slandering me, randomly from a big region's WFE.


NationStates Staff, please don't turn a blind eye.

I constantly suffer because of NationStates.

How can this even be allowed on NationStates?

I hate that the lies are still up directly linked on WFEs, and I hate that I have to suffer due to my political rivals from the past invented fake OOC lies to knock me down from my IC political positions; and that they just happened to be buddy-buddy with the CREATOR OF THOSE cheap tapatalk or expensive $180 xenforo forums which require 0% coding skills- any old man can create these forums, and every NEW NS PLAYER WHO JOINS, sees the slander and suddenly starts treating me like garbage.

Forums are basically webpages. If linking a webpage with direct slander on a person is not allowed, then a WFE that links to a forum that directly slanders me, should not be allowed either!

Off-site admins are NOT ALL TRUSTWORTHY.

In the past, whenever I had submitted reports to "reputable" off-site admins (ns players), those same admins would leak my private reports to outside parties, or even the directly reported players, and violate my privacy, which has made me extremely stressed out. And led to more harassment on me. They would stir the pot.

They would appear to extend me an olive branch by giving me a chance to submit evidence. I would submit evidence that it was a set-up. They would then post new forum statements, inventing more OOC slander even more in order to double down that they "chose the right side." This shouldn't even be allowed!

I think that this is a sort of sadism. It should not be allowed on this website!

Please ban these heinous forum URLs from the WFEs.

Please.

UPDATE; My proposed solution:

NationStates moderators do not have to manually check each user-created forum url for harassment.

All they would need is the victim to file a GHR report.

I want to be able to GHR https://www.nationstates.net/page=help a link to a region's World Factbook Entry (on-site).

How I envision it is this:

I want to be able to submit a GHR, with a link to the region's world factbook page, and a screenshot the world factbook page.

The factbook page contains the forum link, example xyz.com

Inside the GHR report, I will include an additional link, xyz.com/EveryoneGoHarassQueenYuno (and screenshot)

Which can also EASILY be found by anybody who checks the admin sections of the forums. (Those rule-breaking statements aren't hidden in a corner hard to find. They are too easy to find. For years. That's why I want it to stop.)

Then, the NationStates moderators would manually CLEAR the WFE, or remove the URL from the WFE, and redtext the WFE as having broken the rules. They've done this with Nazi WFE regions before.

NS mods only need to act on user-submitted GHRs.

Thanks.

[DEAD MEMES REVIVED]

That's true

[Untecna]

There is a reason why these are third-party forums. NS moderators and admins can not control what content is and isn't on those forums, nor can they vouch for anyone's actions offsite, regardless of the situation, and nor can they control who uses these forums. None of these webpages are endorsed or moderated by NS staff or even by the creator of the site. If these forums were filled with content that is NSFW (basically these forums suddenly becoming adult sites), it would be likely that the mods would take actions.

I would recommend sorting this out with the regions instead, as they can control the forum activity.

[Queen Yuno]

I would recommend sorting this out with the regions instead, as they can control the forum activity.

I did this. I begged them to take down their posts. They insisted on keeping it up for many years.

I tried to convince them that it was all libel and harassment, I submitted my private evidence to them. They leaked my private reports to laugh at me amongst each other and my enemies.

The only solution is for NationStates to ban these links entirely.

[Vetelo]

This reminds me a lot of how Roblox has been attacked lately for not being a "child-friendly" site, because a lot of the external things linked on Roblox are toxic and filled with pedophiles. Kinda like when there were certain NS users active on the site while they were banned unanimously from pretty much every offsite platform, when nobody wanted them here. It's such a dumb thing to just refer every time to the rules anytime something happens "offsite". Like: "it was on discord, don't talk about it here" It pretty much frees the mods of this site of any responsibility in the most irresponsible way.

Honestly screw this site. It made me flunk highschool, grow gray hair, and contributed to my personality in the worst way.

[Sedgistan]

NationStates is not responsible for what happens on sites other than nationstates.net, in the same way that Hasbro is not expected to adjudicate family disputes arising from games of Monopoly. Offsite forums have been a valuable resource for communities for close to two decades. We're not banning links to them simply because some bad stuff can be found in parts of a few of them. Similarly, we don't ban Wikipedia links just because Wikipedia also hosts pages with content that violates site rules (e.g. images that would fall foul of the Obscene rule).

If someone is linking on NationStates to a webpage that contains Harassing material on that page, report it and we'll deal with the link.

[Wymondham]

Please ban these heinous forum URLs from the WFEs.

Without even attempting to address the controversial question of who did what where and to whom, I personally feel that banning the forums of certain regions based on the potential for untruths to have been said about a player sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. The moderation team have long made clear that they do not wish to be arbiters of truth (citation) , only arbiters of the site rules, and to place such a burden on them would, to me, be grossly unfair as well as creating a fair bit of potential for abuse. Furthermore, the matter of slander/libel is a legal question that is naturally up to the courts to determine not the administrators, however responsible, of a website. Finally, I would question how the moderators are meant to determine which websites are good and which websites are bad under such a rule, the caseload created would be immense and many judgements somewhat subjective?

[Vetelo]

Please ban these heinous forum URLs from the WFEs.

Without even attempting to address the controversial question of who did what where and to whom, I personally feel that banning the forums of certain regions based on the potential for untruths to have been said about a player sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. The moderation team have long made clear that they do not wish to be arbiters of truth (citation) , only arbiters of the site rules, and to place such a burden on them would, to me, be grossly unfair as well as creating a fair bit of potential for abuse. Furthermore, the matter of slander/libel is a legal question that is naturally up to the courts to determine not the administrators, however responsible, of a website. Finally, I would question how the moderators are meant to determine which websites are good and which websites are bad under such a rule, the caseload created would be immense and many judgements somewhat subjective?

When do you think the "courts" are going to address anything happening on an internet platform, especially some backwater like NationStates?

[Queen Yuno]

NationStates is not responsible for what happens on sites other than nationstates.net, in the same way that Hasbro is not expected to adjudicate family disputes arising from games of Monopoly. Offsite forums have been a valuable resource for communities for close to two decades. We're not banning links to them simply because some bad stuff can be found in parts of a few of them. Similarly, we don't ban Wikipedia links just because Wikipedia also hosts pages with content that violates site rules (e.g. images that would fall foul of the Obscene rule).

If someone is linking on NationStates to a webpage that contains Harassing material on that page, report it and we'll deal with the link.

This is completely unfair and unconscionable. It is only 2-clicks-away to get to the harassing material.

Why can't you just warn those Forum Owners to take down the harassment? I am constantly getting grieved by complete strangers. If this is the sort of material you'd ban from on-site NS, and if you ban direct links to porn from NS, why can you allow this?

Your logic is the same logic as allowing WFE links to off-site forums that have porn in "found in parts of a few of them."

Just because the thread is placed inside a subforum (so not the front page, but 1 forum IN,) does not protect me. It takes no effort to click inside the website, a second time!

Some of the accusations on the other forums, are complete harassment, and incite mobs of NS players (who joined those forums which require a NationStates Nation to become a citizen) to post and post and harass. Why can't you just stop this harassment by snipping out the root of the source?

Posted a tame screenshot but I have worse screenshots that happened to me, that I'm not posting because they are rulebreaking. TEP's statement was "amended" because I begged them for YEARS to, but it's still pretty bad and still gets linked. OTHER FORUMS did not bother to amend their statements, and those lies have caused me serious issues and OOC stress.

[Wymondham]

Without even attempting to address the controversial question of who did what where and to whom, I personally feel that banning the forums of certain regions based on the potential for untruths to have been said about a player sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. The moderation team have long made clear that they do not wish to be arbiters of truth (citation) , only arbiters of the site rules, and to place such a burden on them would, to me, be grossly unfair as well as creating a fair bit of potential for abuse. Furthermore, the matter of slander/libel is a legal question that is naturally up to the courts to determine not the administrators, however responsible, of a website. Finally, I would question how the moderators are meant to determine which websites are good and which websites are bad under such a rule, the caseload created would be immense and many judgements somewhat subjective?

When do you think the "courts" are going to address anything happening on an internet platform, especially some backwater like NationStates?

Libel and Slander are legal terms with legal meanings, if a player feels they have been libelled or slandered then in my opinion the moderators of a website, however qualified, shouldn't be asked to determine whether a tort or, in some jurisdictions, a crime has occurred - that is asking them to do a job that I doubt any of them signed up for. And that is putting aside moderation's oft expressed level of discomfort in being asked to arbitrate and find the truth, rather than just enforce the rules.

[Queen Yuno]

When do you think the "courts" are going to address anything happening on an internet platform, especially some backwater like NationStates?

Libel and Slander are legal terms with legal meanings, if a player feels they have been libelled or slandered then in my opinion the moderators of a website, however qualified, shouldn't be asked to determine whether a tort or, in some jurisdictions, a crime has occured

While that is not the moderator's job to decide about crime or courts or torts, that's irrelevant: NationStates is still a private website. That means that NationStates has the right to ban these harassing-material websites (that have caused serious grievance, constantly for 4-5 years), without mentioning libel or slander or anything about the law.

NationStates would not be taking legal action by doing this. NationStates would be taking a private action, which is banning inappropriate material (the WFE forum URL, which has a PUBLIC humilation section that anyone from NS who clicks into it, can see without being registered or logged in) that has been causing their dedicated NS player, constant OOC grief and suffering, for so many years.

[Aivintis]

I’m sorry so you’re saying you didn’t know about the circumstances of the Wedding Server as described? And that you have mentioned this to the EP Admins?

[Belshekistan]

I've been on this site going on five years now and I've never even heard of this. Regardless, this seems like a massive oversight on the part of the moderation team. GCRs linking to sites that contain false claims and harassment is simply shameful and should not happen.

[Queen Yuno]

I’m sorry so you’re saying you didn’t know about the circumstances of the Wedding Server as described? And that you have mentioned this to the EP Admins?

^Here is an example of a random NS noob who wanders into the FORUM URL linked directly on the GCR's WFE.

See?

See these random people believing these fake rumors about me?


Some approach me, and others don't approach me but resent me, solely because of those websites.


This is the kind of thing that I want to STOP.

[Wymondham]

Libel and Slander are legal terms with legal meanings, if a player feels they have been libelled or slandered then in my opinion the moderators of a website, however qualified, shouldn't be asked to determine whether a tort or, in some jurisdictions, a crime has occured

While that is not the moderator's job to decide about crime or courts or torts, that's irrelevant: NationStates is still a private website. That means that NationStates has the right to ban these harassing-material websites (that have caused serious grievance, constantly for 4-5 years), without mentioning libel or slander.

I was merely addressing your statement that "Apparently in this game, the slander/libel is allowed.....", I'd also question where NS is meant to draw the line on what constitutes a harassing website, and whether publishing an allegedly false claim about another player would fall within that line (would it depend on the severity of the claim, and how would truth or falsity be proved given that the mods' longstanding policy on offsite evidence?)

[The Coordination of the Motile Galaxy]

Libel and Slander are legal terms with legal meanings, if a player feels they have been libelled or slandered then in my opinion the moderators of a website, however qualified, shouldn't be asked to determine whether a tort or, in some jurisdictions, a crime has occured

While that is not the moderator's job to decide about crime or courts or torts, that's irrelevant: NationStates is still a private website. That means that NationStates has the right to ban these harassing-material websites (that have caused serious grievance, constantly for 4-5 years), without mentioning libel or slander.

What you call "libel" others might call "freedom of expression". No matter how much you claim that you are a victim of slander and libel, at the end of the day, the decision will be made by moderation, and that is something they have often expressed no wish to do, simply because of how difficult it is. They have enough of a hard time policing the NS forums as-is, without having to try and arbitrate, find evidence and ban content from a third-party website.

As people above have said - take it up with the mods of those websites. Either that or just ignore it - at the end of the day, it is just words on a website.

[Aivintis]

I’m sorry so you’re saying you didn’t know about the circumstances of the Wedding Server as described? And that you have mentioned this to the EP Admins?

^Here is an example of a random NS noob who wanders into the FORUM URL linked directly on the GCR's WFE.

See?

See these random people believing these fake rumors about me?


Some approach me, and others don't approach me but resent me, solely because of those websites.


This is the kind of thing that I want to STOP.

I think after over three years I am beyond being called a noob. Additionally, you do not address the point of my point at all. Your claim means nothing if you can’t clarify.

[Brox Reple]

I would just like to say that if you have a problem with random people DMing you on Discord you can always restrict DMs to friends only

[Sandaoguo]

If you’re serious about defamatory statements, you can send a demand letter. WHOIS the domain of it’s a top-level (like TSP’s domain), and you’ll find where to send it. If it’s a free forum host, send it to the host. Without your actual name being attached to any of these, the only reputation damaged is your online one on this game. So ymmv with that.

[Nepleslia]

If being an active member of NationStates stresses you out so much, then… why not just take an extended hiatus or retire? Why demand that links to off-site forums be censored when those links can still easily be spread via DMs or Discord - the latter of which the site admins have literally no control over whatsoever?

Edit: Honestly, in my opinion this is the kind of thing should’ve been privately brought up with the powers-that-be of NS - as this thread is only causing the Streisand effect to occur with regards to the thread on the TEP forum.

[Vetelo]

While that is not the moderator's job to decide about crime or courts or torts, that's irrelevant: NationStates is still a private website. That means that NationStates has the right to ban these harassing-material websites (that have caused serious grievance, constantly for 4-5 years), without mentioning libel or slander.

What you call "libel" others might call "freedom of expression". No matter how much you claim that you are a victim of slander and libel, at the end of the day, the decision will be made by moderation, and that is something they have often expressed no wish to do, simply because of how difficult it is. They have enough of a hard time policing the NS forums as-is, without having to try and arbitrate, find evidence and ban content from a third-party website.

As people above have said - take it up with the mods of those websites. Either that or just ignore it - at the end of the day, it is just words on a website.

It's more than just "words on a website" when it affects the way you have to conduct yourself on this site. And of course it never stops there, as Yuno was saying previously, she is suffering irl as a result of "offsite" conduct. I would also argue that harassing someone or making false claims about them does not lie under "freedom of expression"..

the mods of these offsite forums aren't going to take action when they have no reason to, either.

Edit: I'll quote Yuno here "In the past, whenever I had submitted reports to "reputable" off-site admins (ns players), those same admins would leak my private reports to outside parties, or even the directly reported players, and violate my privacy, which has made me extremely stressed out. And led to more harassment on me. They would stir the pot."

[Vetelo]

If being an active member of NationStates stresses you out so much, then… why not just take an extended hiatus or retire? Why demand that links to off-site forums be censored when those links can still easily be spread via DMs or Discord - the latter of which the site admins have literally no control over whatsoever?

Did you even read Yun's post? She has retired so many fricking times, but it's not easy when you have a huge connection to this site through your past experiences, friends, and time spent here. Even when you quit, things that happened here will still follow you.

[Alcala-Cordel]

If being an active member of NationStates stresses you out so much, then… why not just take an extended hiatus or retire? Why demand that links to off-site forums be censored when those links can still easily be spread via DMs or Discord - the latter of which the site admins have literally no control over whatsoever?

They kinda should do something if it's bad enough, though. Harassing people from NS off-site does still relate to NS, especially given that the harassment is being linked to this site. This is actively causing harm to Yuno in real life, and the mods here have the power to do something about that.

[Queen Yuno]

I want to add on another response to Sedge:

(The other people posting comments and suggestions to me, are not helpful. I already know all that stuff. I'm asking for a NATIONSTATES POLICY CHANGE, not a "how do I deal with harassment offsite? how do I block people?" I'm not asking for personal advice. I'm asking NationStates to change, and issue out warnings or moderation-imposed URL removals.)

NationStates is not responsible for what happens on sites other than nationstates.net, in the same way that Hasbro is not expected to adjudicate family disputes arising from games of Monopoly. Offsite forums have been a valuable resource for communities for close to two decades. We're not banning links to them simply because some bad stuff can be found in parts of a few of them. Similarly, we don't ban Wikipedia links just because Wikipedia also hosts pages with content that violates site rules (e.g. images that would fall foul of the Obscene rule).

"The three-click rule or three click rule is an unofficial web design rule concerning the design of website navigation. It suggests that a user of a website should be able to find any information with no more than three mouse clicks. It is based on the belief that users of a site will become frustrated and often leave if they cannot find the information within the three clicks."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-click_rule


Well, it only takes that few amount of clicks to get to the offending harassment page about me.


This is a NS rule:

*Accusations of misconduct that may bring real world repercussions outside of NationStates do not belong in public spaces on NationStates and will be punished as harassment. Players may post, in general terms, about factual repercussions taken in response (I.e. removal from a region or regional position), but may not go into details or link to material that does.

I simply want this rule, to apply to ALL forum websites that get linked to Game-Created-Regions' World Factbook Entries.

Extend the same harassment rules off-site.

People can make fake announcements on me all they want on DISCORD, let them. But material that is not allowed in Nationstates Official Forums, should logically not be allowed on user-created FORUMS EITHER. I know that you can't control what people put on their forums, but you can mod-remove their WFE links until they comply with NationStates' harassment rules.

I have seen regional founders get DoSed because their WFE Discord Server links have porn in them. So off-site evidence DOES COUNT.

[Alcala-Cordel]

While that is not the moderator's job to decide about crime or courts or torts, that's irrelevant: NationStates is still a private website. That means that NationStates has the right to ban these harassing-material websites (that have caused serious grievance, constantly for 4-5 years), without mentioning libel or slander.

What you call "libel" others might call "freedom of expression".

You can't always justify shit by labeling it "free expression", and having the legal right to say something doesn't guarantee its protection from all consequence.

No matter how much you claim that you are a victim of slander and libel, at the end of the day, the decision will be made by moderation, and that is something they have often expressed no wish to do, simply because of how difficult it is. They have enough of a hard time policing the NS forums as-is, without having to try and arbitrate, find evidence and ban content from a third-party website.

The harassers could be banned here.

As people above have said - take it up with the mods of those websites. Either that or just ignore it - at the end of the day, it is just words on a website.

You underestimate the impact that words can have.