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[DEFEATED] Condemn The Communist Bloc

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Nationalist Northumbria
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[DEFEATED] Condemn The Communist Bloc

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:22 am

OK, my previous two proposals have met a lot of criticism for being self-commends, so I'm going for something which can't be attacked over that at all.




The Security Council,

APPALLED by The Communist Bloc's "red imperialism", which truly knows no bounds, including the raiding and destruction of fellow communists in the Congress of Armed Proletarian States,

DISGUSTED by support for dictators and genocides within the region's communication systems, which have led to many nations leaving,

HORRIFIED at how nations that deny genocides receive no punishment whatsoever, despite the regional rules claiming to prohibit "denial of historical or ongoing serious crimes", indicating that the regional government also denies these genocides,

OUTRAGED at the region's rejection of basic human rights,

CONCERNED by the region's tall, imposing walls, which seek to imprison freedom-seeking peoples within the region,

Hereby condemns The Communist Bloc.




Also, I have the equivalent of a U.S. dollar to spare, so this is going to quorum.
Last edited by Sedgistan on Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Andusre
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Andusre » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:33 am

Condemn TCB has already been tried more than once based on similar-ish grounds - those attempts failed & this one will too if you push it to quorum. The Communist Bloc is an awesome region which, to my knowledge, doesn't want a condemnation, especially one written like this.

It seems like this proposal is mostly based on your RL perceptions of communism, and I'm not going to engage on that because that's a fool's errand which isn't appropriate for the SC - the reason I bring it up is because Condemnations for in-character bad people are often viewed as the equivalent to Commendations in-character good people, and nominees who are condemned often wear the badge as one of honour & pride.

TCB are not in-character villains like The Black Hawks or Lone Wolves United are, and thus condemnations of them are not going to go very far particularly when the proposal is not even remotely addressing in-character actions.


TLDR - I & others won't support this. You need IC arguments for a condemnation, not an OOC distaste for communism.

PS - it doesn't help your case that a lot of NationStates players are communist/far-left. Myself included :)
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Unkzier
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Postby Unkzier » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:40 am

Against, This proposal offends a lot of people including myself as TCB was my former home.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:43 am

Andusre wrote:
Condemn TCB has already been tried more than once based on similar-ish grounds - those attempts failed & this one will too if you push it to quorum. The Communist Bloc is an awesome region which, to my knowledge, doesn't want a condemnation, especially one written like this.

It seems like this proposal is mostly based on your RL perceptions of communism, and I'm not going to engage on that because that's a fool's errand which isn't appropriate for the SC - the reason I bring it up is because Condemnations for in-character bad people are often viewed as the equivalent to Commendations in-character good people, and nominees who are condemned often wear the badge as one of honour & pride.

TCB are not in-character villains like The Black Hawks or Lone Wolves United are, and thus condemnations of them are not going to go very far particularly when the proposal is not even remotely addressing in-character actions.


TLDR - I & others won't support this. You need IC arguments for a condemnation, not an OOC distaste for communism.

PS - it doesn't help your case that a lot of NationStates players are communist/far-left. Myself included :)

This isn't a proposal to condemn them as a reward, it's a proposal to condemn them for their actions.

Also, it's not based on my RL perceptions of communism; it's based on the region's actions, and the actions of its members. No more, no less.

Unkzier wrote:Against, This proposal offends a lot of people including myself as TCB was my former home.

TCB is also my former home (I was a communist once), so this argument holds no sway, sorry.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:47 am

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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:53 am

APPALLED by The Communist Bloc's "red imperialism", which truly knows no bounds, including the raiding and destruction of fellow communists in the Congress of Armed Proletarian States,


Not entirely accurate. Libertatem, a "libertarian" region, destroyed this region, not The Communist Bloc.
Last edited by Honeydewistania on Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The Republic of Western Sol
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Postby The Republic of Western Sol » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:53 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:I have submitted this proposal.

Bro it’s not gonna go through
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Indo States
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Indo States » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:56 am

The Fatimanian Delegation to the World Assembly, and the Fatimanian Delegation to The Communist Bloc Denounces this Proposal as the Attack to their Community and to Promote their Imperialist and Capitalist Beliefs, in which, the Fatimanian Government has Encouraged the Sides of the Nationalist Northumbria and The Communist Bloc to Mediate, while they also Encouraged not to make Kind of These Proposals based on Ideological Theories and Attempts to Overthrow the TCB.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:17 am

The Republic of Western Sol wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:I have submitted this proposal.

Bro it’s not gonna go through

Please present your reasoning.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:23 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
APPALLED by The Communist Bloc's "red imperialism", which truly knows no bounds, including the raiding and destruction of fellow communists in the Congress of Armed Proletarian States,


Not entirely accurate. Libertatem, a "libertarian" region, destroyed this region, not The Communist Bloc.

With the assistance of The Communist Bloc.
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which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

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FNU
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Postby FNU » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:25 am

Two quickies: Submitting something with so little time for criticism and refinement isn't a good move. You could probably find a way to make this more then an OOC complaint about communism if you gave people time to respond or found other people that could tell you IC reasons, leading into the second issue. OOC feelings don't really matter in the WA. If you browse through any condemnation or commendations of a region, it's because either they're a "heroic" region to the "people" of NationStates, or in the case of those like the Black Hawks, it's because they're the "evil" destroyers of communities. But it's all IC, OOC the people of both those regions are relatively nice folk. I haven't ever written a proposal, nor will I ever, however it's best that you give things like this to build sustenance rather then simply saying "communism is bad, condemn this communist region."
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Polomon Islands
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Postby Polomon Islands » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:27 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:
Not entirely accurate. Libertatem, a "libertarian" region, destroyed this region, not The Communist Bloc.

With the assistance of The Communist Bloc.

You submitted this so quick.
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Manndown
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Manndown » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:31 am

Nice try, I guess. :clap:

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:33 am

FNU wrote:Two quickies: Submitting something with so little time for criticism and refinement isn't a good move. You could probably find a way to make this more then an OOC complaint about communism if you gave people time to respond or found other people that could tell you IC reasons, leading into the second issue. OOC feelings don't really matter in the WA. If you browse through any condemnation or commendations of a region, it's because either they're a "heroic" region to the "people" of NationStates, or in the case of those like the Black Hawks, it's because they're the "evil" destroyers of communities. But it's all IC, OOC the people of both those regions are relatively nice folk. I haven't ever written a proposal, nor will I ever, however it's best that you give things like this to build sustenance rather then simply saying "communism is bad, condemn this communist region."

What IC reasons? The Communist Bloc doesn't post on the RP forums. Also, condemnations can be more than rewards/commendations for the 'bad guys', as this one is. Also, while I may be an anti-communist, this proposal does not actually use "communism is bad" as a justification for condemning TCB. Its imperialism (including its participation in the destruction of a fellow communist region), the presence of genocide denial that goes unpunished on its RMB, and the rejection of basic human rights by its member nations are the reasons given, not "communism is bad."
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:34 am

Polomon Islands wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:With the assistance of The Communist Bloc.

You submitted this so quick.
Anyways I'm Against.

Why?

Manndown wrote:Nice try, I guess. :clap:

Your national motto is "Conquer and Prosper", further proof of TCB's red imperialism.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:37 am

It has been brought to my attention that a member of The Communist Bloc invited others to 'raid' this thread, saying they had 'the spam ready'. While their Minister of Culture did suppress their post, they did so because "don't go ahead and announce you're going to do something like that on the RMB" - their issue was not with the proposed spam itself, but that it was announced on the RMB.

This sort of thing is why we need to condemn The Communist Bloc.
Last edited by Nationalist Northumbria on Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Feyrisshire
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:37 am

Full support!

I myself am concerned by the region's tall imposing walls!
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:40 am

Feyrisshire wrote:Full support!

I myself am concerned by the region's tall imposing walls!

Don't you deny that the Holodomor was a genocide on the region's RMB?
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Postby FNU » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:40 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:What IC reasons? The Communist Bloc doesn't post on the RP forums. Also, condemnations can be more than rewards/commendations for the 'bad guys', as this one is. Also, while I may be an anti-communist, this proposal does not actually use "communism is bad" as a justification for condemning TCB. Its imperialism (including its participation in the destruction of a fellow communist region), the presence of genocide denial that goes unpunished on its RMB, and the rejection of basic human rights by its member nations are the reasons given, not "communism is bad."

If there's genocide denial on their RMB, that's a matter of the moderation team, not the WA. It's imperialism is no different then any other politically motivated raiding region, i.e. the Mariner Trench or KAISERREICH, and shouldn't be seen as a personal attack. If your region get's raided, you can always migrate to a new region. While there's some base for a condemnation with their member states commonly lacking human rights, that's about the whole of it. Also, slinging around "red imperialism" makes it nothing more then an ineffective buzz phrase, and if they did bother to spam this thread, it's still not an IC matter, but simply people being mischievous for the sake of being mischievous.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:43 am

Another lazy attempt at getting a badge. Your writing is uninspired and as per normal you haven’t gotten off your arse and done some real research.

If this does get to the vote TWP will vote against it.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:46 am

FNU wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:What IC reasons? The Communist Bloc doesn't post on the RP forums. Also, condemnations can be more than rewards/commendations for the 'bad guys', as this one is. Also, while I may be an anti-communist, this proposal does not actually use "communism is bad" as a justification for condemning TCB. Its imperialism (including its participation in the destruction of a fellow communist region), the presence of genocide denial that goes unpunished on its RMB, and the rejection of basic human rights by its member nations are the reasons given, not "communism is bad."

If there's genocide denial on their RMB, that's a matter of the moderation team, not the WA. It's imperialism is no different then any other politically motivated raiding region, i.e. the Mariner Trench or KAISERREICH, and shouldn't be seen as a personal attack. If your region get's raided, you can always migrate to a new region. While there's some base for a condemnation with their member states commonly lacking human rights, that's about the whole of it. Also, slinging around "red imperialism" makes it nothing more then an ineffective buzz phrase, and if they did bother to spam this thread, it's still not an IC matter, but simply people being mischievous for the sake of being mischievous.

The fact that genocide denial goes unpunished, and that the region's Minister of World Assembly Affairs Feyrisshire engages in it themselves, indicates that the region itself shares the belief that the Holodomor was not a genocide. I don't know why you're talking about "personal attacks" and "if your region get's raided, you can always migrate to a new region" because that has zero relevance.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Another lazy attempt at getting a badge. Your writing is uninspired and as per normal you haven’t gotten off your arse and done some real research.

If this does get to the vote TWP will vote against it.

It's never been about badges. If it was about getting badges, why did I put in the work for the Condemn TCB proposal not written by me earlier this year?
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
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FNU
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FNU » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:54 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The fact that genocide denial goes unpunished, and that the region's Minister of World Assembly Affairs Feyrisshire engages in it themselves, indicates that the region itself shares the belief that the Holodomor was not a genocide. I don't know why you're talking about "personal attacks" and "if your region get's raided, you can always migrate to a new region" because that has zero relevance.

I reiterate that it's when it's pure genocide denial it's no longer a matter of the WA, but of the moderation team. As for the reference to my line on personal attacks and migration, I was merely replying based on the tone of your writing.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:02 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Another lazy attempt at getting a badge. Your writing is uninspired and as per normal you haven’t gotten off your arse and done some real research.

If this does get to the vote TWP will vote against it.

It's never been about badges. If it was about getting badges, why did I put in the work for the Condemn TCB proposal not written by me earlier this year?

Well your two attempts at a self-commend currently active in this forum speaks volumes about your desire to get an author’s badge.

As for the attempt earlier this year I have no idea what motivated you to do that apart from wanting to shit stir. Anyway what would I know: I have many talents but mind reading isn’t one of them.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:06 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:It's never been about badges. If it was about getting badges, why did I put in the work for the Condemn TCB proposal not written by me earlier this year?

Well your two attempts at a self-commend currently active in this forum speaks volumes about your desire to get an author’s badge.

As for the attempt earlier this year I have no idea what motivated you to do that apart from wanting to shit stir. Anyway what would I know: I have many talents but mind reading isn’t one of them.

And I said I would submit those on a WA puppet, so I wouldn't be getting any badges. So I'm not sure why you're continuing to make such outlandish and irrelevant accusations.
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
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Perikuresu
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Perikuresu » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:08 am

Didn't we have the same thing back in March?
Last edited by Perikuresu on Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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