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[DRAFT] Spitting Feathers

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Bears Armed
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[DRAFT] Spitting Feathers

Postby Bears Armed » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:51 pm

Yes, this draft is still at a very basic stage. I'm posting it now because this idea actually arose in another thread, and if the Mods decide to split the relevant posts off from there then I wanted this thread to be already extant as a suitable destination for them.

[Title] Spitting Feathers
[Validity] Homosexuality is legal; television is legal [if that is a potential validity factor?)[/i]

[Description] A group calling itself 'Gays Really Irritated Media-wise' (or 'GRIM' for short) has launched a protest outside the Ministry of Culture, complaining about the stereotyped way in which gay men are commonly portrayed in the nation's films and television dramas.

[Option 1] "It isn't right," proclaims GRIM spokesman RANDOMMALENAME, who recently retired from service as a Master Sergeant in the Special Forces. "Almost every time the film-makers or programme-makers identify a male character in one of their productions as gay, except sometimes when they're telling dramatized stories about real people, they use the same sort of traits -- like wearing feather boas or heavy make-up, or speech patters that use lots of innuendos -- to indicate the fact. It's more than time that they recognised some of us are actually manly men who just happen to be attracted to other men rather than to women and who don't conform to that pattern."

[Validity1] Nation has military

[Effect 1] (not yet written)

[Option 2] "It isn't right," proclaims GRIM spokesman RANDOMMALENAME, who manages a Wilderness Adventure Holidays operation. "Almost every time the film-makers or programme-makers identify a male character in one of their productions as gay, except sometimes when they're telling dramatized stories about real people, they use the same sort of traits -- like wearing feather boas or heavy make-up, or speech patters that use lots of innuendos -- to indicate the fact. It's more than time that they recognised some of us are actually manly men who just happen to be attracted to other men rather than to women and who don't conform to that pattern."

[Validity 2] Nation does not have military

[Effect 2] (identical to Effect 1)

[Option 3] (not yet written: Film or TV producer insists that stereotypes have to be used because that's what most of the audience expects and it helps them to differentiate more easily between the characters_ mentions several other examples [one of them an ethnic stereotype; one is that 'independent' scientists are mad, or at least highly eccentric; another =?) as well...)

[Validity 3] unrestricted

[Effect 3] (not yet written)


Note: Options 1 & 2 are identical except for Validity & the speaker's stated occupation.
Original title was 'GRIM-ly Gay'.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
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Terrabod
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Postby Terrabod » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 pm

I know this will disrupt the posting order if our other posts are moved here, but I couldn't wait.

Title suggestion: "Spitting Feathers" (reference to both rage and feather boas)

You could avoid the validity issue by changing speaker 1 to an ex-chief of police or similar. He can stay gruff, but you don't need two near-identical options.

I'd like to see an option with an ignorant [right-winger] insisting the stereotypes are correct, because the only gay people they've seen are the ones walking down the street wearing feather boas (this idea, prominent in RL, is that all gay men are very feminine because those are the ones you can spot - a sort of sampling bias). Not sure what the outcome of that would be, policy-wise. This character could mention some of the other stereotypes you mentioned, like they actually believe that scientists must look Einstein-ish or whatever.

The producer idea is also interesting. As far as I know, the feminine stereotype is overused in film and TV as a result of either (1) the executives not knowing what gay people are like in the real world (see above about sampling bias) or (2) the executives want to tell the heterosexual audience that a character is gay without having to instead show them having meaningful same-sex romantic relationships (gross) or even sex (revolting) even though the heterosexual couples are Game-of-Thronesing it up twice every episode.
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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:38 pm

Terrabod wrote:I know this will disrupt the posting order if our other posts are moved here, but I couldn't wait.

Title suggestion: "Spitting Feathers" (reference to both rage and feather boas)
Good idea. I'll change it.

Terrabod wrote:You could avoid the validity issue by changing speaker 1 to an ex-chief of police or similar. He can stay gruff, but you don't need two near-identical options.
I'll think about this, but how well would it work for nations that don't have police? I know that Editors in the past have said that 'Police Chiefs' of some sort can be presumed anyway, but I'd rather not confuse the players of police-less nations...

Terrabod wrote:I'd like to see an option with an ignorant [right-winger] insisting the stereotypes are correct, because the only gay people they've seen are the ones walking down the street wearing feather boas (this idea, prominent in RL, is that all gay men are very feminine because those are the ones you can spot - a sort of sampling bias). Not sure what the outcome of that would be, policy-wise. This character could mention some of the other stereotypes you mentioned, like they actually believe that scientists must look Einstein-ish or whatever.

The producer idea is also interesting. As far as I know, the feminine stereotype is overused in film and TV as a result of either (1) the executives not knowing what gay people are like in the real world (see above about sampling bias) or (2) the executives want to tell the heterosexual audience that a character is gay without having to instead show them having meaningful same-sex romantic relationships (gross) or even sex (revolting) even though the heterosexual couples are Game-of-Thronesing it up twice every episode.

Some interesting thoughts there... but one of the stereotypes to which I object is the ignorant characters so often being described as right-wingers. How about an ignorant character whose political views aren't implied -- let alone specified -- or even a left-wing one, instead, for a change?
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474.

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Terrabod
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Postby Terrabod » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:13 pm

Bears Armed wrote:Some interesting thoughts there... but one of the stereotypes to which I object is the ignorant characters so often being described as right-wingers. How about an ignorant character whose political views aren't implied -- let alone specified -- or even a left-wing one, instead, for a change?

I just based that on my own lived experience as a member of the LGBT+ community, but it's your issue. The "right-wing" thing was in square brackets for a reason, anyway - it's nothing more than a suggestion within a suggestion.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:27 am

Terrabod wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:Some interesting thoughts there... but one of the stereotypes to which I object is the ignorant characters so often being described as right-wingers. How about an ignorant character whose political views aren't implied -- let alone specified -- or even a left-wing one, instead, for a change?

I just based that on my own lived experience as a member of the LGBT+ community, but it's your issue. The "right-wing" thing was in square brackets for a reason, anyway - it's nothing more than a suggestion within a suggestion.

As a fellow member of the LGBTQ+ community, usually any bias or bigotry I faced was either from a "right-winger" or a religious person, and most often a combination of both. So I can understand the tendency to want to depict intolerant people like that.

Yet if you want to break with stereotypes in this draft you could go for an intolerant radical left-winger perhaps? I mean, even though I rarely if ever encounter those, they have to be around. Or someone who is a fierce supporter of evolution and opposes same sex relationships because of that.
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Bears Armed
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Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:27 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Terrabod wrote:I just based that on my own lived experience as a member of the LGBT+ community, but it's your issue. The "right-wing" thing was in square brackets for a reason, anyway - it's nothing more than a suggestion within a suggestion.

As a fellow member of the LGBTQ+ community, usually any bias or bigotry I faced was either from a "right-winger" or a religious person, and most often a combination of both. So I can understand the tendency to want to depict intolerant people like that.

Yet if you want to break with stereotypes in this draft you could go for an intolerant radical left-winger perhaps? I mean, even though I rarely if ever encounter those, they have to be around. Or someone who is a fierce supporter of evolution and opposes same sex relationships because of that.

n England, apart from perhaps the [relatively scarce] far-right, that hostility is mostly a religious matter... and the largest group of fundamentalist followers of any Abrahamic religion here nowadays is probably among the country's Muslim community, who have been generally more likely (on average] to vote Labour rather than Conservative...
I'll think further about this.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474.

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:05 am

You should trim the writing on those first two options, as it scans better without this phrase: "rather than to women and who don't conform to that pattern." Just bring the end of the quotation in more, like this:
"It isn't right," proclaims GRIM spokesman RANDOMMALENAME, who recently retired from service as a Master Sergeant in the Special Forces. "Almost every time the film-makers or programme-makers identify a male character in one of their productions as gay, except sometimes when they're telling dramatized stories about real people, they use the same sort of traits -- like wearing feather boas or heavy make-up, or speech patters that use lots of innuendos -- to indicate the fact. It's more than time that they recognised some of us are actually manly men who just happen to be attracted to other men."

I have furthermore a question about this. What policy change is being requested here? What should actually be done differently in the nations that pick this option?

P.S. I don't know if this is a reasonable request, but please send me a telegram if further input from me is requested. I've tried to post two issue ideas to the forum, but I'm almost too scared of the forum to participate at all. :geek:
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Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.


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