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[DEFEATED] Declaration on China

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Bhang Bhang Duc
Senator
 
Posts: 3501
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:31 am

Debussy wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Incorrect, it’s a point of view on one particular author and their behaviour, not all authors and proposals as you are trying to make out.

For what it’s worth Wayne is correct.

Tin is a great writer. If it isn't the writing, then yes, it reflects on all proposals and authors.

On the point of Tin being a great writer I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Wayneactia
Minister
 
Posts: 3070
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:18 am

Debussy wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Incorrect, it’s a point of view on one particular author and their behaviour, not all authors and proposals as you are trying to make out.

For what it’s worth Wayne is correct.

Tin is a great writer. If it isn't the writing, then yes, it reflects on all proposals and authors.

It reflects on the fact that Tinhampton is an opportunist and nothing more than that. You railing on that someone calling her out on it reflects on all authors and proposals doesn’t make your statement any more true. Tin has come up with some very creative proposals, but most of the time it is flavour of the week, low hanging fruit. You can write a beautiful proposal, but in the end you still can’t polish a turd no matter how hard you scrub.
Sarcasm dispensed liberally.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 31651
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:00 am

The criticism of Tinhampton is grossly unfair. Yes, she can be annoying at times, and there's a fair few things she's done in the past that make you wonder what on earth she was thinking. But the majority of what she contributes to the World Assembly is positive. This proposal is well-written, as are many of her others - like her or not, Tin is one of the more accomplished authors in the Security Council. This sometimes includes defying the norms of textbook "proposals by numbers" and trying different things, like the original concise "Commend Sacara". Sometimes those don't work out, but the creativity is admirable. What has been described as "opportunistic" is someone with enthusiasm for NationStates, who likes to write about different communities (such as Sports) and record NationStates current affairs for posterity - as was the case with this proposal.

Tin doesn't have anything to prove to other SCers here - 19 passed WA resolutions speak for themselves, and no - they're not uninspiring Mahaj-esque junk, there are some really well-written and valuable resolutions amongst Tin's authorship.

Or tl;dr: it's telling when Lennox of all people has the most cutting line in a debate thread:
Team Leo wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:What a waste of three days. It’s not like Tin was told this was going to happen……

At least she can write proposals Wayne.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6558
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:59 am

OOC: I don't understand how NSGP can be so fickle as to warmly praise the China liberation as a major accomplishment one week, and humdrum the next week. The liberation attempts for A Liberal Haven were not successful, and I'm not confident they'd have been successful even without the buggy update. The China Liberation is a landmark successful operation, alongside only a few comparable missions (e.g., Trovons, Puppetmaster). It remains a historic feat. Authors shouldn't be encouraged to rush through drafting their resolutions before the "hype" of an event dies down, the WA should avoid being motivated by hype at all.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

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Wayneactia
Minister
 
Posts: 3070
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:06 pm

Unibot III wrote:OOC: I don't understand how NSGP can be so fickle as to warmly praise the China liberation as a major accomplishment one week, and humdrum the next week. The liberation attempts for A Liberal Haven were not successful, and I'm not confident they'd have been successful even without the buggy update. The China Liberation is a landmark successful operation, alongside only a few comparable missions (e.g., Trovons, Puppetmaster). It remains a historic feat. Authors shouldn't be encouraged to rush through drafting their resolutions before the "hype" of an event dies down, the WA should avoid being motivated by hype at all.

China wouldn't have need to be liberated had the founder bothered to keep the founder nation alive. Just saying....

Sedgistan wrote:
The criticism of Tinhampton is grossly unfair. Yes, she can be annoying at times, and there's a fair few things she's done in the past that make you wonder what on earth she was thinking. But the majority of what she contributes to the World Assembly is positive. This proposal is well-written, as are many of her others - like her or not, Tin is one of the more accomplished authors in the Security Council. This sometimes includes defying the norms of textbook "proposals by numbers" and trying different things, like the original concise "Commend Sacara". Sometimes those don't work out, but the creativity is admirable. What has been described as "opportunistic" is someone with enthusiasm for NationStates, who likes to write about different communities (such as Sports) and record NationStates current affairs for posterity - as was the case with this proposal.

Tin doesn't have anything to prove to other SCers here - 19 passed WA resolutions speak for themselves, and no - they're not uninspiring Mahaj-esque junk, there are some really well-written and valuable resolutions amongst Tin's authorship.

Fair enough. I may have taken the criticism a bit too far and will dial it back. It still doesn't change my opinion one bit though.....

Sedgistan wrote:Or tl;dr: it's telling when Lennox of all people has the most cutting line in a debate thread:
Team Leo wrote:At least she can write proposals Wayne.

Call it what you want. I have neither the time nor the patience to play the politics required to pass resoultions. I heard enough about it from another author to know that it ain't for me.
Sarcasm dispensed liberally.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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All Wild Things
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 386
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby All Wild Things » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:14 pm

Long after the vote, I'm finally reading this. I like Tin's proposal. It captured a lot of the detail of what looked like (from here in the cheap seats) a mind-blowing gameplay event.

I was against the "2021" declaration, as I felt it was more suited to a magazine article. But since it passed, and since the "Crabs" thing passed too, I guess there's precedent for making Declarations about NS events like this. So I guess I agree with what Unibot is saying too.

And since there's these precedents, I hope someone is writing up one for A Liberal Haven. Or else I'll feel compelled to submit my draft!
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Giovanniland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 777
Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Giovanniland » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:12 am

All Wild Things wrote:And since there's these precedents, I hope someone is writing up one for A Liberal Haven. Or else I'll feel compelled to submit my draft!

I mean, there's already the liberation proposal. I suppose if native control is restored (or the off chance raiders manage a refound) that will be repealed, and the repeal could certainly have some storytelling about the size and records of the operation.
Giovanniland

51st Delegate of the West Pacific
Former TWP Speaker of the Hall (x3), Guardian and Minister of Foreign Affairs

Trading Card Collector (#1 for bank, briefly #1 for deck value)
WA Author (
SC#364, SC#372, SC#373, SC#377)

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All Wild Things
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 386
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby All Wild Things » Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:29 pm

Giovanniland wrote:
All Wild Things wrote:And since there's these precedents, I hope someone is writing up one for A Liberal Haven. Or else I'll feel compelled to submit my draft!

I mean, there's already the liberation proposal. I suppose if native control is restored (or the off chance raiders manage a refound) that will be repealed, and the repeal could certainly have some storytelling about the size and records of the operation.

Apologies - I saw this a couple of days ago, but forgot to reply. You're absolutely right. The repeal (assuming it comes) would be a great place for that level of detail.

Edit: *checks* ...and of course it has some of that detail!
Last edited by All Wild Things on Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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