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Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is he guilty or is he not guilty?

Poll ended at Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:09 pm

Guilty of all charges
181
22%
Guilty of some charges
113
14%
Not guilty - self defense
452
55%
Not guilty - other reason
7
1%
Objection! Mistrial or something
13
2%
I don't know or care...
50
6%
 
Total votes : 816

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Gravlen
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Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

Postby Gravlen » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:09 pm

A year after the shootings during the Kenosha unrest, Kyle Rittenhouse is going to trial.

Rittenhouse, now 18, faces five felonies, a misdemeanor and a curfew ticket from the events of Aug. 25, 2020. Using an AR-15-type rifle, he killed Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, Anthony Huber, 26, and wounded Gaige Grosskreutz. His lawyers say he acted in lawful self-defense.

Rittenhouse is also charged with endangering the safety of a reporter for The Daily Caller who was recording from nearby when Rosenbaum was shot and an unidentified man Rittenhouse shot at as the man tried to kick him.


The charges:
  1. First-degree reckless homicide (Rosenbaum)
  2. First-degree intentional homicide, (Huber)
  3. Attempted first-degree intentional reckless homicide (Grosskreutz)
  4. Two counts of first-degree recklessly endangering safety (Endangering McGinnis during the altercation with Rosenbaum and endangering an unknown male before the altercation with Huber)
  5. Possession of a dangerous weapon under the age of 18, a misdemeanor

Here's a thread for the case. And here's the criminal complaint.

Do you think he will be convicted, or will he be acquitted? For my part, I want to hear what comes out at trial before making up my mind and making a call.


Edit: In the end, he was found not guilty on all counts.
Last edited by Gravlen on Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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MountainValley
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Postby MountainValley » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:13 pm

I hope and pray , he is found innocent

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:15 pm

Unless the prosecution has something really good (which I doubt, given the increasing desperation in their motions and arguments, and low key threatening witnesses) he should be acquitted. The evidence is clearly in the defense's corner.

However, I'm led to believe by a criminal defense attorney that any trial has a 10% chance of acquittal or 10% of conviction regardless of facts and evidence, because that's the approximate percentage of "run away" juries we have in the system (which seems exceedingly high).

(Note: The gun charge is a likely conviction if the judge rules it applies. He has said the statutes are unclear and he needed to study it, so.... that's STILL up the air with no time left)
Last edited by Galloism on Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:20 pm

Working only on what I know as a Swedish outsider...

...Convict 'im. I'm open to surprises.
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Rhodesae
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Postby Rhodesae » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:25 pm

MountainValley wrote:I hope and pray , he is found innocent

I respectfully disagree. I wanna hear your reasoning though if you don't mind.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:26 pm

oh this is gonna be a dumpster fire
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:27 pm

Kowani wrote:oh this is gonna be a dumpster fire

The trial?

yes likely. The last hearing was a dumpster fire.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:28 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:oh this is gonna be a dumpster fire

The trial?

yes likely. The last hearing was a dumpster fire.

i meant the thread but yeah the trial too
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Flarbinia
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Postby Flarbinia » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:28 pm

MountainValley wrote:I hope and pray , he is found innocent

Same

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:28 pm

The problem I see is all the people who want to convict him always seem to use false statements they got off social media or the news medias their justification to the point it's like dealing with Trump supporters who claim the 2020 election is rigged.

Where as the people who think he's innocent will summarize the evidence and use the relevant case law for while he's innocent.
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Slaver Pirates of Vaas
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Postby Slaver Pirates of Vaas » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:29 pm

It's possible that the self-defense argument won't work, given that one can't already be committing a crime to have a valid justification for self defense. A burglar can't claim self defense when the homeowner starts shooting at them and they respond by shooting at the homeowner.

Also, he will definitely be convicted of some charges, due to his illegal carry of a firearm (the crime mentioned previously). The question now is will he be convicted of all charges.
Last edited by Slaver Pirates of Vaas on Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Deblar
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Postby Deblar » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:29 pm

As much as I would like to see a repeat of the Chauvin trial where he's guilty on all charges, that probably won't happen here. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice. I do think he'll get convicted on at least one charge though.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:30 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:The trial?

yes likely. The last hearing was a dumpster fire.

i meant the thread but yeah the trial too

Fair.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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The Cazistan
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Postby The Cazistan » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:33 pm

Actually bothered to watch the footage, running up to a guy and trying to grab an AR from him was a pretty stupid move. Don't mean to be morbid but he had it coming, unless there's some sketchy stuff going on behind the scenes he should win his court case.

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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:35 pm

Innocent, innocent, innocent. Kyle Rittenhouse is guilty of nothing. He did nothing wrong, only idiots antagonize and attack people with guns.
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Flarbinia
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Postby Flarbinia » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:35 pm

Deblar wrote:As much as I would like to see a repeat of the Chauvin trial where he's guilty on all charges, that probably won't happen here. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice. I do think he'll get convicted on at least one charge though.

The Chauvin Trial was a mockery of Justice.

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:38 pm

Slaver Pirates of Vaas wrote:It's possible that the self-defense argument won't work, given that one can't already be committing a crime to have a valid justification for self defense. A burglar can't claim self defense when the homeowner starts shooting at them and they respond by shooting at the homeowner.

Also, he will definitely be convicted of some charges, due to his illegal carry of a firearm (the crime mentioned previously). The question now is will he be convicted of all charges.

Except the only crime Kyle could be convicted of is of illegally having a firearm, which as I heard actually doesn't mean you lose the right to self defense.

Even Felons who are legally barred from owning fire arms can claim self defense if they're in fear of their life. If you're a Felony former drug lord and a gang pulls up and starts trying to shoot you, you won't be convicted of murder if you grab one of their guns and shoot back because you still have a right to defend yourself.

Of course being a Felon right afterwards you will face the gun charges for having that gun illegally.
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The Cazistan
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Postby The Cazistan » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:38 pm

Flarbinia wrote:
Deblar wrote:As much as I would like to see a repeat of the Chauvin trial where he's guilty on all charges, that probably won't happen here. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice. I do think he'll get convicted on at least one charge though.

The Chauvin Trial was a mockery of Justice.

The entire jury got doxxed, you can't tell me that was an accident.

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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:43 pm

Flarbinia wrote:
Deblar wrote:As much as I would like to see a repeat of the Chauvin trial where he's guilty on all charges, that probably won't happen here. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice. I do think he'll get convicted on at least one charge though.

The Chauvin Trial was a mockery of Justice.

The Active Riot threatening the Jury if they didn't rule "the right way" alone is grounds for a mistrial. Based on the Judges actions pre trial I think Kyle has a shot at a fair trial. Unless something nuts happens all 3 should be thrown out under self defense. Best they could do is get him on some gun charge but knowing the defense team they would appeal up to SCOTUS that would throw it out thanks to DC v Heller.
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Grinning Dragon
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:43 pm

Flarbinia wrote:
MountainValley wrote:I hope and pray , he is found innocent

Same

To be fair, kyle is already presumed innocent, it's the song and dance of trial theatrics that will determine guilty or not guilty.
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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:45 pm

The Holy Therns wrote:Working only on what I know as a Swedish outsider...

...Convict 'im. I'm open to surprises.

Even under Swedish Law you'd have a hard time finding a conviction.

Chapter 24 of the Swedish criminal code[1] states various conditions for which a person will not be sentenced in court for committing an otherwise criminal act. Self-defense is considered grounds for non-conviction if the accused acted in a situation of peril and acted in a manner that is not "blatantly unjustifiable" in relation to that which is defended.

A situation of peril is stated to exist if:

a person is subjected to, or is in imminent danger of being subjected to, a criminal attack against property or person, or
a person through threats, force or violence is prevented from taking back stolen property found on criminals "red handed", or
an intruder attempts to enter a room, house, estate or ship, or
another person refuses to leave a residence after being told to.

The interpretation of what is to be considered not "blatantly unjustifiable" is popularly expressed in Sweden as "that force which is required by the peril". In other words, the defending party may do whatever it takes so long as no alternative, less severe options are available (except fleeing the immediate area NJA 1969 p425, 1999 p460). The expression "blatantly unjustifiable" allows fairly generous tolerance towards the defending party.


Someone charging you after previously being heard making threatening statement towards you while at the same time a completely unrelated party is firing a gun off is definitely a situation of peril.

As for the other shootings, as he was attempting to flee the immediate area and was prevented from doing so by people attempting to hurt him, the fact that he used the minimum amount of force to end the threat, means that again, under Swedish Law, he's defending himself to escape peril.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
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War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:45 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:
Flarbinia wrote:The Chauvin Trial was a mockery of Justice.

The Active Riot threatening the Jury if they didn't rule "the right way" alone is grounds for a mistrial. Based on the Judges actions pre trial I think Kyle has a shot at a fair trial. Unless something nuts happens all 3 should be thrown out under self defense. Best they could do is get him on some gun charge but knowing the defense team they would appeal up to SCOTUS that would throw it out thanks to DC v Heller.

Very likely it would get tossed at the WI appellate or WI Supreme Court level.

You likely don't get to the constitution before you get it tossed as more likely than not not applicable to this case.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:46 pm

Flarbinia wrote:
Deblar wrote:As much as I would like to see a repeat of the Chauvin trial where he's guilty on all charges, that probably won't happen here. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice. I do think he'll get convicted on at least one charge though.

The Chauvin Trial was a mockery of Justice.

There was so much jury intimidation happening. If they acquitted, they would at best receive death threats and at worst be attacked by rioters outside of the courtroom.
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Shah-Mat
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Postby Shah-Mat » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:46 pm

the twist is that Kyle is a member of ISIS-K
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The Cazistan
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Postby The Cazistan » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:50 pm

Shah-Mat wrote:the twist is that Kyle is a member of ISIS-K


Mashallah, Akhi Rittenhouse is taking the fight to the kuffar.
Last edited by The Cazistan on Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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