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Buttons / Ribbons / Stamps / Coins

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Unibot III
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Buttons / Ribbons / Stamps / Coins

Postby Unibot III » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:37 pm

Currently the Cards market is for Trading Cards only - the idea I’m proposing would be to include buttons, ribbons, coins, and stamps — and expand the “market” into a general Trading Market.

Why?

Personally I think it helps to connect the Trading Market to NationStates as a political simulator. Politics generates a lot of campaign buttons, trinkets, & commemorative coins.

I would foresee buttons / ribbons / coins / stamps as being player-generated.

A player could issue buttons (perhaps as a token of appreciation to electoral supporters), ribbons (perhaps for GP missions), coins & stamps as regional commemorative items…

Players would submit an image, title, and description - and the more of those items they wanted to “produce” the higher the cost in terms of Card money.

0.01 - Stamp
0.10 - Coin
0.20 - Button
0.30 - Ribbon

You’d then be able to gift the collectibles to folks and the collectibles could be traded & sold on the market just like cards are…

Dates of production would be important to prevent fraud via re-releases or faux releases. The junk value would be equal to the original production value.

(Signed, a RL political memorabilia freak.)
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:05 pm

I like this idea. I can picture defenders trying to collect the commemorative feathers that TBH awards for raids.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:13 pm

All Wild Things wrote:I like this idea. I can picture defenders trying to collect the commemorative feathers that TBH awards for raids.


I was foreseeing some players might even get involved with GP just for the easy access to high valued collectibles. :p

UDL, back in the day, issued military badges for major liberations.
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Archinstinct
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Postby Archinstinct » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Full support. A wonderful idea Unibot!

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The Church of Satan
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Postby The Church of Satan » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:05 pm

I like this. I really miss the whole "awarding pins" thing in R/D.

For coins, would they have a basic format, such as a thick border (gold, silver, and bronze) around the outer edge to simulate the indentation from having the design pressed onto the coin, or would it just be any image that's round? Because having a border I think would make it look better in general.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:14 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:I like this. I really miss the whole "awarding pins" thing in R/D.

For coins, would they have a basic format, such as a thick border (gold, silver, and bronze) around the outer edge to simulate the indentation from having the design pressed onto the coin, or would it just be any image that's round? Because having a border I think would make it look better in general.


My idea is that your images would be squeezed into a template like these…

Image

Image

Image

Image


So players would have to make their own metallic designs for coins .. and could develop their own variations (silver, gold, copper, cobalt, red chrome!).

Inherently I think *good* graphics work would have higher market value. So I could see a talented player (Jenrak for instances) being able to put their designs on to stamps and getting good returns in circulation.
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kharao
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Postby Kharao » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:24 pm

I like this idea a whole lot, and I've a couple ideas to throw into the mix. First, perhaps there could be some such items generated by NS itself for various things, such as each N-day and Z-day or maybe the site's twentieth next year for example. Maybe these could be available for free but each nation in existence at the time only gets one so they become of some value or something. Second, should any nation with these items cease to exist, perhaps their items could go on sale at some sort of central market connected to everyone's trading page. I really do love this premise and hope something comes out of it.
Last edited by Kharao on Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doge Land
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Postby Doge Land » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:32 pm

Ooooo, this sounds fun.

Kharao wrote:I like this idea a whole lot, and I've a couple ideas to throw into the mix. First, perhaps there could be some such items generated by NS itself for various things, such as each N-day and Z-day or maybe the site's twentieth next year for example. Maybe these could be available for free but each nation in existence at the time only gets one so they become of some value or something. Second, should any nation with these items cease to exist, perhaps their items could go on sale at some sort of central market connected to everyone's trading page. I really do love this premise and hope something comes out of it.


I like this idea. Would get a lot of people more interested into trading... and maybe even cards? It would add a lot of diversity.

Hopefully admin looks at this.
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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:44 pm

Kharao wrote:. Second, should any nation with these items cease to exist, perhaps their items could go on sale at some sort of central market connected to everyone's trading page. I really do love this premise and hope something comes out of it.

Please no.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:09 pm

Kharao wrote:I like this idea a whole lot, and I've a couple ideas to throw into the mix. First, perhaps there could be some such items generated by NS itself for various things, such as each N-day and Z-day or maybe the site's twentieth next year for example. Maybe these could be available for free but each nation in existence at the time only gets one so they become of some value or something. Second, should any nation with these items cease to exist, perhaps their items could go on sale at some sort of central market connected to everyone's trading page. I really do love this premise and hope something comes out of it.


Thanks!! I’m excited by the idea, yes.

Although I don’t think it would be fair to players for them to lose their collectibles (which might be hard earned, or personally important to them) if they CTE. And many players make use of log-in scripts, so I don’t like the inequity of some players using scripts to preserve their collectibles and other players losing them to the sands of time.

In terms of whether some share of all collectibles should be added directly to circulation to be discovered… I think that depends on what kind of organic circulation between trades are to be expected? If we think that these collectibles will be hoarded by their original owners too much, then you might want to have some go directly into circulation. However I would think if there’s demand for these collectibles, and the owners are hoarding, that the owners will be tempted by the increasingly high value for the collectibles.

I’d like to hear what people experienced in card-collecting think?

Would these collectibles be sought after? Would it be a positive addition to how you play the game? Do you think they’d be valued too high, pricing most players out, or too low?
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Toerana » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:00 am

I think the idea is great, Unibot, although I am hesitant to support tying this to the cards mini game, at least until its existing problems are thoroughly dealt with.

I am also, obviously, against when nations CTE having their belongings folded into a central market, that isn't and shouldn't be done with cards and there is literally no reason to rob people of hard work.


Detailed customisation for this, such as uploading specific logos would be amazing and allow for a really detailed and rewarding approach for regional programs, (Think "Keepers of the North" actually getting a badge) and hopefully encourage activity in game instead of continuing the trend to offsite forums where greater customisation is easier.

Alongside this, being able to display these badges on nations would be amazing.

Unfortunately, the really cool aspects that could come with this are probably unrealistic (something to do with an obsession with 10 yr old forum software), but it's always fun to daydream.

Another fab idea Unibot!
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:33 am

Toerana wrote:Another fab idea Unibot!


Thanks man! :)

In terms of why I'd like to see the collectibles included in the trading market, I think it would bring value to the collectibles because you're no longer just receiving a token of appreciation, you'd also be receiving a token that will appreciate in a value and could be sold on the market for other cool tokens or cards in years to come.

I also think it would help tie the market to NS itself, because (1) buttons / coins / stamps / ribbons are inherently political and it makes sense they would be trading commodities on a market in a political simulation, (2) gameplayers (and roleplayers I think too - many of whom are superb artists & creatives), will see a direct line between what they're doing and what the market can do for them - regional card guilds will become an important resource for regions that want to finance the production of coins, badges, and stamps - a "Minister of Cards" would effectively become your "Minister of Finance" in that the health of your region's market portfolio would impact regional culture and orientation.

Not only do I think existing regional programs would be able to adopt collectibles and use them for their purposes, but I also think the collectibles would inspire a full new generation of regional programs because there was always something lacking in the old regional programs in that there was a dearth of clear incentives to offer. I could see it playing a pretty foundational role for regional culture and intergration going forward. Not only would you be able to offer an incentive, but you'd also be able to offer an incentive (as you've noted) that itself is regionally branded: a cultural artifact that builds on the region's identity and sense of self.

I'd forsee the collectibles being used as propaganda tools in authoritarian regions, pumping out coins and stamps ad nauseum in recognition of service. In democracies, I'd forsee campaign buttons being hot items - a way of marketing your candidate - and I think regions would have to reckon with whether campaign finance and anti-kickback laws are necessary.

Toerana wrote:Alongside this, being able to display these badges on nations would be amazing.


Yes, I was thinking about this. Ribbons/badges in particular might look less cluttery than the stamps / coins / buttons would. However, players might collect hundreds of ribbons though ... so, probably would require a hard limit for functionality if they were to implement this and allow players to pin ribbons to their nation page.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Haganham » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:35 am

Unibot III wrote:Not only do I think existing regional programs would be able to adopt collectibles and use them for their purposes, but I also think the collectibles would inspire a full new generation of regional programs because there was always something lacking in the old regional programs in that there was a dearth of clear incentives to offer.

Yhat would actually be very possible for palatine. Currently we offer award for various activities and contributions, but it's a pain to track as officers have to report to the herald when someone's earned an award, and the herald has to maintain a load of charts of what awards everyone has and their prestige value. With this officers could just stamp out ribbons for each award and give them out to those who earned them, then people could just bug the herald for promotions when they collect enough.
Last edited by Haganham on Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:51 am

Haganham wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Not only do I think existing regional programs would be able to adopt collectibles and use them for their purposes, but I also think the collectibles would inspire a full new generation of regional programs because there was always something lacking in the old regional programs in that there was a dearth of clear incentives to offer.

Yhat would actually be very possible for palatine. Currently we offer award for various activities and contributions, but it's a pain to track as officers have to report to the herald when someone's earned an award, and the herald has to maintain a load of charts of what awards everyone has and their prestige value. With this officers could just stamp out ribbons for each award and give them out to those who earned them, then people could just bug the herald for promotions when they collect enough.


Yes, you’ve got the idea. I wonder how many other regions would launch cultural programs mostly inspired by the fact they’d now easily have a carrot/incentive to offer to their own residents?
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Postby Fauzjhia » Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:19 am

the ability to allow players to create their own little collectibles could be interesting, but it should be limited.
it could limited to certain regions for example.

because otherwise. there is a big puppet trap in front of us.
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Postby Apatosaurus » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:10 am

Unibot III wrote:Currently the Cards market is for Trading Cards only - the idea I’m proposing would be to include buttons, ribbons, coins, and stamps — and expand the “market” into a general Trading Market.

Why?

Personally I think it helps to connect the Trading Market to NationStates as a political simulator. Politics generates a lot of campaign buttons, trinkets, & commemorative coins.

I would foresee buttons / ribbons / coins / stamps as being player-generated.

A player could issue buttons (perhaps as a token of appreciation to electoral supporters), ribbons (perhaps for GP missions), coins & stamps as regional commemorative items…

Players would submit an image, title, and description - and the more of those items they wanted to “produce” the higher the cost in terms of Card money.

0.01 - Stamp
0.10 - Coin
0.20 - Button
0.30 - Ribbon

You’d then be able to gift the collectibles to folks and the collectibles could be traded & sold on the market just like cards are…

Dates of production would be important to prevent fraud via re-releases or faux releases. The junk value would be equal to the original production value.

(Signed, a RL political memorabilia freak.)

This is actually a nice idea! That said, I'm not really a fan of "stamp" and "button"; I think what would be more interesting would be different types of coins and then the lowest, might be, say, tokens; then instead of coins it's bronze coins, instead of buttons it's silver coins and instead of ribbons it's gold coins? Something like that.
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Postby Hagston » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:52 am

Just gonna bump this. Great idea!
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Postby Free Ravensburg » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:59 am

Why not have one with the worth of 1.00? I would call it the note
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:10 pm

Free Ravensburg wrote:Why not have one with the worth of 1.00? I would call it the note


I do like the idea of a bank note being a high priced commodity.

Bank notes are very pretty and from a graphic design standpoint, they're a creative and technical challenge. I suspect a lot of budding NS artists would dive into it and produce some amazing content.

* * *

The pricing that I've put in the OP were made up on a whim based off RL prices, I suspect they may be too high for the usership-at-large for circulation. I was hoping that people more familiar with the card market and the size of the average wallet would pick part the pricing and suggest alternatives if needed...

There is a balance that needs to be struck, in that it can't be too high to price out the average player or small region/community from producing their own collectibles, but it can't be too low that the market is just flooded with crap.

Thinking about it, I suspect ribbons should be cheaper than buttons because armies will have a lot of more ribbons to produce in a year (75-150 ribbons?) than candidates will with general/special elections (40 buttons?).

A GP army like the Grey Wardens would be burning maybe $60+ of card money to produce ribbons for soldiers - that doesn't sound sustainable to me - but I also have never collected avidly enough to build up much of a wallet or portfolio. In comparison, a campaign would be spending about $8 a year in card money to produce buttons for their campaign (which seems managable?).

This strikes me as a good place to begin to formulate the kind of cost that would fit the needs of NSers: like how many missions are being conducted in a year? How many participants are there? How many elections? How many voters? How many residents does a regional endorsement program typically contact in a year? What kind of total collectible budget seems reasonably sustainable and attainable for communities?

Hagston wrote:Just gonna bump this. Great idea!


You're sweet, thank you!

Apatosaurus wrote:This is actually a nice idea! That said, I'm not really a fan of "stamp" and "button"; I think what would be more interesting would be different types of coins and then the lowest, might be, say, tokens; then instead of coins it's bronze coins, instead of buttons it's silver coins and instead of ribbons it's gold coins? Something like that.


The idea was that buttons would tie in with NS political campaigns and ribbons would tie in with NS military missions and military gameplay culture.

I proposed the "stamp" as a low cost alternative because I suspected there would be NS artists who would use the “canvas” of a stamp to share their art in-game (in my day, a long time ago, I’d expect AMOM & Jenrak to do so, for instance.) The coin design would be open to how ever its designers approached it — they might use a silver, gold or other texture.

I could see the usefulness of having a “token” option, smaller than a coin, that would be cheaper to produce and could be put into wider circulation like stamps as a part of regional engagement programs and any kind of regional currency initiative.

A few tangential thoughts …
  • I think what you'd see is collectors would naturally come to specialize in various kinds of collectibles. Some would be purists and continue to focus on cards only, others might have an eye for coins or buttons or stamps.
  • I’d expect NS artists and the Card community to form linkages overtime. The same has happened over time in roleplay and GP circles when graphic skills are needed.
  • Buttons & stamps are the most creatively ‘open’ collectibles in the sense you can do almost whatever you want with them. Coins are limited creatively to some extent by the medium - you have to use an engraving filter of some sort to make the graphic look like something like a coin.

Fauzjhia wrote:the ability to allow players to create their own little collectibles could be interesting, but it should be limited.
it could limited to certain regions for example.

because otherwise. there is a big puppet trap in front of us.


Not sure I fully understand this point in terms of a puppet trap, however one thing I will say is I think that the cost of production will play an important role too in limiting production.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Apatosaurus
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Postby Apatosaurus » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:22 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Apatosaurus wrote:This is actually a nice idea! That said, I'm not really a fan of "stamp" and "button"; I think what would be more interesting would be different types of coins and then the lowest, might be, say, tokens; then instead of coins it's bronze coins, instead of buttons it's silver coins and instead of ribbons it's gold coins? Something like that.


The idea was that buttons would tie in with NS political campaigns and ribbons would tie in with NS military missions and military gameplay culture.

I proposed the "stamp" as a low cost alternative because I suspected there would be NS artists who would use the “canvas” of a stamp to share their art in-game (in my day, a long time ago, I’d expect AMOM & Jenrak to do so, for instance.) The coin design would be open to how ever its designers approached it — they might use a silver, gold or other texture.

I could see the usefulness of having a “token” option, smaller than a coin, that would be cheaper to produce and could be put into wider circulation like stamps as a part of regional engagement programs and any kind of regional currency initiative.

A few tangential thoughts …
  • I think what you'd see is collectors would naturally come to specialize in various kinds of collectibles. Some would be purists and continue to focus on cards only, others might have an eye for coins or buttons or stamps.
  • I’d expect NS artists and the Card community to form linkages overtime. The same has happened over time in roleplay and GP circles when graphic skills are needed.
  • Buttons & stamps are the most creatively ‘open’ collectibles in the sense you can do almost whatever you want with them. Coins are limited creatively to some extent by the medium - you have to use an engraving filter of some sort to make the graphic look like something like a coin.

Hmm, okay, but I'm still not really a fan of buttons and stamps.
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Unibot III
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Posts: 6429
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:08 am

Apatosaurus wrote:Hmm, okay, but I'm still not really a fan of buttons and stamps.


I may be biased too in that I love collecting political buttons. :p
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