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Fixing Regional Polls

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
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Lenlyvit
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Fixing Regional Polls

Postby Lenlyvit » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:06 am

I remember looking through the Gameside development tech thread and seeing a post about polls, and Sedge (maybe?) asking someone to make a thread about them. I haven't yet seen any threads trying to come up with new ideas in regional polls, so I figured I would make one now. I just ask that you bear with me, as sometimes my ideas don't make a lot of sense.

1. Links

As of now, no links to anything on the internet work in regional polls. I think it would be nice if we could at least be able to use links on the NS site and forum that would bring us to the thing we're linking to (hot links), such as dispatches and forum threads as well as nations and regions. Another thing that would be helpful if hot links are added is the ability to use NS bbcode to shorten the said links, such as the url code and the nation/region codes.

2. Voter Eligibility

Right now I think we have a pretty good spread of options on voter eligibility, however I wish to bring up the possibility of at least two new additions. Those additions would be "Nations in embassy regions" and "WA nations in embassy regions". I believe that these options would be beneficial to narrow down the scope of who can vote in a poll outside of a region, instead of just leaving it wide open. There are multiple regions I think would benefit from this idea being implemented to polls, such as Forest with their interregional photo contest and interregional alliances such as the URA where they could bring their voting to the NS Gameside instead of using off-site forums like they do now.

3. Hidden Poll Results

Sometimes it's beneficial to have poll results shown at all times all the way through the poll, and then sometimes it may be more beneficial to have hidden results for either a limited time or the whole time. The times I'm thinking of where it would be beneficial is when you're running a regional or interregional contest and you want people to vote based on the quality instead of the amount of votes already voted, as well as when you're running regional or interregional elections and you don't want people voting based upon the amount of votes someone has already received.

4. Multiple Simultaneous Polls

Running only one poll at a time is sometimes a shot in the foot. Things come up where regions may need to run an important poll, but can't unless they end a current poll earlier than expected or planned. I think it would be beneficial to have the ability to run more than one poll at a time, whether that's 2 or more, so that multiple things can happen in a region at a time. In its current setup a regional poll is visible on the regions main page, but I know that polls have their own page on the site where 2 or more can be run without cluttering up the region page.

5. Make Polls Easier to Access

As it stands right now it's not that easy to find a regions polls unless you go through three or four links and know how to find the said links. It may be beneficial to add a link to polls at the top of a regions page, like we have for the RMB and History and administration and rank and activity.

6. Polls Being Tied to Regional Officer Positions

This idea was brought up by Sedgistan. It may be a cool idea to tie regional polls to regional officer positions, so that real elections can take place on the NS site instead of off-site like they do now. These polls would be extremely limited in who can start them though, so that only a nation with executive power can start them. The nation starting the poll would have the option to put in a regional officer name, select which powers the officer would receive, and when the poll ended the nation with the most votes would automatically be placed in the RO spot.

These are my ideas. I'm not sure if they can be implemented, how they can be implemented, or if they'll work but I'll leave it up to the conversation and coders.



Other Ideas:

Galiantus III wrote:
Hulldom wrote:Don't know how feasible it would be (my guess is not very), but some sort of system whereby nations could rank options (and poll officers could access what nations voted for what option in what preference) might be nice.


Going with this same line of thought, could we have an option to let respondents pick multiple options on a poll? It's simpler to implement than ranking, and is already a feature of forum polls.


Haganham's Ideas: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=509236
Last edited by Lenlyvit on Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:32 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Weed
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Postby Weed » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:59 am

I think this is such an important suggestion. It has been raised many times. Currently for the people who who enjoy regional politics and that brand of play, the only place you have to discuss and organize votes is your region page or an offsite forum. Region pages for active regions are not productive because there are so many new players that the board just gets off topic. Many of us have tried doing "voting floor regions" or other "dummy regions" to allow for official voting/discussion but the issue of not being able to restrict it to WA nations is always the problem.

It has been a while since the last major offsite OOC conduct blow up (at least that I've been aware of) but every time it comes up I always point out NS is not as innocent in things as they make out. Regional politics is a large part of the game, and the sticky in the GP forum says since we don't allow region only threads so if you want to organize regional politics you need to make an offsite forum or chat. IMO, it is irresponsible to design the game with the intention a big chunk of the users will be sent offsite to the wild west of conduct, and much more should be done to make it possible for people to stay on-site. This (along with appointing officers from embassy regions too) would go a long way to making it easy to run a regional government roleplay region without needing an offsite forum because you just set up one or maybe multiple dummy regions to house elements of the regional government which could be interacted with from the main region.

I agree with each and every one of your suggestions in terms of how to make polls more functional.
Last edited by Weed on Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:50 am

I agree with all of these ideas. In particular, being limited to one poll is restrictive. I'd like to be able to link directly to the poll rather than just the page it's on, although there may be a way to do that I don't know about. I'd like to be able to edit the poll once posted, even if just to correct typos or text editing.
Perhaps even an international poll group to bandy about ideas.
Last edited by Jabberwocky on Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thousand Branches » Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:14 am

If polls are changing, I’d like to see one other thing as well. On mobile, at the moment if any option hits a very limiting length, it suddenly makes that option and often a good portion of the poll completely unreadable. I imagine this is an issue that’s been brought up in the past but I really would love to see it fixed in the same breath.

Also full support for these other changes!
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Postby Sedgistan » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:54 am

Weed wrote:It has been a while since the last major offsite OOC conduct blow up (at least that I've been aware of) but every time it comes up I always point out NS is not as innocent in things as they make out. Regional politics is a large part of the game, and the sticky in the GP forum says since we don't allow region only threads so if you want to organize regional politics you need to make an offsite forum or chat. IMO, it is irresponsible to design the game with the intention a big chunk of the users will be sent offsite to the wild west of conduct, and much more should be done to make it possible for people to stay on-site. This (along with appointing officers from embassy regions too) would go a long way to making it easy to run a regional government roleplay region without needing an offsite forum because you just set up one or maybe multiple dummy regions to house elements of the regional government which could be interacted with from the main region.

A bit unfair. Tools like Discord exist because there are thousands of games, of all types, that benefit from player coordination, and don't have the level of inbuilt features for players to do that as they wish, because rather than every game that it is beneficial for players to cooperate on independently developing loads of their own communication software, it's much better for them to focus on enhancing their gameplay and letting dedicated platforms (Discord, forums etc.) provide the tools for that coordination.

That said, I do still want to see more use of polls onsite, and part of my commentary on them previously is that they could be made much more meaningful if used for things like elections (linking with Regional Officers) and legislation (linking with Dispatches). Those are much bigger changes than what Lenlyvit has suggested though.

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Postby Hulldom » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:44 pm

Don't know how feasible it would be (my guess is not very), but some sort of system whereby nations could rank options (and poll officers could access what nations voted for what option in what preference) might be nice.
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Postby Giovanniland » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:26 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:I agree with all of these ideas. In particular, being limited to one poll is restrictive. I'd like to be able to link directly to the poll rather than just the page it's on, although there may be a way to do that I don't know about. I'd like to be able to edit the poll once posted, even if just to correct typos or text editing.
Perhaps even an international poll group to bandy about ideas.

There are links for polls already, when it's an ongoing poll you can click on its title on the region page and it will lead you to the poll's page. For example, the current poll by the Pacific: https://www.nationstates.net/page=poll/p=181431

I can also share the feel of having mistyped something in a poll and then having to delete and create again, however the issue with editing polls is that you could edit options to say entirely different things after people voted on them. Though perhaps this could be prevented by having a second step for poll creation, where the poll is already created but you are able to fix any mistakes, before then starting the timer and allowing people to vote (a preview-like function). I'm not sure how technically feasible that would be.

Lenlyvit wrote:5. Make Polls Easier to Access

As it stands right now it's not that easy to find a regions polls unless you go through three or four links and know how to find the said links. It may be beneficial to add a link to polls at the top of a regions page, like we have for the RMB and History and administration and rank and activity.

When a region has an active poll (e.g. the Pacific as I speak), there is a "Poll" icon together with RMB, History, etc that works as an anchor to the part of the regional page where people can vote. Would you envision it being replaced by the link to a region's poll history as you describe, or having them coexisting?
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Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:50 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:5. Make Polls Easier to Access

As it stands right now it's not that easy to find a regions polls unless you go through three or four links and know how to find the said links. It may be beneficial to add a link to polls at the top of a regions page, like we have for the RMB and History and administration and rank and activity.

This is what I would rank highest priority for me. It has been multiple times that I've tried to look for old polls and been on ten URLs before I ended up on any region's poll history to directly edit the link to be for my region.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:10 pm

Giovanniland wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:5. Make Polls Easier to Access

As it stands right now it's not that easy to find a regions polls unless you go through three or four links and know how to find the said links. It may be beneficial to add a link to polls at the top of a regions page, like we have for the RMB and History and administration and rank and activity.

When a region has an active poll (e.g. the Pacific as I speak), there is a "Poll" icon together with RMB, History, etc that works as an anchor to the part of the regional page where people can vote. Would you envision it being replaced by the link to a region's poll history as you describe, or having them coexisting?

Would coexisting make there be too many links? I think it would. Instead of it leading to the part of the regional page when there's an active poll I think it should be there permanently to lead to the independent page a poll can exist on. If there's an active poll there it will show that, and if there isn't then it will show all previous regional polls that have existed. That was my thought, I hope it makes sense.

Sedgistan wrote:
Weed wrote:It has been a while since the last major offsite OOC conduct blow up (at least that I've been aware of) but every time it comes up I always point out NS is not as innocent in things as they make out. Regional politics is a large part of the game, and the sticky in the GP forum says since we don't allow region only threads so if you want to organize regional politics you need to make an offsite forum or chat. IMO, it is irresponsible to design the game with the intention a big chunk of the users will be sent offsite to the wild west of conduct, and much more should be done to make it possible for people to stay on-site. This (along with appointing officers from embassy regions too) would go a long way to making it easy to run a regional government roleplay region without needing an offsite forum because you just set up one or maybe multiple dummy regions to house elements of the regional government which could be interacted with from the main region.

A bit unfair. Tools like Discord exist because there are thousands of games, of all types, that benefit from player coordination, and don't have the level of inbuilt features for players to do that as they wish, because rather than every game that it is beneficial for players to cooperate on independently developing loads of their own communication software, it's much better for them to focus on enhancing their gameplay and letting dedicated platforms (Discord, forums etc.) provide the tools for that coordination.

That said, I do still want to see more use of polls onsite, and part of my commentary on them previously is that they could be made much more meaningful if used for things like elections (linking with Regional Officers) and legislation (linking with Dispatches). Those are much bigger changes than what Lenlyvit has suggested though.

Are those kind of changes possible? If so, and they can be implemented, I don't see any problem with that idea.
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Weed
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Postby Weed » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:32 pm

Sedgistan wrote:
Weed wrote:It has been a while since the last major offsite OOC conduct blow up (at least that I've been aware of) but every time it comes up I always point out NS is not as innocent in things as they make out. Regional politics is a large part of the game, and the sticky in the GP forum says since we don't allow region only threads so if you want to organize regional politics you need to make an offsite forum or chat. IMO, it is irresponsible to design the game with the intention a big chunk of the users will be sent offsite to the wild west of conduct, and much more should be done to make it possible for people to stay on-site. This (along with appointing officers from embassy regions too) would go a long way to making it easy to run a regional government roleplay region without needing an offsite forum because you just set up one or maybe multiple dummy regions to house elements of the regional government which could be interacted with from the main region.

A bit unfair. Tools like Discord exist because there are thousands of games, of all types, that benefit from player coordination, and don't have the level of inbuilt features for players to do that as they wish, because rather than every game that it is beneficial for players to cooperate on independently developing loads of their own communication software, it's much better for them to focus on enhancing their gameplay and letting dedicated platforms (Discord, forums etc.) provide the tools for that coordination.

I strongly disagree with the comparison, for the record, since we'll do the song and dance again of course.
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Postby Galiantus III » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:11 pm

Hulldom wrote:Don't know how feasible it would be (my guess is not very), but some sort of system whereby nations could rank options (and poll officers could access what nations voted for what option in what preference) might be nice.


Going with this same line of thought, could we have an option to let respondents pick multiple options on a poll? It's simpler to implement than ranking, and is already a feature of forum polls.
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Postby All Wild Things » Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:25 am

Some great ideas!

Haganham had also raised a thread on this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=509236

I'll raise a "merge" request so as ideas don't get lost in different threads.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:27 am

All Wild Things wrote:Some great ideas!

Haganham had also raised a thread on this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=509236

I'll raise a "merge" request so as ideas don't get lost in different threads.

That thread has been quiet and dead since August, I believe mine should stay separate.
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Postby All Wild Things » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:09 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
All Wild Things wrote:Some great ideas!

Haganham had also raised a thread on this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=509236

I'll raise a "merge" request so as ideas don't get lost in different threads.

That thread has been quiet and dead since August, I believe mine should stay separate.

Cool. Hope you don't mind, but linked both from that Gameside development ideas thread.
(I know, I get over excited when it comes to ideas for poll Improvement)
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:11 pm

All Wild Things wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:That thread has been quiet and dead since August, I believe mine should stay separate.

Cool. Hope you don't mind, but linked both from that Gameside development ideas thread.
(I know, I get over excited when it comes to ideas for poll Improvement)

I added that link into my OP so it's easy to find. This thread isn't receiving much feedback, but I'm still hoping that Sedge can confirm whether or not polls can be tied to regional officer positions. If they can, it should probably be discussed on who would be able to create that poll whether a normal RO or just the delegate.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:04 pm

I'm just going to bump this for more feedback, and maybe techy feedback as well.
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Galiantus III
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Postby Galiantus III » Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:52 pm

Um... how about embedding polls elsewhere, like dispatches and telegrams. Not just the region page. In fact, why tie them to the region page at all?
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:32 pm

So overall, I'm bumping this again. You'll see that I've added option 6 in the list finally, which is tying regional polls to officer positions. Who would have thought that 6 months to the day after I posted my thread somebody else would post a different one?

Galiantus III wrote:Um... how about embedding polls elsewhere, like dispatches and telegrams. Not just the region page. In fact, why tie them to the region page at all?

I'm not really sure if that would be realistic or even feasible. I don't think we should go that route.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:24 pm

So, I know this is pretty low on the totem poll for possible fixes in NS. But I have to ask, is there any way we can have a very minor change to regional polls so that just nations from embassy regions can participate in the poll? I mean adding it into the list where you can select who can participate, to be more blunt.
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Postby United Calanworie » Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am

Polls are on my list of things to eventually poke at, yes. Other things are before them on the gameside comms development list, so we'll get to them when we get to them.
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