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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Go To The Ant Thou Sluggard?

Postby Xerographica » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:17 pm

I really hate slugs, because I really love plants. If I set a flat of rare and valuable Hoya seedlings on the ground in the garden, within a week a slug would find it and eat 5% of the seedlings. The next night there would be three or four slugs eating the seedlings. The night after there would be around a dozen slugs. The next night all my precious seedlings would be gone.

How do the slugs converge so quickly on my plants??? The 1st slug to find a large food source naturally wants to be able to find it again the next night. It does so by leaving a trail of slime when it returns home. Then it is able to easily retrace its steps, so to speak. However, if any other slugs happen to stumble upon the same slime trail, they can follow it to the bounty. When they return home they also leave slime trails that are very informative and useful to other hungry slugs. The result is an exponential number of trails pointing to the food.

Slugs are basically 100% honest about their valuation of a food source.

If I was a scientist I'd figure out a way to make slime trails that scream "sooooo much food this way!!!" But the trails would lead to the middle of the street. Guess I’d be the pied piper of slugs.

Do we all agree that the slugs as a whole benefit from being honest with each other in terms of their valuations?

Let’s put our heads together and figure out the relevance to us humans. Imagine some friends go camping…

Following a three-hour time-off-for-personal-exploration period, an excited Sylvia returns to the campsite and announces: “I’ve stumbled upon a huge apple tree, full of perfect apples.” “Great,” others exclaim, “now we can all have apple sauce, and apple pie, and apple strudel!” — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Sylvia could have kept her valuable discovery a secret, and then she would have had all the perfect apples to herself. But if the other group members also kept their own valuable discoveries secret… berries, mushrooms, fish and so on… then they would all be worse off. Here’s the rest of the quote…

“Provided, of course,” so Sylvia rejoins, “that you reduce my labour burden, and/or furnish me with more room in the tent, and/or with more bacon at breakfast.” Her claim to (a kind of) ownership of the tree revolts the others. — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Actually, her ownership of the tree gives her the right to exchange the apples, and this exchange is what forces the others to be honest about their valuations of the apples. All our honest valuations ensure that the correct number of apple trees are planted.

The trick is appreciating that honest valuations are just as important when it comes to brain food… am I right?
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:29 pm

Bro what the fuck is this thread
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:37 pm

Do terrestrial gastropods use olfactory cues to locate and select food actively? - Kiss 2017 wrote:Examples listed above clearly demonstrate and strongly suggest that the food consumed by terrestrial gastropods does not relate exclusively to the available plant species present in the surroundings. Field and laboratory experiments revealed uniformly that most of the terrestrial gastropods have evolved species-specific food preferences and that the selection and locating the preferred food is based on using chemical cues particularly olfaction. How animals develop food preference is not completely understood; however, this behavior has been linked to post digestive effects (satiety or malaise) and their interaction mainly with the senses of taste and smell (Provenza 1995).


Slugs find food through chemotaxis towards plant volatile chemicals, not following each other's slime trails.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dreria
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Dreria » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:47 pm

we should donate money to decide where the slugs should go
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New Andavia
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Andavia » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:50 pm

Yall got me lost. The fuck is this thread lmao

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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:52 pm

Xerographica wrote:I really hate slugs, because I really love plants. If I set a flat of rare and valuable Hoya seedlings on the ground in the garden, within a week a slug would find it and eat 5% of the seedlings. The next night there would be three or four slugs eating the seedlings. The night after there would be around a dozen slugs. The next night all my precious seedlings would be gone.


Can't blame the slugs for this one, you've got to find a better place to store your seedlings than on the ground outside.

Xerographica wrote:How do the slugs converge so quickly on my plants??? The 1st slug to find a large food source naturally wants to be able to find it again the next night. It does so by leaving a trail of slime when it returns home. Then it is able to easily retrace its steps, so to speak. However, if any other slugs happen to stumble upon the same slime trail, they can follow it to the bounty. When they return home they also leave slime trails that are very informative and useful to other hungry slugs. The result is an exponential number of trails pointing to the food.


I don't know much about slugs/snails, admittedly, but a quick Google search and a read of some sources provide no indication that slug/snail trails are used for communication. Rather they're just left behind because these creatures are slimy. The slime is good for allowing them to move more efficiently and - the very helpful part - climb vertical surfaces or even travel on the underside of surfaces.

Slugs do seem to have a sense of smell and can smell things from a few feet away, and do eat about anything digestible in their path.

Xerographica wrote:Slugs are basically 100% honest about their valuation of a food source.


I'm not sure slugs have a concept of honesty or of valuation.

Xerographica wrote:If I was a scientist I'd figure out a way to make slime trails that scream "sooooo much food this way!!!" But the trails would lead to the middle of the street. Guess I’d be the pied piper of slugs.


There are easily ways to protect your garden from slugs, Google is a treasure trove of suggestions.

Xerographica wrote:Do we all agree that the slugs as a whole benefit from being honest with each other in terms of their valuations?


I'm not sure slugs have a concept of honesty or of valuation.

Xerographica wrote:Let’s put our heads together and figure out the relevance to us humans. Imagine some friends go camping…

Following a three-hour time-off-for-personal-exploration period, an excited Sylvia returns to the campsite and announces: “I’ve stumbled upon a huge apple tree, full of perfect apples.” “Great,” others exclaim, “now we can all have apple sauce, and apple pie, and apple strudel!” — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Sylvia could have kept her valuable discovery a secret, and then she would have had all the perfect apples to herself. But if the other group members also kept their own valuable discoveries secret… berries, mushrooms, fish and so on… then they would all be worse off. Here’s the rest of the quote…

“Provided, of course,” so Sylvia rejoins, “that you reduce my labour burden, and/or furnish me with more room in the tent, and/or with more bacon at breakfast.” Her claim to (a kind of) ownership of the tree revolts the others. — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Actually, her ownership of the tree gives her the right to exchange the apples, and this exchange is what forces the others to be honest about their valuations of the apples. All our honest valuations ensure that the correct number of apple trees are planted.


What does this have to do with the slugs mentioned earlier in your post?

Xerographica wrote:The trick is appreciating that honest valuations are just as important when it comes to brain food… am I right?


What are we discussing here? Usually you try to shoehorn some nonsense on the end of these posts claiming the nonsense that preceded it supports the nonsense at the end, but this just reads like a poorly written blog post. It's like you wrote the bit about slugs, pulled Cohen's quote to tell a lil story, and then got bored and typed up a quick line at the end to give the illusion of tying it all together.
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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:53 pm

Dreria wrote:we should donate money to decide where the slugs should go


Unloading my entire savings account on letting the slugs eat Xero's rare seedlings.
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Untecna
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Untecna » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:59 pm

Socialist slugs? What art thou proclaiming?
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Outer Sparta
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:01 pm

What a sluggish thread.
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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:02 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Do terrestrial gastropods use olfactory cues to locate and select food actively? - Kiss 2017 wrote:Examples listed above clearly demonstrate and strongly suggest that the food consumed by terrestrial gastropods does not relate exclusively to the available plant species present in the surroundings. Field and laboratory experiments revealed uniformly that most of the terrestrial gastropods have evolved species-specific food preferences and that the selection and locating the preferred food is based on using chemical cues particularly olfaction. How animals develop food preference is not completely understood; however, this behavior has been linked to post digestive effects (satiety or malaise) and their interaction mainly with the senses of taste and smell (Provenza 1995).


Slugs find food through chemotaxis towards plant volatile chemicals, not following each other's slime trails.

Your facts are inconvenient, so they will be ignored.
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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:11 pm

Xerographica wrote:I really hate slugs, because I really love plants. If I set a flat of rare and valuable Hoya seedlings on the ground in the garden, within a week a slug would find it and eat 5% of the seedlings. The next night there would be three or four slugs eating the seedlings. The night after there would be around a dozen slugs. The next night all my precious seedlings would be gone.

How do the slugs converge so quickly on my plants??? The 1st slug to find a large food source naturally wants to be able to find it again the next night. It does so by leaving a trail of slime when it returns home. Then it is able to easily retrace its steps, so to speak. However, if any other slugs happen to stumble upon the same slime trail, they can follow it to the bounty. When they return home they also leave slime trails that are very informative and useful to other hungry slugs. The result is an exponential number of trails pointing to the food.

Slugs are basically 100% honest about their valuation of a food source.

If I was a scientist I'd figure out a way to make slime trails that scream "sooooo much food this way!!!" But the trails would lead to the middle of the street. Guess I’d be the pied piper of slugs.

Do we all agree that the slugs as a whole benefit from being honest with each other in terms of their valuations?

Let’s put our heads together and figure out the relevance to us humans. Imagine some friends go camping…

Following a three-hour time-off-for-personal-exploration period, an excited Sylvia returns to the campsite and announces: “I’ve stumbled upon a huge apple tree, full of perfect apples.” “Great,” others exclaim, “now we can all have apple sauce, and apple pie, and apple strudel!” — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Sylvia could have kept her valuable discovery a secret, and then she would have had all the perfect apples to herself. But if the other group members also kept their own valuable discoveries secret… berries, mushrooms, fish and so on… then they would all be worse off. Here’s the rest of the quote…

“Provided, of course,” so Sylvia rejoins, “that you reduce my labour burden, and/or furnish me with more room in the tent, and/or with more bacon at breakfast.” Her claim to (a kind of) ownership of the tree revolts the others. — G.A. Cohen, The Socialist’s Guide to Camping

Actually, her ownership of the tree gives her the right to exchange the apples, and this exchange is what forces the others to be honest about their valuations of the apples. All our honest valuations ensure that the correct number of apple trees are planted.

The trick is appreciating that honest valuations are just as important when it comes to brain food… am I right?


Problem solved for you.

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The Two Jerseys
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:12 pm

Kannap wrote:
Dreria wrote:we should donate money to decide where the slugs should go


Unloading my entire savings account on letting the slugs eat Xero's rare seedlings.

Give this man a government grant.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:40 pm

OP: You're anthropomorphizing an animal. That's not a good basis for an argument.


...


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Vikanias
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Postby Vikanias » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:05 pm

Because the slugs are high on cocaine
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:29 pm

Slugs just vibe and cover everything with mucous. Goals honestly.
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Postby Xmara » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:06 pm

If it's that important to you just make a salt circle around your plants
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:09 pm

The French eat them, I think. Have you tried that?
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Rick Perry
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Postby Rick Perry » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:12 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The French eat them, I think. Have you tried that?

That's snail's

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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:15 pm

Rick Perry wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The French eat them, I think. Have you tried that?

That's snail's


What are slugs if not snails without shells
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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:15 pm

The Common or Brown Garden Snail, Cornu aspersum, is an invasive land snail that has successfully colonized a diverse range of global environments. Like other invasive land snails, it is a significant pest of a variety of agricultural crops, including citrus, grapes and canola. Cornu aspersum secretes a mucus trail when mobile that facilitates locomotion. The involvement of the trail in conspecific chemical communication has also been postulated. - Ballard et al, The protein and volatile components of trail mucus in the Common Garden Snail, Cornu aspersum

From the same paper...

This also suggests that the environment and food sources have an effect on the components of mucus.

It stands to reason that the trail of a starving slug will communicate different information than the trail of a stuffed slug.

It also stands to reason that, if there are two groups of slugs, whichever group is better at communicating information about new food sources, would outcompete the other group.

If there are two beehives, whichever hive is better at communicating information about new food sources, will outcompete the other hive. This process, over millions of years, is how bees became good at communicating information about new food sources. Of course beehives are still unequally good at communicating, so the process is ongoing.
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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:16 pm

Xmara wrote:If it's that important to you just make a salt circle around your plants


There are much better ways to slug-proof your garden that don't include using something else that can harm your garden.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Founded: Apr 27, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:19 pm

Kannap wrote:
Xmara wrote:If it's that important to you just make a salt circle around your plants


There are much better ways to slug-proof your garden that don't include using something else that can harm your garden.

Such as?
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"So fill this glass up to the brim, let the toast come early round,
Here's a health to every labouring lad that ploughs and sows the ground;
And when his work is over, his home he will enjoy
Oh how lucky is the girl that weds a bonny labouring boy."
"In dreams, the mead-hall shines, the wine and honey flow;
Then I awake to find myself in frost and hail and wind and snow
This
middangeard, once so bright, now withers and decays;
And I must wait in silence grey for warmer, kinder, happier days."

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Untecna
Minister
 
Posts: 2502
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Untecna » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:21 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Kannap wrote:
There are much better ways to slug-proof your garden that don't include using something else that can harm your garden.

Such as?

A much better way to slug-proof your garden.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Founded: Apr 27, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:22 pm

Untecna wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:Such as?

A much better way to slug-proof your garden.

That's not an answer, is it?
Republic of Northumbria
Bede kinnie — Catgirl appreciator

"So fill this glass up to the brim, let the toast come early round,
Here's a health to every labouring lad that ploughs and sows the ground;
And when his work is over, his home he will enjoy
Oh how lucky is the girl that weds a bonny labouring boy."
"In dreams, the mead-hall shines, the wine and honey flow;
Then I awake to find myself in frost and hail and wind and snow
This
middangeard, once so bright, now withers and decays;
And I must wait in silence grey for warmer, kinder, happier days."

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Untecna
Minister
 
Posts: 2502
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Untecna » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:23 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Untecna wrote:A much better way to slug-proof your garden.

That's not an answer, is it?

Well, more accurately, it's technically the truth.
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