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[DRAFT] Preterite Pandect Problems

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Pythaga
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[DRAFT] Preterite Pandect Problems

Postby Pythaga » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:59 pm

I'm not sure if this is any good, but the idea was kicking around so I figured that I might as well write it out and get some opinions.

I tried adding a fourth option that would either get rid of the judiciary or instate devolution, but it always felt really shoehorned so I left it off.

First Draft:
Preterite Pandect Problems

The Issue: The legal code of @@NAME@@, officially titled the "Moste Venerable Canon of Assizes, Droits, and Enactments", is widely considered one of the more difficult to read in @@REGION@@ due to it's archaic vocabulary. This was brought to the attention of the general populous when @@ANIMAL@@ Griddles, a famed survivalist, was arrested for grithbreaching and assarting in the remote @@DEMONYM@@ wilderness. A muster of apoplectic attorneys, bristling burgesses, and confounded constables have transgressed upon your office, shamelessly shouting suggestions.

Validity: Must have judiciary, cannot have devolution, must have computers

Option 1: "Prithee @@LEADER@@, you shan't amend what our progenitors hath wrought," begs Dr. Professor Sir @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, editor-in-chief of the 32-volume @@ANIMAL@@ford Dictionary and noted pedant. "Our unique laws are a fundamental part of @@DEMONYM@@ culture. Don't you agree that petty treason and stoutherie are more couth terms than murder and theft? Think about the heritage and notability we'd loose from such a change!"
Effect: law school admission is determined by spelling bee scores

Option 2: "I'll show that stuck-up what petty treason is," grumbles @@RANDOMNAME@@, a farmer renowned for @@HIS@@ decidedly uncouth language. "Bigwig dirt grubbers in backward places like Bigtopia can apply for a grazing permit, while we @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ need a pannage warrant, whatever the hell that is! Replace this snooty farce with something folks understand, and you won't have so many of these stupid cases." The papyrus scrolls littering your desk are scattered across the room as @@HE@@ storms off, muttering obscenities about everyone present.
Effect: kindergartners are employed by the government as proofreaders

Option 3: "The real issue here is the accessibility of our statutes," argues @@RANDOMNAME@@, @@ANIMAL@@ Griddles' lawyer. "@@NAME@@'s laws are only available in one place, and it really isn't that convenient to go to downtown @@CAPITAL@@ and read them off the Grand Obelisk. Plus, the engravings are rather small. We need to codify and digitize so that legislation can be consulted anytime, anywhere. I assure you, if my client had had access to such a resource, none of this would've happened."
Effect: hacking is now legal according to the newly digitized code of law
Last edited by Pythaga on Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:47 am

Assarting I knew, Grithbreaching I had to look up...

Re option 1: Under RL English law, at least, 'petty treason' was not just a general synonym for 'murder': It applied only to certain types of murders where the killer had been legally under their victim's authority (e.g. wife killed husband, servant killed employer, apprentice killed master).
Last edited by Bears Armed on Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:12 pm

Bears Armed wrote:e.g. wife killed husband
...I don't suppose husbands killing wives counted as treason?

Marriage vows apply to both partners.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:53 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:e.g. wife killed husband
...I don't suppose husbands killing wives counted as treason?

Marriage vows apply to both partners.

But only the wife's vows include[d] obedience. Remember, this is Medieval law -- not modern law -- about which we're talking.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474.

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Pythaga
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Postby Pythaga » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:14 pm

Bears Armed wrote:Re option 1: Under RL English law, at least, 'petty treason' was not just a general synonym for 'murder': It applied only to certain types of murders where the killer had been legally under their victim's authority (e.g. wife killed husband, servant killed employer, apprentice killed master).


Thanks for the pointer, I'll try to come up with a replacement. Any suggestions?

I'd appreciate thoughts from anyone on the last option. I'm really not happy with how it fits into the whole, it comes out of nowhere and is rather unrelated. Also, I don't think that I really did a good job addressing the criminal case that is the context for all this, anyone have suggestions for how to either weave it into the rest of the issue or a different way to set all this up in the description?

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Postby Terrabod » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:06 am

Pythaga wrote:I'd appreciate thoughts from anyone on the last option.

Whereas the last option deals with the physical accessibility of the legal code, the issue itself deals with outdated language - and I think you should stick with the latter theme throughout. The last option is bringing in a new problem that doesn't mesh very well with the rest of the issue.

Pythaga wrote:Also, I don't think that I really did a good job addressing the criminal case that is the context for all this, anyone have suggestions for how to either weave it into the rest of the issue or a different way to set all this up in the description?

Yeah, I'd say the case that fired this whole thing off is forgotten right after it's mentioned. You could try giving the Griddles character a voice and having them argue against these outdated legal terms.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:17 am

officially titled the "Moste Venerable Canon of Assizes, Droits, and Enactments"

I wonder whether this would actually be an encroachment on player autonomy. I mean, I had a different name in mind for the legal code of Daarwyrth, and this sort of already determines that for the player. Whether it is a violation of player autonomy would have to be confirmed by an issue editor or someone with more experience in the field, but my advice would be to leave the specific name out.

Option 3: "The real issue here is the accessibility of our statutes," argues @@RANDOMNAME@@, @@ANIMAL@@ Griddles' lawyer. "@@NAME@@'s laws are only available in one place, and it really isn't that convenient to go to downtown @@CAPITAL@@ and read them off the Grand Obelisk. Plus, the engravings are rather small. We need to codify and digitize so that legislation can be consulted anytime, anywhere. I assure you, if my client had had access to such a resource, none of this would've happened."

I think the idea behind the option itself, namely accessibility, is fine. However, I am not too sure about the execution. This assumes that the player's legal code is written on an obelisk, and I am not sure that makes a lot of sense. My advice would be to reframe the issue, but keep the idea behind it about accessibility.

Interesting issue and nicely written, I am looking forward to see where you'll take this :)
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Pythaga
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Postby Pythaga » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Terrabod

Thanks, I'm working on rewriting now and will consider what you suggested.

Daarwyrth wrote:I wonder whether this would actually be an encroachment on player autonomy. I mean, I had a different name in mind for the legal code of Daarwyrth, and this sort of already determines that for the player. Whether it is a violation of player autonomy would have to be confirmed by an issue editor or someone with more experience in the field, but my advice would be to leave the specific name out.


I don't think it is a violation personally. I'm sure plenty of nations have a list of ministries/departments, but issue authors creating their own ministers isn't an issue; I think this is the same sort of deal. Plus, it's stated that that's the official legal name, in all likelihood the majority of people don't know it and use a far more common and accepted name instead (i.e. whatever the player writes in their factbook). I could try to make this more clear by calling it long forgotten or almost unheard of or something like that.

Daarwyrth wrote:I think the idea behind the option itself, namely accessibility, is fine. However, I am not too sure about the execution. This assumes that the player's legal code is written on an obelisk, and I am not sure that makes a lot of sense. My advice would be to reframe the issue, but keep the idea behind it about accessibility.


It wasn't supposed to make sense, and I suppose having a validity be high primitiveness would've been good. I do agree though that it's too far out there compared to the rest of the issue, I'll scrap the idea for the next draft.

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Terrabod
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Postby Terrabod » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:34 am

Pythaga wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:I wonder whether this would actually be an encroachment on player autonomy. I mean, I had a different name in mind for the legal code of Daarwyrth, and this sort of already determines that for the player. Whether it is a violation of player autonomy would have to be confirmed by an issue editor or someone with more experience in the field, but my advice would be to leave the specific name out.

I don't think it is a violation personally. I'm sure plenty of nations have a list of ministries/departments, but issue authors creating their own ministers isn't an issue; I think this is the same sort of deal. Plus, it's stated that that's the official legal name, in all likelihood the majority of people don't know it and use a far more common and accepted name instead (i.e. whatever the player writes in their factbook). I could try to make this more clear by calling it long forgotten or almost unheard of or something like that.

I agree with you here, Pythaga; issues are always coming up with fictional places and jobs and names for things... like Daar's recent draft naming the mayor of @@CAPITAL@@ as John Borison! Or my own draft, where I assume as a starting point that women going topless is prohibited in @@NAME@@ at the moment - even though in some nations' headcanons that won't be the case. Making these kind of assumptions is part-and-parcel of issue writing, and readers are free to accept and ignore whatever they want when forming their own lore (I know I do a lot of ignoring!).
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Random Country 453632
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Postby Random Country 453632 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:37 pm

It seems that Option 3 is the only part about computers, so why is it the issue validity that needs computers but not just the option validity?
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:07 am

Hey, this is quite good.

If I sound surprised by this, its because I just went through a HUGE submissions backlog queue with nearly a hundred bad issues in a row.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people


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