Slavery uncovered in Georgia

[Unkzier]

That is horrible

[Mackiland]

You mean you're anti-choice and pro-forcing women to act as incubators against their will?

I believe this is exactly what they meant! xD Everything in life is just black and white!
You guys prefer move to abortion thread.

[Dakini]

Some of the USA visas have had some problems with employers overworking their staff for some time (I don't think it's limited to the H-2A ones). But the problem here seems to be a lack of oversight and probably a lack of information given to the visa holders about their rights. It might help if there are interviews with visa holders (in their native languages if possible) to explain to them that their employer does not have the right to confiscate their passport. There should also be an agency they can contact if they are being abused and said agency should also run regular checks on employers to ensure that they are abiding by the rules.


Also, there's lots of slavery in the USA. What do you think prison labour is?

[Dakini]

You mean you're anti-choice and pro-forcing women to act as incubators against their will?

I believe this is exactly what they meant! xD Everything in life is just black and white!
You guys prefer move to abortion thread.

It is black and white in this case.

And pointing out a poster's total hypocrisy isn't entirely irrelevant.

[Ethel mermania]

Some of the USA visas have had some problems with employers overworking their staff for some time (I don't think it's limited to the H-2A ones). But the problem here seems to be a lack of oversight and probably a lack of information given to the visa holders about their rights. It might help if there are interviews with visa holders (in their native languages if possible) to explain to them that their employer does not have the right to confiscate their passport. There should also be an agency they can contact if they are being abused and said agency should also run regular checks on employers to ensure that they are abiding by the rules.


Also, there's lots of slavery in the USA. What do you think prison labour is?

The work visas are tied to employment, H1-b's for example. I have found the situation similar in other countries, when I was considering working as an ex-pat my company had to sponsor my application for a work visa.

Was it similar for you?

[Dakini]

Some of the USA visas have had some problems with employers overworking their staff for some time (I don't think it's limited to the H-2A ones). But the problem here seems to be a lack of oversight and probably a lack of information given to the visa holders about their rights. It might help if there are interviews with visa holders (in their native languages if possible) to explain to them that their employer does not have the right to confiscate their passport. There should also be an agency they can contact if they are being abused and said agency should also run regular checks on employers to ensure that they are abiding by the rules.


Also, there's lots of slavery in the USA. What do you think prison labour is?

The work visas are tied to employment, H1-b's for example. I have found the situation similar in other countries, when I was considering working as an ex-pat my company had to sponsor my application for a work visa.

Was it similar for you?

Yeah, they are tied to employment. And it can be difficult to get help if your employer is exploitative. This definitely isn't limited to the USA (iirc, the USA also prevents spouses and other dependents from working on most of its visas, which isn't the case in all countries, but is in some). The suggestions I offer could also be taken up by other countries as well.

A lot of countries are pretty shitty to immigrants who come to work as they are very happy to use immigrants and toss them aside instead of allowing them to remain permanently and set down proper roots (I found the UK was definitely like that).

I mean, personally, I think that Canada does pretty well as you can be eligible for permanent residency in a relatively short period of time (two years), but it does have some obstacles (e.g. you need to pass one of a selection of tests for English or French fluency for PR status). I'm also not sure if it checks in on workplaces to ensure that employers aren't effectively enslaving their workforce in the meantime though.

[Kerwa]

Ah the US Government! I love my country so much! (This is sarcasm, if you can't tell)

How is this the governments fault? The feds didn't confiscate the passports. These fellows are being prosecuted for their crimes.

Presumably there ought to be some passing interest in who is doing the sponsoring and the conditions of the employment given the nature of the scheme.

The “employers” are still the main culprit of course, but I can see why some people would think the government is partly at fault too, even if it’s just negligence.

[-Azteca Mexico]

Not Surprised

[Segland]

Terrible. Digging for onions with your bare hands is troublesome enough, even without the threat of being shot. From what I've read it would seem that more oversight, better information for workers about their rights under the visa program, and giving workers the opportunity to switch employers without losing H-2A status would help.

[Libertarians]

Americans can't be found to do the work or don't want to-

Nope. This is pure big business spin. I've done payroll for farmers, they never express it this way. They say the same thing medical offices and such say about their cleaning staff...
"I would rather hire a citizen to not have to deal with all of this*, but every time I try they want like $20/hour. Without a college degree! That's what you make right out of college to clean an office or do manual labor."
*all of this = me saying they literally are breaking the law if we don't get an ssn or tin

I heard that over and over and over and over dealing with payroll in the south. Sigh. It's all about business people from the boomer generation trying to continue to pay people what they paid people when they first started their business. Really messed up situation.

[Grenartia]

Seems to me the only sensible course of action is to guarantee citizenship or permanent residence, in addition to monetary compensation, to all immigrant victims of illegal employment practices. If the victims know they can go to the authorities without any risk of deportation, then these modern slavers will be more easily found out.

In this case they could have they were here legally.

And yes they should sue the crap out of the slavers after the criminal cases are done.

Well, with their legal proof of legally being here seized, its basically their word against the slavers'. Plus, its not like legal immigrants haven't been deported under false pretense before. Even within the last few years.

Slavery literally never died in the United States, it just took on new forms and names following the Civil War, so this isn't a bit surprising.

Modern slavery and human trafficking is everywhere, even within the EU, so this isn't a special American thing.

It even happens (with government sanction) in Workers' Paradise China.

Away down South in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and alligators,
Right away! Come away! Right away! Right away, come away!
Where cotton's king and men are chattles,
Union boys will win the battles, right away!
Come away! Right away! Right away, come away!

We'll all go down to Dixie, away! Away!
Each Dixie boy must understand that he must mind his Uncle Sam
Away! Away! We'll all go down to Dixie!
Away! Away! We'll all go down to Dixie!

General Sherman do it again

Still can't believe that was posted by "General Lee".

Americans can't be found to do the work or don't want to-

Nope. This is pure big business spin. I've done payroll for farmers, they never express it this way. They say the same thing medical offices and such say about their cleaning staff...
"I would rather hire a citizen to not have to deal with all of this*, but every time I try they want like $20/hour. Without a college degree! That's what you make right out of college to clean an office or do manual labor."
*all of this = me saying they literally are breaking the law if we don't get an ssn or tin

I heard that over and over and over and over dealing with payroll in the south. Sigh. It's all about business people from the boomer generation trying to continue to pay people what they paid people when they first started their business. Really messed up situation.

Stealing the majority of the wealth generated by the workers is a hell of a drug.

[Libertarians]

Nope. This is pure big business spin. I've done payroll for farmers, they never express it this way. They say the same thing medical offices and such say about their cleaning staff...
"I would rather hire a citizen to not have to deal with all of this*, but every time I try they want like $20/hour. Without a college degree! That's what you make right out of college to clean an office or do manual labor."
*all of this = me saying they literally are breaking the law if we don't get an ssn or tin

I heard that over and over and over and over dealing with payroll in the south. Sigh. It's all about business people from the boomer generation trying to continue to pay people what they paid people when they first started their business. Really messed up situation.

Stealing the majority of the wealth generated by the workers is a hell of a drug.

Yep, and the woke people will fight to the death to make it easier for them, which is really just a remarkable situation we are in LOL.

[Prima Scriptura]

Stealing the majority of the wealth generated by the workers is a hell of a drug.

Yep, and the woke people will fight to the death to make it easier for them, which is really just a remarkable situation we are in LOL.

No, it’s laissez-faire capitalists , whom have been on the right for last hundred years or so that enable this type of exploitation.

[Libertarians]

Yep, and the woke people will fight to the death to make it easier for them, which is really just a remarkable situation we are in LOL.

No, it’s laissez-faire capitalists , whom have been on the right for last hundred years or so that enable this type of exploitation.

On this issue in the U.S. it is strictly a left wing position that we need unlimited immigration into the US to do the jobs "Americans won't do" for peanuts. It is also strictly a left wing position that it is society's responsibility then to pay for food/housing/healthcare of any children they have after they get here as well, creating even worse incentives in the system (poor immigrants get rewarded for having large numbers of children, employers don't feel consequences of inexcusably low wages).

None of this is a capitalist problem, this is a left wing government action problem.

[Port Caverton]

Yep, and the woke people will fight to the death to make it easier for them, which is really just a remarkable situation we are in LOL.

No, it’s laissez-faire capitalists , whom have been on the right for last hundred years or so that enable this type of exploitation.

Yeah but the libs keep voting for politicians who are lobbied by big corporations just because they have a (D) next to their name.

[Grenartia]

Stealing the majority of the wealth generated by the workers is a hell of a drug.

Yep, and the woke people will fight to the death to make it easier for them, which is really just a remarkable situation we are in LOL.

lolwtfbbq

"woke is when you encourage the bougies to steal the wealth created by labor".

No, it’s laissez-faire capitalists , whom have been on the right for last hundred years or so that enable this type of exploitation.

On this issue in the U.S. it is strictly a left wing position that we need unlimited immigration into the US to do the jobs "Americans won't do" for peanuts.

The only ones who say that are establishment Democrats. Liberalism isn't left wing.

It is also strictly a left wing position that it is society's responsibility then to pay for food/housing/healthcare of any children they have after they get here as well,

Because it is society's responsibility to take care of the basic needs of all of its members.

creating even worse incentives in the system (poor immigrants get rewarded for having large numbers of children,

Jesus Christ, you're dangerously close to spouting some "great replacement" bullshit.

employers don't feel consequences of inexcusably low wages).

My guy, leftist infighting is a thing, but one of the few things that actually unites us all is making employers feel the consequences of stealing the wealth generated by their employees. That's like, basic Labor Theory of Value.

None of this is a capitalist problem,

The profit motive is inherently the cause of the problem, and that motive is actively encouraged by capitalism.

this is a left wing government action problem.

The United States government has never been left wing, unless you define "left wing" as anyone to the left of Pinochet.

[Novus America]

Ah the US Government! I love my country so much! (This is sarcasm, if you can't tell)

Umm you do realize it was the US government (in conjunction with the state government of Georgia and county governments) who shut down the slave ring and arrested the slavers (some of the slavers were actually illegal immigrants interestingly, illegal immigrants enslaving legal ones).
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdga/pr/hu ... indictment

So was the US government and the government of Georgia wrong here? Were they wrong to shut down a slave operation?

The US government and State of Georgia did the RIGHT thing in this case!

Now you can certainly say both the Federal and state governments should take more action to deter, punish and incapacitate slavers, and that the US guest worker program has problems that need to be resolved to achieve that.

But the US government and state of Georgia (not that is is a problem unique to or uniquely common in the state of Georgia or the US as whole more than elsewhere) were actively working together to FIGHT slavery in this case, which is a good thing. Slavers getting arrested is in fact good news. The fact that slavery happens here is not news,or at least should not be.
The news here was that a slave ring was busted. That is good.

Slavery is very real, of course we say this while typing on a device no doubt incorporating components made in part with slavery, wearing clothes made in part by slavery.

There is no real coherence to allowing outsourced slavery while trying to fight it at home.
Slavery should be fought, throughly a combination of addressing it when it happens under our jurisdiction (as we did here) but also via a massive crackdown on outsourcing and imports that utilize slave labor.

[Novus America]

As others have expressed here, I'm not surprised in the least that it's happening in the USA, and even less surprised that it's from a "former" slave state

I am not surprised because I am quite aware that slavery is a massive global problem, including here in the US.

However it is a complete non sequitur to say this is related to the fact that Georgia engaged in slavery of blacks before 1865.

Unless you can prove this is more prevalent in states that allowed said black slavery, and a causal relationship this is just silly.

The situation now is dramatically different.
The shutdown of this slave operation was done “with assistance from the Georgia National Guard; the Georgia Bureau of Investigation; the Georgia State Patrol”
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdga/pr/hu ... indictment

What happened here is not legal in the state of Georgia, the state government is taking steps to combat it (surely they could and should do more but that is always the case) and the people who did this are going to face a lot of state criminal charges in addition to federal ones.

Here the state of Georgia is doing the right thing, in helping shut this down.

[Saiwania]

Nope. This is pure big business spin. I've done payroll for farmers, they never express it this way. They say the same thing medical offices and such say about their cleaning staff...

Spin or not, this more or less does appear to be the situation. When Georgia and other red states banned or controlled all immigration like I wanted, lots of crops just went to waste or rotted in the fields because no one showed up to do the work that needed doing. Really consider and think about how it is even possible for a 1 pound bag of yellow onions to only cost $0.76

Paying more for the work means needing to increase the wholesale price which will cause the retail price to increase as well, or somehow lowering the profit margin.

Wage workers in the US seem to have had the closest equivalent to their moment of power/leverage in forever because of the COVID situation. I'm just not seeing much evidence that those people are enjoying a higher quality of life or the better purchasing power that comes with a high income, such as might be the case if an individual really was skilled/qualified enough to be working in a more lucrative/elite profession and managed to now be doing that.

All that we're seeing as of now, is inflation being driven up across the board for nearly every product/service because most supply chains are disrupted or now have payroll pressures. When people shop, they're always going to favor the lower price if the perceived quality/benefit is the same. Plus from a personal finance perspective, its just impossible for most people to willingly pay more for every little thing they can buy or come across.

I haven't figured out if its even possible for all lines of work to be decent to its employees but its hard. People seem to inherently not want to ever pay more than they have to or want satisfaction for what it cost them. Onion picking seems to require people but problem is, its back breaking labor that machines/droids or automation should do instead if such technology existed or really could do the job. It doesn't exist or still needs manual labor from what I've read.

[Alcala-Cordel]

No, it’s laissez-faire capitalists , whom have been on the right for last hundred years or so that enable this type of exploitation.

On this issue in the U.S. it is strictly a left wing position that we need unlimited immigration into the US

That the government has no right to exclude people from crossing its imaginary lines, and beyond that that everyone has the right to a certain standard of living. Exploitation is a capitalist thing.

to do the jobs "Americans won't do" for peanuts.

That's happening right now. In fact, if you reread the topic, companies are responsible for it. Capitalism is dehumanizing.

It is also strictly a left wing position that it is society's responsibility then to pay for food/housing/healthcare of any children they have after they get here as well

Not exactly, but close enough I suppose.

creating even worse incentives in the system

What incentives? Without social programs the wealth gap will only widen, and if you reread the topic you might come to the realization that maybe the lower classes can't just pull themselves out of poverty with willpower. Especially not with no help.

(poor immigrants get rewarded for having large numbers of children, employers don't feel consequences of inexcusably low wages).

So the first bit is a non-issue and the second is quite literally happening under the status quo because there's no one there to really help workers who are forced into this hellish sort of work.

None of this is a capitalist problem, this is a left wing government action problem.

Capitalism is the problem. Anyways, what Gren said.

[Salus Maior]

I hope you have always opposed slavery.

Yes, including the enslavement of pregnant women to broodmare status.

Don't threadjack. Abortion isn't the subject of this thread.

[FutureAmerica]

Yes, the H-2A Visa program should be scrapped. It is legalized slavery.

[Ayytaly]

I blame this on the laziness and entitlement brought upon by Murikan Exceptionalism.

[Yankee Rike]

People who hire illegal immigrants should be charged with human trafficking and have their assets seized by the state.

The H2-A program is next on the abolition list. The only reason is a sick fuck would justify these programs is because they think our economy would collapse without cheap avocados.

[-Astoria-]

People who hire illegal immigrants should be charged with human trafficking and have their assets seized by the state.

The H2-A program is next on the abolition list. The only reason is a sick fuck would justify these programs is because they think our economy would collapse without cheap avocados.

"But line go up with it!"